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Anonymous wrote:The thing that really makes me laugh is that those who “travel” here all go to the same tired destinations and spend tons (miles or points or cash or whatever) to do it. We have been to all the big places, but now focus on really affordable out of the way places that are certainly more enjoyable and cheaper than even daily life in the USA. And they’re not filled with the mindless Instagram or DCUM UMC wannabe crowd.

I was wondering when the condescending “I’ve already been to all these places so now they are passé” poster would show up!

So you enjoyed them but no one else should?

PP here. Not necessarily. But there is a huge difference between what these places were like 30 years vs 10 years ago (not that much different) and 10 years ago vs now (completely different). I blame the social media. Either way, so many places are just no go now.

Idk what to mean. I’ve been going to London since 1993. I’ve been there probably upwards of 20 times now for work and play. It was lovely then and it is lovely now. If you can’t find things to enjoy in London, the problem is not London.

NP. Yes and no. There's been a lot of changes in the past 30 years. Demographic change in London is real, the British talk about it all the time, even in their papers. There's still the fun things to do but the personality of London today isn't what it was, so I don't feel drawn to London any more especially after I've already seen all the sights many times over. And mass tourism has also changed the travel experience. I used to walk into the major museums and often have them mostly to myself, but now you need queues and tickets and slotted times.

I still travel but the world has changed, tourism has changed, I'm getting older. I like the quieter out of way places now.

Covid did this, not mass tourism. And if you cared to look beyond major museums, you can walk into the Leighton House or Bletchley Park today and have the place to yourself.

Without the demographic change to would not have ottolenghi or dishooom or the wonders of edgware road. Or the glamor of Mayfair! One gets tired of the fish and chips you know.

I don't agree it was covid. London has changed dramatically in the past 25 years. It has always been a very diverse city - I remember going to Brick Lane for a curry and Brixton for Jamaican vibes over 35 years ago. When Ottolenghi opened over 20 years ago, the foreign born population was about 21%. It is now 41%. There are fewer young Europeans living and working there due to the loss of freedom of movement resulting from Brexit so the ethnic make up feels different and it feels more 'international' and less European. Tourism to the UK has also increased dramatically from about 25 million visitors in 2000 to 43 million in 2024. Obviously all of these changes have impacted the feel of the city and the size of crowds.

Just to clarify - you regret that there are too many immigrants but not enough European immigrants? Too many dishooms, not enough chez francoises?

Don't feed the troll. This PP pops up here every few months and goes into this detailed, yet slightly vague rant about London has become too ethnic, too international, not English anymore, etc. it's just a lot of dog whistles, best to ignore.

I am not sure why some people are so triggered when a simple reality is pointed out: that London demographics have changed dramatically in the last 30 years. It's true. It is absolutely true. The proportion of native English has fallen sharply while the population of non English, and now non EU has risen enormously. It is not a secret. And there's a lot of social and cultural tensions in Britain over mass migration. It is a dominant topic in their news and politics. There were riots last year. There was a comment in a mainstream British paper a few days ago that the Northern cities are still tinderboxes. Why is it a problem to point this out?

And when you do have wide sweeping demographic changes, things do change. I am not making a moral case out of it, but I have also noticed that many of the British traditions and cultural foibles and rituals have steadily faded away too, which isn't surprising. In London the museums are there and the restaurants are certainly better, but it's not the London or England it once was. London certainly has become international. It's character is now international, not English or British. You can enjoy and celebrate London as a great international city, which it is.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing that really makes me laugh is that those who “travel” here all go to the same tired destinations and spend tons (miles or points or cash or whatever) to do it. We have been to all the big places, but now focus on really affordable out of the way places that are certainly more enjoyable and cheaper than even daily life in the USA. And they’re not filled with the mindless Instagram or DCUM UMC wannabe crowd.

I was wondering when the condescending “I’ve already been to all these places so now they are passé” poster would show up!

So you enjoyed them but no one else should?

PP here. Not necessarily. But there is a huge difference between what these places were like 30 years vs 10 years ago (not that much different) and 10 years ago vs now (completely different). I blame the social media. Either way, so many places are just no go now.

Idk what to mean. I’ve been going to London since 1993. I’ve been there probably upwards of 20 times now for work and play. It was lovely then and it is lovely now. If you can’t find things to enjoy in London, the problem is not London.

NP. Yes and no. There's been a lot of changes in the past 30 years. Demographic change in London is real, the British talk about it all the time, even in their papers. There's still the fun things to do but the personality of London today isn't what it was, so I don't feel drawn to London any more especially after I've already seen all the sights many times over. And mass tourism has also changed the travel experience. I used to walk into the major museums and often have them mostly to myself, but now you need queues and tickets and slotted times.

I still travel but the world has changed, tourism has changed, I'm getting older. I like the quieter out of way places now.

Covid did this, not mass tourism. And if you cared to look beyond major museums, you can walk into the Leighton House or Bletchley Park today and have the place to yourself.

Without the demographic change to would not have ottolenghi or dishooom or the wonders of edgware road. Or the glamor of Mayfair! One gets tired of the fish and chips you know.

I don't agree it was covid. London has changed dramatically in the past 25 years. It has always been a very diverse city - I remember going to Brick Lane for a curry and Brixton for Jamaican vibes over 35 years ago. When Ottolenghi opened over 20 years ago, the foreign born population was about 21%. It is now 41%. There are fewer young Europeans living and working there due to the loss of freedom of movement resulting from Brexit so the ethnic make up feels different and it feels more 'international' and less European. Tourism to the UK has also increased dramatically from about 25 million visitors in 2000 to 43 million in 2024. Obviously all of these changes have impacted the feel of the city and the size of crowds.

Just to clarify - you regret that there are too many immigrants but not enough European immigrants? Too many dishooms, not enough chez francoises?

Don't feed the troll. This PP pops up here every few months and goes into this detailed, yet slightly vague rant about London has become too ethnic, too international, not English anymore, etc. it's just a lot of dog whistles, best to ignore.

I am not sure why some people are so triggered when a simple reality is pointed out: that London demographics have changed dramatically in the last 30 years. It's true. It is absolutely true. The proportion of native English has fallen sharply while the population of non English, and now non EU has risen enormously. It is not a secret. And there's a lot of social and cultural tensions in Britain over mass migration. It is a dominant topic in their news and politics. There were riots last year. There was a comment in a mainstream British paper a few days ago that the Northern cities are still tinderboxes. Why is it a problem to point this out?

And when you do have wide sweeping demographic changes, things do change. I am not making a moral case out of it, but I have also noticed that many of the British traditions and cultural foibles and rituals have steadily faded away too, which isn't surprising. In London the museums are there and the restaurants are certainly better, but it's not the London or England it once was. London certainly has become international. It's character is now international, not English or British. You can enjoy and celebrate London as a great international city, which it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing that really makes me laugh is that those who “travel” here all go to the same tired destinations and spend tons (miles or points or cash or whatever) to do it. We have been to all the big places, but now focus on really affordable out of the way places that are certainly more enjoyable and cheaper than even daily life in the USA. And they’re not filled with the mindless Instagram or DCUM UMC wannabe crowd.

I was wondering when the condescending “I’ve already been to all these places so now they are passé” poster would show up!

So you enjoyed them but no one else should?

PP here. Not necessarily. But there is a huge difference between what these places were like 30 years vs 10 years ago (not that much different) and 10 years ago vs now (completely different). I blame the social media. Either way, so many places are just no go now.

Idk what to mean. I’ve been going to London since 1993. I’ve been there probably upwards of 20 times now for work and play. It was lovely then and it is lovely now. If you can’t find things to enjoy in London, the problem is not London.

NP. Yes and no. There's been a lot of changes in the past 30 years. Demographic change in London is real, the British talk about it all the time, even in their papers. There's still the fun things to do but the personality of London today isn't what it was, so I don't feel drawn to London any more especially after I've already seen all the sights many times over. And mass tourism has also changed the travel experience. I used to walk into the major museums and often have them mostly to myself, but now you need queues and tickets and slotted times.

I still travel but the world has changed, tourism has changed, I'm getting older. I like the quieter out of way places now.

Covid did this, not mass tourism. And if you cared to look beyond major museums, you can walk into the Leighton House or Bletchley Park today and have the place to yourself.

Without the demographic change to would not have ottolenghi or dishooom or the wonders of edgware road. Or the glamor of Mayfair! One gets tired of the fish and chips you know.

I don't agree it was covid. London has changed dramatically in the past 25 years. It has always been a very diverse city - I remember going to Brick Lane for a curry and Brixton for Jamaican vibes over 35 years ago. When Ottolenghi opened over 20 years ago, the foreign born population was about 21%. It is now 41%. There are fewer young Europeans living and working there due to the loss of freedom of movement resulting from Brexit so the ethnic make up feels different and it feels more 'international' and less European. Tourism to the UK has also increased dramatically from about 25 million visitors in 2000 to 43 million in 2024. Obviously all of these changes have impacted the feel of the city and the size of crowds.

Just to clarify - you regret that there are too many immigrants but not enough European immigrants? Too many dishooms, not enough chez francoises?

Don't feed the troll. This PP pops up here every few months and goes into this detailed, yet slightly vague rant about London has become too ethnic, too international, not English anymore, etc. it's just a lot of dog whistles, best to ignore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We prioritize it because it’s something we all enjoy.
We don’t have a college fund for DD. She’ll go to CC then transfer hopefully.

Not sure if this is rage bait but this is...unfortunate.

Nobody needs a college fund. It's all a giant scam.

Anonymous wrote:I am a nurse, so very much true middle class. I live in a VHCOL city. I take 2-3 int’l trips a year by keeping them to a week or less, buying very cheap airfare and going off season/ shoulder season. Once there, I stay in the cheapest hotel I can find that is safe.

Of note, i literally never, ever order DoorDash. Anyone who has ever paid $29 all-in for a single hamburger is not allowed to whine about the costs associated with taking a trip— you are pissing away your money

I don’t pay the premium for Instacart. I don’t have regularly scheduled housecleaners. I go out to eat with friends sparingly, not just because it’s 7 pm and I don’t feel like cooking.

Oh ! And I don’t have a $800-$1000 monthly car pay like a few of my coworkers who wanted the brand new bronco instead of the 18 month old used Corolla.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because there are a lot of people who make a lot of money. It's that simple.

And yes, there really are a lot of people with large incomes. And if you are smart with money and budgets and travel, it's highly manageable. The most common complaint I hear around me isn't the cost of travel but the time scarcity.

What is a large income? I make $150k per year and cannot afford to travel at all. I don’t even spend much besides on food, rent, gas, and insurance

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I don't see the value in most travel. With 3 teens, the cost is prohibitive and the ratio of cost:value just isn't there.

Then you my friend, are not traveling right esp having 3 teens!!

With all due respect, if you dint see value in experiencing any other culture, not one different than American, it's your loss.

There's a zillion places you could pick and none of them are "wrong" but to not see value in any country in the world to see just once in your life is kinda... actually - stupid. It's missing out on even knowing what is happening in the world. Beyond that, you could choose fun, beauty, history, the most superficial or deep experience and it would be value added to yours and your kids" lives. What a lonely existence to not be able to explore the world and see value beyond your little microcosm.

You sound like a moron. Price out a trip for 5 adults to Europe -anywhere- over a HS break (mid-June, July, spring break week, etc) and let us know if the trip is "worth" it. The teens need their own beds and eat 4 meals a day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing that really makes me laugh is that those who “travel” here all go to the same tired destinations and spend tons (miles or points or cash or whatever) to do it. We have been to all the big places, but now focus on really affordable out of the way places that are certainly more enjoyable and cheaper than even daily life in the USA. And they’re not filled with the mindless Instagram or DCUM UMC wannabe crowd.

So, if somebody has never been to London, they should skip it since you’ve already been there????? And God forbid somebody takes a picture of Big Ben or Buckingham Palace.

To save us such embarrassment, please provide your list of approved travel destinations.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up lower middle class. Not an exaggeration, we went on one family vacation my entire childhood. I went to camp in the summers and we would occasionally go visit my grandparents in Florida. Traveled for sports locally. Parents couldn’t afford anything else.

I started traveling truly in college on my own dime. Went abroad in college and have since been to over 30 countries. I’m in my early 40s.

We are now by all accounts very well off. My kids are 7 and 9 and have already been to 10 countries and dozens of states.

All of this is to say: it’s ok if you don’t take your kids places. I never did until I was an adult and do very well now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing that really makes me laugh is that those who “travel” here all go to the same tired destinations and spend tons (miles or points or cash or whatever) to do it. We have been to all the big places, but now focus on really affordable out of the way places that are certainly more enjoyable and cheaper than even daily life in the USA. And they’re not filled with the mindless Instagram or DCUM UMC wannabe crowd.

I was wondering when the condescending “I’ve already been to all these places so now they are passé” poster would show up!

So you enjoyed them but no one else should?

PP here. Not necessarily. But there is a huge difference between what these places were like 30 years vs 10 years ago (not that much different) and 10 years ago vs now (completely different). I blame the social media. Either way, so many places are just no go now.

Idk what to mean. I’ve been going to London since 1993. I’ve been there probably upwards of 20 times now for work and play. It was lovely then and it is lovely now. If you can’t find things to enjoy in London, the problem is not London.

NP. Yes and no. There's been a lot of changes in the past 30 years. Demographic change in London is real, the British talk about it all the time, even in their papers. There's still the fun things to do but the personality of London today isn't what it was, so I don't feel drawn to London any more especially after I've already seen all the sights many times over. And mass tourism has also changed the travel experience. I used to walk into the major museums and often have them mostly to myself, but now you need queues and tickets and slotted times.

I still travel but the world has changed, tourism has changed, I'm getting older. I like the quieter out of way places now.

Covid did this, not mass tourism. And if you cared to look beyond major museums, you can walk into the Leighton House or Bletchley Park today and have the place to yourself.

Without the demographic change to would not have ottolenghi or dishooom or the wonders of edgware road. Or the glamor of Mayfair! One gets tired of the fish and chips you know.

I don't agree it was covid. London has changed dramatically in the past 25 years. It has always been a very diverse city - I remember going to Brick Lane for a curry and Brixton for Jamaican vibes over 35 years ago. When Ottolenghi opened over 20 years ago, the foreign born population was about 21%. It is now 41%. There are fewer young Europeans living and working there due to the loss of freedom of movement resulting from Brexit so the ethnic make up feels different and it feels more 'international' and less European. Tourism to the UK has also increased dramatically from about 25 million visitors in 2000 to 43 million in 2024. Obviously all of these changes have impacted the feel of the city and the size of crowds.

Just to clarify - you regret that there are too many immigrants but not enough European immigrants? Too many dishooms, not enough chez francoises?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing that really makes me laugh is that those who “travel” here all go to the same tired destinations and spend tons (miles or points or cash or whatever) to do it. We have been to all the big places, but now focus on really affordable out of the way places that are certainly more enjoyable and cheaper than even daily life in the USA. And they’re not filled with the mindless Instagram or DCUM UMC wannabe crowd.

I was wondering when the condescending “I’ve already been to all these places so now they are passé” poster would show up!

So you enjoyed them but no one else should?

PP here. Not necessarily. But there is a huge difference between what these places were like 30 years vs 10 years ago (not that much different) and 10 years ago vs now (completely different). I blame the social media. Either way, so many places are just no go now.

Idk what to mean. I’ve been going to London since 1993. I’ve been there probably upwards of 20 times now for work and play. It was lovely then and it is lovely now. If you can’t find things to enjoy in London, the problem is not London.

NP. Yes and no. There's been a lot of changes in the past 30 years. Demographic change in London is real, the British talk about it all the time, even in their papers. There's still the fun things to do but the personality of London today isn't what it was, so I don't feel drawn to London any more especially after I've already seen all the sights many times over. And mass tourism has also changed the travel experience. I used to walk into the major museums and often have them mostly to myself, but now you need queues and tickets and slotted times.

I still travel but the world has changed, tourism has changed, I'm getting older. I like the quieter out of way places now.

Covid did this, not mass tourism. And if you cared to look beyond major museums, you can walk into the Leighton House or Bletchley Park today and have the place to yourself.

Without the demographic change to would not have ottolenghi or dishooom or the wonders of edgware road. Or the glamor of Mayfair! One gets tired of the fish and chips you know.

I don't agree it was covid. London has changed dramatically in the past 25 years. It has always been a very diverse city - I remember going to Brick Lane for a curry and Brixton for Jamaican vibes over 35 years ago. When Ottolenghi opened over 20 years ago, the foreign born population was about 21%. It is now 41%. There are fewer young Europeans living and working there due to the loss of freedom of movement resulting from Brexit so the ethnic make up feels different and it feels more 'international' and less European. Tourism to the UK has also increased dramatically from about 25 million visitors in 2000 to 43 million in 2024. Obviously all of these changes have impacted the feel of the city and the size of crowds.

Just to clarify - you regret that there are too many immigrants but not enough European immigrants? Too many dishooms, not enough chez francoises?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I don't see the value in most travel. With 3 teens, the cost is prohibitive and the ratio of cost:value just isn't there.

Then you my friend, are not traveling right esp having 3 teens!!

With all due respect, if you dint see value in experiencing any other culture, not one different than American, it's your loss.

There's a zillion places you could pick and none of them are "wrong" but to not see value in any country in the world to see just once in your life is kinda... actually - stupid. It's missing out on even knowing what is happening in the world. Beyond that, you could choose fun, beauty, history, the most superficial or deep experience and it would be value added to yours and your kids" lives. What a lonely existence to not be able to explore the world and see value beyond your little microcosm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing that really makes me laugh is that those who “travel” here all go to the same tired destinations and spend tons (miles or points or cash or whatever) to do it. We have been to all the big places, but now focus on really affordable out of the way places that are certainly more enjoyable and cheaper than even daily life in the USA. And they’re not filled with the mindless Instagram or DCUM UMC wannabe crowd.

I was wondering when the condescending “I’ve already been to all these places so now they are passé” poster would show up!

So you enjoyed them but no one else should?

PP here. Not necessarily. But there is a huge difference between what these places were like 30 years vs 10 years ago (not that much different) and 10 years ago vs now (completely different). I blame the social media. Either way, so many places are just no go now.

Idk what to mean. I’ve been going to London since 1993. I’ve been there probably upwards of 20 times now for work and play. It was lovely then and it is lovely now. If you can’t find things to enjoy in London, the problem is not London.

NP. Yes and no. There's been a lot of changes in the past 30 years. Demographic change in London is real, the British talk about it all the time, even in their papers. There's still the fun things to do but the personality of London today isn't what it was, so I don't feel drawn to London any more especially after I've already seen all the sights many times over. And mass tourism has also changed the travel experience. I used to walk into the major museums and often have them mostly to myself, but now you need queues and tickets and slotted times.

I still travel but the world has changed, tourism has changed, I'm getting older. I like the quieter out of way places now.

Covid did this, not mass tourism. And if you cared to look beyond major museums, you can walk into the Leighton House or Bletchley Park today and have the place to yourself.

Without the demographic change to would not have ottolenghi or dishooom or the wonders of edgware road. Or the glamor of Mayfair! One gets tired of the fish and chips you know.

I don't agree it was covid. London has changed dramatically in the past 25 years. It has always been a very diverse city - I remember going to Brick Lane for a curry and Brixton for Jamaican vibes over 35 years ago. When Ottolenghi opened over 20 years ago, the foreign born population was about 21%. It is now 41%. There are fewer young Europeans living and working there due to the loss of freedom of movement resulting from Brexit so the ethnic make up feels different and it feels more 'international' and less European. Tourism to the UK has also increased dramatically from about 25 million visitors in 2000 to 43 million in 2024. Obviously all of these changes have impacted the feel of the city and the size of crowds.