Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UC San Diego admitted 26 students from Lincoln High School in San Diego. Only 12 students in the entire senior class met California's basic high school math standards on their CAASP test. Only 4% even pass an AP exam.

UC San Diego isn't getting the best and brightest from California. It is getting the best and brightest from each high school. The problem is a large proportion of their high schools have extreme low performers and no high performers.

So here we are. College students who are barely literate and with math skills of 5th graders.

The problem is not that the UCs are taking in decent students from rotten schools.

The acute problem is that the UCs can’t provide remedial instruction for those students.

The long-term problem is that the state hasn’t figure out to offer these students access to better classes, at least online, while the students are still in high school.

UC’s mission is not to be in the business of providing remedial education. UC’s strength is research and graduate programs.Due to their focus on equity and access they are turning away many kids who have the academic preparation to fully take advantage of those opportunities and instead admitting kids who may need several semesters, possibly years of remedial courses to get to that baseline. It would
make so much more
sense for these students to get the remediation they need at the community colleges , where the professors actually focus on teaching, and then transfer once they have shown they are capable of doing the work, with the GPA/transcript to prove it. It would also be a lot cheaper too, for the students.

No they just accept a ton of students. There are very few people leaving Berkeley who are academically ready for the challenge of a rigorous post-secondary education, even fewer who could get through a Berkeley grad program, but Berkeley is a massive place, so there are many of their students all over the US.

Anonymous wrote:This makes me not want to send any of my kids to a UC school.

Yeah. Especially if you are OOS. It is not worth it. As a California resident, it is a “good deal” financially, but I would prefer to pay extra for a private college experience if my family can afford it. It’s better to go to UC for grad school—that is the basis for their reputation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UC San Diego admitted 26 students from Lincoln High School in San Diego. Only 12 students in the entire senior class met California's basic high school math standards on their CAASP test. Only 4% even pass an AP exam.

UC San Diego isn't getting the best and brightest from California. It is getting the best and brightest from each high school. The problem is a large proportion of their high schools have extreme low performers and no high performers.

So here we are. College students who are barely literate and with math skills of 5th graders.

The problem is not that the UCs are taking in decent students from rotten schools.

The acute problem is that the UCs can’t provide remedial instruction for those students.

The long-term problem is that the state hasn’t figure out to offer these students access to better classes, at least online, while the students are still in high school.

UC’s mission is not to be in the business of providing remedial education. UC’s strength is research and graduate programs.Due to their focus on equity and access they are turning away many kids who have the academic preparation to fully take advantage of those opportunities and instead admitting kids who may need several semesters, possibly years of remedial courses to get to that baseline. It would
make so much more
sense for these students to get the remediation they need at the community colleges , where the professors actually focus on teaching, and then transfer once they have shown they are capable of doing the work, with the GPA/transcript to prove it. It would also be a lot cheaper too, for the students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ironically, the students who major in sociology, ethnic studies and other soft subjects end up being the ones working in education administration and setting admissions policy, where they proceed to favor other students like them in the admissions process. part of the problem is that administrators and not actual faculty have taken control of the admissions process and student evaluation methods.

This!! It’s not being talked about enough. This is why there’s so much stupidity in education

While I agree that the type of person who becomes an admissions officer is not the best and brightest, they are not in control. They simple execute the directive that comes from senior leadership. It’s the board, chancellor, deans etc and it is very much a business decision. UCSD is extremely strong in some majors. If the rankings didn’t push them to admit so many kids who don’t belong there, they wouldn’t do it. They need the high ranking to attract international and out of state students for money. All UCs struggle with yield from this population so the rankings matter to them.

My son has friends who had tippy top stats, really smart and nice kids who worked incredibly hard and were rejected from every UC except Merced. They are at Purdue, Carnegie Mellon, UIUC, and Cornell doing great but racking up debt They would have loved to go to Cal, UCLA, Irvine, Davis, SD, SB or even Santa Cruz! Instead of accepting the kid that is getting top grades at Cornell, UCSD chose someone who has math skills below a middle schooler.

I thought we were talking about education/admissions administration and policy, not the actual uni admissions. What you are saying kind of supports my statement, no? They have a directive to accept more people like them, mediocre but with the right narrative - FGLI and such.

Anonymous wrote:The solution is not to make kids provide AP scores. High school students should not have to take college classes in high school just to get into college.

The solution is not to require SAT tests. It’s not clear how well SATs predict anything.

The solution is to bring back SAT high school subject tests or the equivalent and require in-state UC students to get the equivalent of at least C’s on at least three of those.

The SAT subject tests used to measure something very practical: How well students had learned ordinary high school students.

Students obviously can improve their scores on subject tests by studying, and studying for those tests would give them something of value: literacy.

The UC schools could give exemptions for students with good reasoning and language skills along with learning disabilities in math.

What? APs are appropriate college prep exams. The only reason we haven't required them is no one has pressured school districts to open AP courses at all of their schools.

This makes me not want to send any of my kids to a UC school.

Anonymous wrote:UC San Diego admitted 26 students from Lincoln High School in San Diego. Only 12 students in the entire senior class met California's basic high school math standards on their CAASP test. Only 4% even pass an AP exam.

UC San Diego isn't getting the best and brightest from California. It is getting the best and brightest from each high school. The problem is a large proportion of their high schools have extreme low performers and no high performers.

So here we are. College students who are barely literate and with math skills of 5th graders.

The problem is not that the UCs are taking in decent students from rotten schools.

The acute problem is that the UCs can’t provide remedial instruction for those students.

The long-term problem is that the state hasn’t figure out to offer these students access to better classes, at least online, while the students are still in high school.

The solution is not to make kids provide AP scores. High school students should not have to take college classes in high school just to get into college.

The solution is not to require SAT tests. It’s not clear how well SATs predict anything.

The solution is to bring back SAT high school subject tests or the equivalent and require in-state UC students to get the equivalent of at least C’s on at least three of those.

The SAT subject tests used to measure something very practical: How well students had learned ordinary high school students.

Students obviously can improve their scores on subject tests by studying, and studying for those tests would give them something of value: literacy.

The UC schools could give exemptions for students with good reasoning and language skills along with learning disabilities in math.

Anonymous wrote:How come a nationally ranked T30 school’s holistic admissions process can’t filter students who is incapable of handling college level math?

Because those in charge of the UC system don't care and equity is the driving force.

And no one with a straight face thinks it is top 30 college, just like UC Merced is not a top 50 college with a 90% acceptance rate and average SAT pre-covid of 1050. Only US News and its focus on equity thinks so.

How come a nationally ranked T30 school’s holistic admissions process can’t filter students who is incapable of handling college level math?

^Continuing on how difficult it is for poor student to have the opportunity to learn math her is another example from Lincoln High School in San Diego which is one of the poorest in San Diego.

The school site council (formed from teachers, principal, staff members, parents and students) voted in 2019 to spend:

120K for math tutoring
100K for new math textbooks for IM 1-3.

Was this money ever spent? NO. A community member then went to meetings and explains, "“We want to use the word misappropriated. We want to use the term misdirected. I told my team, I said, ‘Let’s go ‘hood on it.’ That money was stolen. It was stolen from children. And I’ll stand on that,” Blackmon said at the meeting."

So in 2019 no money is spent on math tutoring or math textbooks. In 2020 they cancel the calculus class after the first quarter then under pressure from publicity they reinstate it 4th quarter.

Then they stop offering the calculus.

CBS local news reported Calculus may be on the chopping block, again for San Diego's Lincoln High School.

Lincoln High School administrators say they’re trying to figure out how to continue the class for the upcoming academic year 2022 – 2023.
Eight students were enrolled for the class in the fall. Unless the class is offered, they will have to enroll in something less challenging.
This comes to some parents’ and educators’ dismay, because they say Lincoln’s possible calculus students are some of the school’s best and brightest academically.
Now parents, students, and administrators are scrambling to find a place for the higher-level math class with the start of the school year just a few weeks away. Critics say the educational disinvestment continues to hurt marginalized, Black, and Brown communities."

Note that this is happening a few weeks before school starts. And what is the district's solution,

"The latest idea for Lincoln High School is to combine calculus and pre-calculus into one classroom with one teacher at the same time."

The news report ends:

As of the posting of this story [July 2022], Lincoln High School’s master schedule does not list the calculus class for its 2022 – 2023 academic year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UC San Diego admitted 26 students from Lincoln High School in San Diego. Only 12 students in the entire senior class met California's basic high school math standards on their CAASP test. Only 4% even pass an AP exam.

UC San Diego isn't getting the best and brightest from California. It is getting the best and brightest from each high school. The problem is a large proportion of their high schools have extreme low performers and no high performers.

So here we are. College students who are barely literate and with math skills of 5th graders.

You are blaming the brightest students who are getting such an awful education instead of the public school system. Imagine if your child were taking AP calculus and after the first quarter the school unilaterally decides to cancel the AP calculus class and places your child in a ceramics class? That's the education Lincoln High School students have been getting. It seems like it is a joke but it really happened!

https://voiceofsandiego.org/2020/09/16/when-a-calculus-class-abruptly-became-ceramics-at-lincoln-high/

The article explains, "But Zuri Williams told me that midway through her daughter’s senior year, she came home with some odd news. The Advanced Placement calculus class she was in had been abruptly canceled after the first quarter. She had applied to the most prestigious colleges in the country, all of which would be expecting her to finish the classes in which she was enrolled.

Lincoln High, though, canceled calculus and put Zora Williams in a ceramics class instead.

Soon the prestigious Wellesley College informed her that it had put her on the waitlist for admission. Her confidence plummeted, and she was confused about the options the district laid out for how she could finish the class."

So then what happened? Well the bad publicity resulted in the district reinstating the class the fourth quarter.

The story of the class is a sad one. At first, 21 students signed up for it but after a few weeks, 13 had dropped it. The school decided to cut it off. The eight remaining students could have tried to finish the class online, through the district’s iHigh program. The school also pledged to try to make it work in the fourth quarter of the year after it recruited more students in the meantime.

That ended up happening, and 21 total students finished the class in the fourth quarter.

Barrera said the school, though, should have allowed those eight students to continue with the class without delay.

“I think once a course begins, schools and the district have an obligation to allow students to complete the course,” he wrote in an email.[I]

Realistically there is no way you are going to really be prepared to take an AP calculus course if you go in person the first quarter, you get placed into ceramics or drop the course then the fourth quarter you resume the class. So of course those 21 students are going to test poorly on a math placement exam even though they somehow got credit for a calculus class.

Sounds like a well funded school, so this is a parent-engagement issue.

Anonymous wrote:UC San Diego admitted 26 students from Lincoln High School in San Diego. Only 12 students in the entire senior class met California's basic high school math standards on their CAASP test. Only 4% even pass an AP exam.

UC San Diego isn't getting the best and brightest from California. It is getting the best and brightest from each high school. The problem is a large proportion of their high schools have extreme low performers and no high performers.

So here we are. College students who are barely literate and with math skills of 5th graders.

You are blaming the brightest students who are getting such an awful education instead of the public school system. Imagine if your child were taking AP calculus and after the first quarter the school unilaterally decides to cancel the AP calculus class and places your child in a ceramics class? That's the education Lincoln High School students have been getting. It seems like it is a joke but it really happened!

https://voiceofsandiego.org/2020/09/16/when-a-calculus-class-abruptly-became-ceramics-at-lincoln-high/

The article explains, "But Zuri Williams told me that midway through her daughter’s senior year, she came home with some odd news. The Advanced Placement calculus class she was in had been abruptly canceled after the first quarter. She had applied to the most prestigious colleges in the country, all of which would be expecting her to finish the classes in which she was enrolled.

Lincoln High, though, canceled calculus and put Zora Williams in a ceramics class instead.

Soon the prestigious Wellesley College informed her that it had put her on the waitlist for admission. Her confidence plummeted, and she was confused about the options the district laid out for how she could finish the class."

So then what happened? Well the bad publicity resulted in the district reinstating the class the fourth quarter.

The story of the class is a sad one. At first, 21 students signed up for it but after a few weeks, 13 had dropped it. The school decided to cut it off. The eight remaining students could have tried to finish the class online, through the district’s iHigh program. The school also pledged to try to make it work in the fourth quarter of the year after it recruited more students in the meantime.

That ended up happening, and 21 total students finished the class in the fourth quarter.

Barrera said the school, though, should have allowed those eight students to continue with the class without delay.

“I think once a course begins, schools and the district have an obligation to allow students to complete the course,” he wrote in an email.[I]

Realistically there is no way you are going to really be prepared to take an AP calculus course if you go in person the first quarter, you get placed into ceramics or drop the course then the fourth quarter you resume the class. So of course those 21 students are going to test poorly on a math placement exam even though they somehow got credit for a calculus class.

UC San Diego admitted 26 students from Lincoln High School in San Diego. Only 12 students in the entire senior class met California's basic high school math standards on their CAASP test. Only 4% even pass an AP exam.

UC San Diego isn't getting the best and brightest from California. It is getting the best and brightest from each high school. The problem is a large proportion of their high schools have extreme low performers and no high performers.

So here we are. College students who are barely literate and with math skills of 5th graders.

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that if they did a broader study across all in state CA students comparing public schools that used Integrated Math versus ones that dropped it and do Algebra / Geometry/ Trig / separately they would find lower scores across low income groups in IM.

We moved to CA from MCPS. The elementary school math was fine , no Curriculum 2.0 thank god. Actual tests, textbook, real math, homework graded and a nice option was that if you finished the in class work really fast you could do challenge questions in a group with other kids. It fell apart in middle school and high school. Integrated math is truly the Frankenstein creation of people who don’t understand math. The textbook is hilariously bad. It’s all questions that make no sense unless you’ve learned math somewhere else. It’s not accelerated, it’s two years behind MCPS. Homework was never graded, just stamped on a separate page. Tests and quizzes were always group based. DD who had done Algebra in MCPS was super popular because she quickly did the answers while others were clueless. The only kids that learned any math were the kids whose parents had them doing UC Scout, Khan, Russian Math etc. This continued into high school. AP Calculus classes are solely made up of kids who learn math outside of school. IM leaves way too many gaps.

This gets masked in wealthy areas where parents realize how bad it is and just make their kids learn math outside the school.

It’s getting masked real well one way or another, because 22% of incoming freshmen at UCSD are placing into Calc I, and another 48% are placing into math beyond Calc I. That’s a much more common outcome than the kids who need remediation (even though obviously the remediation numbers are far too high).