Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting for the extreme mental and physical load of being the primary breadwinner thread.

Men who'd join it are probably waiting for a woman to start it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I don’t think this is right.
Unless your household is completely dysfunctional or you don’t celebrate Christmas, there is an expectation that there will be presents on Christmas morning and that someone is going to do the whole Santa thing.
The assumption is that she is going to handle it because she is the lesser ranking spouse and therefore has more of the grunt work.
If she doesn’t do it, he isn’t automatically going to pick up the slack. He’s going to be mad. Maybe it’s worth the fight. I don’t know.

But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

It's almost like avoiding confrontations comes at a cost...

You have way bigger problems if not doing all of the mental load causes extreme conflict that scares you. In that case: divorce.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I don’t think this is right.
Unless your household is completely dysfunctional or you don’t celebrate Christmas, there is an expectation that there will be presents on Christmas morning and that someone is going to do the whole Santa thing.
The assumption is that she is going to handle it because she is the lesser ranking spouse and therefore has more of the grunt work.
If she doesn’t do it, he isn’t automatically going to pick up the slack. He’s going to be mad. Maybe it’s worth the fight. I don’t know.

But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

It's almost like avoiding confrontations comes at a cost...

You have way bigger problems if not doing all of the mental load causes extreme conflict that scares you. In that case: divorce.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

So stop.

And neglect the children? Yeah, great solution.

I stopped cooking and my husband looked like a deer in the headlights at first but then he started scrambling. First he ordered take out, then bought prepared meals at Whole Foods, and now he’s getting the meal boxes with ingredients that he cooks. No, my kids weren’t neglected. And, it turns out, he could and would cook if I stopped cooking. I did the same thing with Summer camps: told him in December that I was no longer in charge of securing Summer camps, let him know if he didn’t have a plan for the kids by early January, we’d be screwed. Lo and be hold he got it done and is now on Year 3 of being Summer camp organizer. I no longer think about it…well except for now while writing this. Some things will go awry, it will be ugly sometimes but it’s worth it.

PPs aren’t suggesting shifting the load to their husbands. They’re suggesting abandoning key work—like finding summer camps—altogether, insisting it isn’t actually necessary and that these women’s stressors are all in their heads.

+10000

I’m a PP and I’m suggesting both. Shift key tasks to your spouse AND abandon some if the things that are slowly killing you (stocking gir a 3 year old). Or don’t. Up to you!

If my kids woke up on Christmas without presents my DH would verbally abuse me. I’d get screamed at and told how he makes more money than I do. He’d accuse me of having mental health issues

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I don’t think this is right.
Unless your household is completely dysfunctional or you don’t celebrate Christmas, there is an expectation that there will be presents on Christmas morning and that someone is going to do the whole Santa thing.
The assumption is that she is going to handle it because she is the lesser ranking spouse and therefore has more of the grunt work.
If she doesn’t do it, he isn’t automatically going to pick up the slack. He’s going to be mad. Maybe it’s worth the fight. I don’t know.

But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

It's almost like avoiding confrontations comes at a cost...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I don’t think this is right.
Unless your household is completely dysfunctional or you don’t celebrate Christmas, there is an expectation that there will be presents on Christmas morning and that someone is going to do the whole Santa thing.
The assumption is that she is going to handle it because she is the lesser ranking spouse and therefore has more of the grunt work.
If she doesn’t do it, he isn’t automatically going to pick up the slack. He’s going to be mad. Maybe it’s worth the fight. I don’t know.

But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

It’s this. Once in a while I forget this. But I always come back to it. It’s because I’m less important and not a man. I must do the grunt work and also do things like arrange childcare. Oh well. Hope he dies first.

Anonymous wrote:Some defenders on this thread are missing a crucial point when they say “if you’re too mentally stressed to handle it, don’t do it.” It’s not that women are so stressed they just can’t possibly do it. It’s that she’s doing all that - even taking just an hour a day - while her husband gets to relax, watch tv, scroll his phone. We’d love the opportunity to have downtime too!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

So stop.

And neglect the children? Yeah, great solution.

I stopped cooking and my husband looked like a deer in the headlights at first but then he started scrambling. First he ordered take out, then bought prepared meals at Whole Foods, and now he’s getting the meal boxes with ingredients that he cooks. No, my kids weren’t neglected. And, it turns out, he could and would cook if I stopped cooking. I did the same thing with Summer camps: told him in December that I was no longer in charge of securing Summer camps, let him know if he didn’t have a plan for the kids by early January, we’d be screwed. Lo and be hold he got it done and is now on Year 3 of being Summer camp organizer. I no longer think about it…well except for now while writing this. Some things will go awry, it will be ugly sometimes but it’s worth it.

PPs aren’t suggesting shifting the load to their husbands. They’re suggesting abandoning key work—like finding summer camps—altogether, insisting it isn’t actually necessary and that these women’s stressors are all in their heads.

+10000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I don’t think this is right.
Unless your household is completely dysfunctional or you don’t celebrate Christmas, there is an expectation that there will be presents on Christmas morning and that someone is going to do the whole Santa thing.
The assumption is that she is going to handle it because she is the lesser ranking spouse and therefore has more of the grunt work.
If she doesn’t do it, he isn’t automatically going to pick up the slack. He’s going to be mad. Maybe it’s worth the fight. I don’t know.

But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

PP’s suggestion to not do anything reeks of privilege.

If my kids woke up on Christmas without presents my DH would verbally abuse me. I’d get screamed at and told how he makes more money than I do. He’d accuse me of having mental health issues.

Anonymous wrote:Some defenders on this thread are missing a crucial point when they say “if you’re too mentally stressed to handle it, don’t do it.” It’s not that women are so stressed they just can’t possibly do it. It’s that she’s doing all that - even taking just an hour a day - while her husband gets to relax, watch tv, scroll his phone. We’d love the opportunity to have downtime too!

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting for the extreme mental and physical load of being the primary breadwinner thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I don’t think this is right.
Unless your household is completely dysfunctional or you don’t celebrate Christmas, there is an expectation that there will be presents on Christmas morning and that someone is going to do the whole Santa thing.
The assumption is that she is going to handle it because she is the lesser ranking spouse and therefore has more of the grunt work.
If she doesn’t do it, he isn’t automatically going to pick up the slack. He’s going to be mad. Maybe it’s worth the fight. I don’t know.

But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: +1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

If these women are amenable to outsourcing gift wrapping and tree decorating and Christmas dinner preparing, they should.

I outsource what I don't want on my mental load. People resist this because they want to wrap gifts. Not everyone does. But it is not uncommon.

Or because they think about that money going toward retirement accounts or college funds.

OR because they're unwilling to drop the nonessentials to preserve their sanity and resources. Gift wrapping, tree decorating, Christmas dinner preparing... nothing stated in this thread is a need.

Then what is a need? If you don’t need these things you also could live without a sofa, never go on vacation and eat McDonald’s every night instead of a normal meal.

You sound like a man who takes advantage of female labor and your only defense is to claim it’s all unnecessary make work. As if kids don’t expect presents from Santa.

TIL I'm finally a man!

I am, interestingly enough, a person who has gone without a sofa, lived many long years without a vacation, and ate worse than McDonalds many nights. It probably continues to inform my perspective... Maybe it's easier to realize how nice things are because I went for many years without those niceties and I realize they're definitely not needs.

Cool well I’m an UMC American and we have standards including a tree, stockings and some presents for Christmas.

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Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

So stop.

And neglect the children? Yeah, great solution.

I stopped cooking and my husband looked like a deer in the headlights at first but then he started scrambling. First he ordered take out, then bought prepared meals at Whole Foods, and now he’s getting the meal boxes with ingredients that he cooks. No, my kids weren’t neglected. And, it turns out, he could and would cook if I stopped cooking. I did the same thing with Summer camps: told him in December that I was no longer in charge of securing Summer camps, let him know if he didn’t have a plan for the kids by early January, we’d be screwed. Lo and be hold he got it done and is now on Year 3 of being Summer camp organizer. I no longer think about it…well except for now while writing this. Some things will go awry, it will be ugly sometimes but it’s worth it.

PPs aren’t suggesting shifting the load to their husbands. They’re suggesting abandoning key work—like finding summer camps—altogether, insisting it isn’t actually necessary and that these women’s stressors are all in their heads.

Summer camp isn't key work. It's not that the problem is all in your head, it's that the problem is your attachment to unnecessary things.