Anonymous wrote:FWIW, my friend and her husband have three kids. Husband is a doctor/Ivy grad.

All three kids are high achievers.

Their first two kids went to Ivies (one to Dad's and one to a different one). #1 wanted to do IB and is doing that. #2 science research, now in grad school.

#3 wants to be a doctor like Dad. She goes to a regional public university where she can be a stand out student, get involved in research early, leader in medical -related clubs. It's also in her hometown so she can keep working at her dad's medical office and/or the local hospital. She could have gone to a T30 school and parents would have paid for it but dad advised this path was better for her goals. She's loving college and still pre-med.

Visit the schools she has available and really look at the opportunities. For example , when you visit Towson, schedule a meeting with their undergrad research program - https://www.towson.edu/fcsm/departments/stem/turep/

Dad was likely quite aware that her scores or personality were not likely to lead to being a top-quartile kid at the T30. We would advise the same for one of ours if they were to want premed. For the other two, they have the chops, stats and mindset, to stand out anywhere and are doing just that at different T10/ivy, and we encouraged the tougher environment because it opens the door wider for the very top MD-phD and MD programs. The advice should never be generalized, it should fit your unique kid to maximize their potential! Only OP knows what fits their student; from their description Towson may not be a fit.

Anonymous wrote:Op did you attend college? If so, did you have Pell grants? I’ve discovered that many families use their own 25 year old lens when dealing with the realities of financial aid. There have been several changes and even single parents with moderate incomes qualify for very little aid. The loans they offer to cover the gap do not come cheap. I know someone in their late forties still paying off medical school. With the influx of foreign money and families to the US the competition is even more brutal. Get very serious about four year outcomes when guiding your DC, this is the equivalent of a mortgage without the benefit of a 30 year runway.

MD, we know one or two, but they are rare. The rest of us all paid off within 15 years, many of us with double loans/300k or more (in 2002 dollars) due to MD spouse. We have nice houses and afford private K-12 in the DMV. Most of us had no help from parents as many were pell grant kids ourselves, or have families overseas. If a doctor is in their late 40s and has not paid off med school, they have completely mismanaged their money. Full stop.
Even the lowest paid specialties get 250k a year for full time, and they were over 200k fifteen years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the OP’s daughter didn’t score well on the SAT (1500+ at a minimum), med school is not likely to happen. It just isn’t. I know people don’t want to hear that, but it is a pretty accurate proxy for college GPA. GPA and test scores need to be almost perfect for med school.

I just don’t think this is true. Where are you getting this magic 1500+ number? I have some close friends from undergrad who are practicing doctors who definitely did not have that high of an SAT score. I even remember one of them saying they barely squeaked into our undergrad school because their SAT was on the lower end of our school’s range, and now they’re an MD/PhD! You definitely have to be smart enough to score reasonably well on standardized exams but that 1500 line is pulled out of thin air.

DP. Partly concur.
I work in med admissions consulting, was on a top5 med school admissions committee, have a spouse who served recently on a T50 committee. I am a physician as are almost all of my adult friends. Many of us have current premeds of our own and we have advised hundreds.
The SAT needed 15 years ago(ie when the newly minted Residency grads were juniors high school) is irrelevant to now just as my top-1% SAT 37 years ago was not anywhere near 1500 but at the time correlated to my high MCAT score. My ivy did predicted score brackets based on SAT and GPA and once you had your score they gave you a list of med schools to apply to. It does not work that way anymore, premeds can apply wherever they want, but there is information available provided by the ivy and other schools, for those that want to dig in to the data.
As a consultant the past 5 med cycles there is an SAT correlation. SAT scores of around 1440 without extra time correlates to being highly likely to achieve a 510+, the floor score needed to get into the lower to mid ranked MD programs. 1530+ single sitting/no extra time correlates to being able to get 520+, the general target score for applicants who want T20 med and are chasing top merit. Yes, there are students who seemed to get in to top undergrads with lower scores or TO, mid-1400s, who have had to work hard to keep up but have gotten into at least one MD program. There are also students with 1500-ish who should easily be able to perform well compared to peers yet they have poor study habits and it all falls apart in college. The student's drive and discipline matter just as much as SAT, though there is a certain minimum level needed. 1300s SAT with all the drive in the world is going to struggle to get above 500 on the MCAT even after many tries. Med school will not happen unless they choose to go to the Caribbean.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:240k will provide plenty for the kids target
I dont understand this whiny post.
Your kid is way better off than most!

240 is 60k a year. Kid can work summers and parents can find another 10-20 from their income. Done.

💯
And then aren’t there some med school public service loan forgiveness programs if you work for national health corps needs straight out of school?

Op did you attend college? If so, did you have Pell grants? I’ve discovered that many families use their own 25 year old lens when dealing with the realities of financial aid. There have been several changes and even single parents with moderate incomes qualify for very little aid. The loans they offer to cover the gap do not come cheap. I know someone in their late forties still paying off medical school. With the influx of foreign money and families to the US the competition is even more brutal. Get very serious about four year outcomes when guiding your DC, this is the equivalent of a mortgage without the benefit of a 30 year runway.

Anonymous wrote:240k will provide plenty for the kids target
I dont understand this whiny post.
Your kid is way better off than most!

240 is 60k a year. Kid can work summers and parents can find another 10-20 from their income. Done.

Anonymous wrote:This has been hard. My child has gotten into their safeties (Towson/Salisbury) which they are NOT enthusiastic about. They have also gotten into some of their reach/target schools. Unfortunately, those schools so far are around 60k per year with merit (child has 4.8 gpa). Financial aid is minimal. I don't have an amazing salary, but child has substantial college savings because of extenuating circumstances (not enough to cover 240k though). They go to a decent high school in Montgomery County, and it is sad for them to see their classmates commit to schools they cannot commit to. How do you help your child handle going to a safety so they can graduate college without debt? My child is so disappointed to have to go to school with peers who didn't grind like them and sacrifice time. But they/we just aren't willing or able to pay 50k PLUS per year. They want to go to med school after college as well, so the price of undergrad really matters. Please tell me your stories of going to a safety bc of money and kid thriving.

-the majority of medical schools in the top 50 have merit money, and about 1/3 have need based aid, making them overall cheaper on average than PA or stem-masters programs, with double the salary over PA and triple what you can find with a typical stem masters.

-your student will be much more likely to get into med school in the first place if they go to a school where a significant portion gets into med school every year. This could be Case or could be an ivy, but should be the highest-level school they can succeed in, with a medical school on or near campus. Towson and the like do not have many students of the caliber to be serious applicants to medical school. Yours will not fit in to the culture based on your description.

Anonymous wrote:If the OP’s daughter didn’t score well on the SAT (1500+ at a minimum), med school is not likely to happen. It just isn’t. I know people don’t want to hear that, but it is a pretty accurate proxy for college GPA. GPA and test scores need to be almost perfect for med school.

I just don’t think this is true. Where are you getting this magic 1500+ number? I have some close friends from undergrad who are practicing doctors who definitely did not have that high of an SAT score. I even remember one of them saying they barely squeaked into our undergrad school because their SAT was on the lower end of our school’s range, and now they’re an MD/PhD! You definitely have to be smart enough to score reasonably well on standardized exams but that 1500 line is pulled out of thin air.

If the OP’s daughter didn’t score well on the SAT (1500+ at a minimum), med school is not likely to happen. It just isn’t. I know people don’t want to hear that, but it is a pretty accurate proxy for college GPA. GPA and test scores need to be almost perfect for med school.

Anonymous wrote:How committed is your kid to med school? Every other high achiever starts off as premed.

If not 100% in, go to the best undergrad.

If 100% in, go to Towson, excel and take advantage of external local internship opportunities (Hopkins, NIH, etc).

This is solid advice. There are so many Baltimore area internship and voluteer opportunities in medicine. JHU, UMD school of medicine. This is your kid's opportunity to shine as a big fish in a smaller pond, have a less stressful academic experience, have time to study for the MCAT and participate in internships. Time to talk up all the positives of the situation.

FWIW, my friend and her husband have three kids. Husband is a doctor/Ivy grad.

All three kids are high achievers.

Their first two kids went to Ivies (one to Dad's and one to a different one). #1 wanted to do IB and is doing that. #2 science research, now in grad school.

#3 wants to be a doctor like Dad. She goes to a regional public university where she can be a stand out student, get involved in research early, leader in medical -related clubs. It's also in her hometown so she can keep working at her dad's medical office and/or the local hospital. She could have gone to a T30 school and parents would have paid for it but dad advised this path was better for her goals. She's loving college and still pre-med.

Visit the schools she has available and really look at the opportunities. For example , when you visit Towson, schedule a meeting with their undergrad research program - https://www.towson.edu/fcsm/departments/stem/turep/

How committed is your kid to med school? Every other high achiever starts off as premed.

If not 100% in, go to the best undergrad.

If 100% in, go to Towson, excel and take advantage of external local internship opportunities (Hopkins, NIH, etc).

Anonymous wrote:This has been hard. My child has gotten into their safeties (Towson/Salisbury) which they are NOT enthusiastic about. They have also gotten into some of their reach/target schools. Unfortunately, those schools so far are around 60k per year with merit (child has 4.8 gpa). Financial aid is minimal. I don't have an amazing salary, but child has substantial college savings because of extenuating circumstances (not enough to cover 240k though). They go to a decent high school in Montgomery County, and it is sad for them to see their classmates commit to schools they cannot commit to. How do you help your child handle going to a safety so they can graduate college without debt? My child is so disappointed to have to go to school with peers who didn't grind like them and sacrifice time. But they/we just aren't willing or able to pay 50k PLUS per year. They want to go to med school after college as well, so the price of undergrad really matters. Please tell me your stories of going to a safety bc of money and kid thriving.

Start searching external scholarships and have them apply to 10-15 scholarships (small amount caps) to piece together the $60k. Usually the personal essay written for college works as a submission and transcripts and testing can be provided. For most scholarships, that is all you need for application. If you started today, you'd probably be able to add another $20-$30k in scholarship money to whatever amount the schools provided to you. Good luck!!

5s on APs will get your child out of a lt least a semester of undergrad. Money in the bank.

Go to the top school admitted.
240k will cover and there will left over $$
Work during undergrad (during school and at summer internships)
Use that money to help pay for further education.