Anonymous wrote:750/750 first time taking it. junior

will take again for possible higher math, but happy!

800(v)/710(m), first time taking it. Junior.

Child was expecting mid-1400s and is thrilled!! Performed better on this test than any practice test.

Says she’ll retake it in the spring to try to bring up math.

In my view, scores reflect actual aptitude— highly gifted in humanities; weaker in math/science, but still very strong.

Future government/political science major aiming for top tier schools.

Honest question here - my DD took the SAT for the 3rd time in August. First two time the score was the exact same and this time it went up by 30 points. Her superstore is shy of a 1400 but her GPA is great, all 5s on APS, etc... I feel like at this point it's not worth it taking again but anxious for her because her scores and the rest of her academics don't jive and I know many schools make first cuts based on SAT scores. Would it be completely nuts to have her take the ACT once this fall just to see or should we just submit or opt out depending on the school? Please don't mock me - this is an honest question

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Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to have a lot of "perfect GPA/ high rigor" kids who are surprised their kids are scoring in the 1300-1400 range (still a great score)!

I think what this shows is that grading standards at high schools (especially public ones) have become so inflated that GPA is a barely meaningful metric any more. Also demonstrates the folly of test optional policies.

Every high school is different. Every kid is different. Test scores should not be dispositive in the admissions context, but it is undeniably useful to have a single uniform and unbiased metric for all kids in the admissions pool (if only to normalize the wildly different quality and grading standards across high schools).

It's also helpful for students to understand their own strengths and weaknesses.

Another +1

In our school (a top private outside DMV), it’s quite common for a junior to get 1470-1550 in their first try, some after trying in 10th grade and getting 1430+, yet none of these kids has ever experienced a 4.0 in their life. They often have 3.7-3.85 GPAs. And before anyone says they must have tests prep tutors to achieve those high SATs, I can tell you our DCs didn’t and you have to then also ask why couldn’t those same tutors help them get the elusive 4.0.

I think schools that inflate GPAs have shot themselves in the foot because they invite college admissions to question the rigor of their curriculum. And when a school sends in 60 applications same year all with indistinguishable 4.0, top rigor, multiple club leaderships and school awards, the easiest way for admissions officers is to reject all of them.

Last year, 5 kids out of 110 in our school cracked 3.9 for their GPA; they all got into HYPMS, as did some with 3.85-3.89.

When you have an entrance exam to get into the high school, you can't take credit for the school's amazing SAT scores. My DD's school is the same way. But these girls all killed it in 8th grade on their entrance test. Not surprising they're high SAT scorers, too.

You misunderstood my point. My point was not that the school alone was responsible for high SAT scores. I was simply echoing OR who thought the frequent cases of super high GPA + lower SAT show many schools, esp public high schools, grade inflate. Whenever we hear on this board someone has a 4.0 GPA yet was shut out from T20, often they are from these same high schools, never from schools that only give 5 kids a 3.9. My point is top colleges have also caught on to the rampant grade inflation and the grade inflation may have backfired because it invites questions on the HS’s rigor if everyone could get a 4.0 yet those same kids couldn’t crack 1450.

THIS. Or the valedictorians from upper middle class publics with 1350, 1380, and mostly 3s because"no one gets 5s on AP" yet the private school has kids who did not crack the top 20% for GPA(cum laude) yet had 1550 and mostly 5s, JHU ED for Engineering and got in as they should (my nephew). Then people think it is unfair --no it is a better education and much less inflation; AO's know this.

This is not a thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to have a lot of "perfect GPA/ high rigor" kids who are surprised their kids are scoring in the 1300-1400 range (still a great score)!

I think what this shows is that grading standards at high schools (especially public ones) have become so inflated that GPA is a barely meaningful metric any more. Also demonstrates the folly of test optional policies.

Every high school is different. Every kid is different. Test scores should not be dispositive in the admissions context, but it is undeniably useful to have a single uniform and unbiased metric for all kids in the admissions pool (if only to normalize the wildly different quality and grading standards across high schools).

It's also helpful for students to understand their own strengths and weaknesses.

Another +1

In our school (a top private outside DMV), it’s quite common for a junior to get 1470-1550 in their first try, some after trying in 10th grade and getting 1430+, yet none of these kids has ever experienced a 4.0 in their life. They often have 3.7-3.85 GPAs. And before anyone says they must have tests prep tutors to achieve those high SATs, I can tell you our DCs didn’t and you have to then also ask why couldn’t those same tutors help them get the elusive 4.0.

I think schools that inflate GPAs have shot themselves in the foot because they invite college admissions to question the rigor of their curriculum. And when a school sends in 60 applications same year all with indistinguishable 4.0, top rigor, multiple club leaderships and school awards, the easiest way for admissions officers is to reject all of them.

Last year, 5 kids out of 110 in our school cracked 3.9 for their GPA; they all got into HYPMS, as did some with 3.85-3.89.

When you have an entrance exam to get into the high school, you can't take credit for the school's amazing SAT scores. My DD's school is the same way. But these girls all killed it in 8th grade on their entrance test. Not surprising they're high SAT scorers, too.

You misunderstood my point. My point was not that the school alone was responsible for high SAT scores. I was simply echoing OR who thought the frequent cases of super high GPA + lower SAT show many schools, esp public high schools, grade inflate. Whenever we hear on this board someone has a 4.0 GPA yet was shut out from T20, often they are from these same high schools, never from schools that only give 5 kids a 3.9. My point is top colleges have also caught on to the rampant grade inflation and the grade inflation may have backfired because it invites questions on the HS’s rigor if everyone could get a 4.0 yet those same kids couldn’t crack 1450.

THIS. Or the valedictorians from upper middle class publics with 1350, 1380, and mostly 3s because"no one gets 5s on AP" yet the private school has kids who did not crack the top 20% for GPA(cum laude) yet had 1550 and mostly 5s, JHU ED for Engineering and got in as they should (my nephew). Then people think it is unfair --no it is a better education and much less inflation; AO's know this.

Anonymous wrote:730V/740M superscore-white female, do the AP score make it look better---5/5 calc BC, 5 comp sci A, 5 AP Spanish is this good enough for top engineering?

You must be joking. Look up the pre-TO score ranges at top schools. Look up the SAT %ile breakdowns for math, male v female. Sure males are slightly higher but there are tens of thousands of females who score 770+ on math. There are not enough spots at top schools for all of them, and because they are female they usually have higher grades in HS than corresponding males. Female val and sals are more common than males and females are more likely to be in the top10% of high school Stem is super-trendy especially with girls the past 7-8 years and the top ones often chase ivy+ just like everyone else.
Read the females in engineering threads. 740 Math is NOT GOOD for ivies/hopkins/stanford/duke. It is borderline for the next tier, Mich/Purdue/UIUC. Even if your kid somehow got in to an ivy+(they won't unless you donate a building or they are a recruited athlete), they will be there with a bunch of super high achieving females and males. Mine is Bioengineering, ivy, got an 800 math, so did most of her ivy friends: they joke about how easy the SAT was compared to math there and how easy calc BC was compared to college calc(though most of them started in multivariable so it is not apples to apples). Bioengineering is 70% female there. Almost all her friends are female engineers. There is no shortage of top-scoring 99th%ile females in stem. 740Math will not cut it for the true top schools.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What about an A in Calc AB, a 4 on the exam, and a 630 on the math portion of the SAT? For a kid who doesn’t ever plan on taking another math course in their life?

Not everyone is an engineering or CS major, but they all have to perform on this same test. Even the Ivies educate artists and musicians and philosophers and all sorts of other multifaceted individuals whose contributions can’t be measured by a standardized test.

I'm sorry, a person who gets a 4 on the Calc AB exam and a 630 on the SAT Math test does not deserve an "A" in a true college level calculus course. This is exactly the problem with grade inflation and the insane "rigor" arms race. The 4 and the 630 are not consistent with A-level mastery of the topic. In a school with honest grading standards, such a student would get a "B" in an AP class.

Gee I wonder which has more rigor, AP classes which aren’t actually college-level work but have a standard test at the end or an actual college class at a real Community College that is an actual college level class with an actual grade that goes on a transcript.

Big hint: someone with a bunch of 5’s is not necessarily going to an Ivy, but someone rocking a 4.0 at community college has a fantastic transfer shot to a T20.

Not everyone at UVA Wise makes it, but the real stars waltz right in to the Big Show.

I don’t live in NOVA and I’m pretty sure our AP classes are more rigorous than the local community college courses, just based on the peer group. Are they actual college-level work? Depends on the college, but in general, no. It’s the only system we have to work with, though.

It’s pretty rare for someone at my kid’s high school to go to a T20, though. Maybe one or two a year.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Test scores should not be dispositive in the admissions context, but it is undeniably useful to have a single uniform and unbiased metric for all kids in the admissions pool (if only to normalize the wildly different quality and grading standards across high schools).

It's not unbiased! It's biased in favor of kids from upper SES homes with college educated parents who can pay for prep courses.

Yet so many UMC moms in this thread reporting they are happy with their DCs 1200 scores. It’s the LEAST biased factor. The test doesn’t care grandpa’s seven figures trust, it also doesn’t care extended time UMC moms bought for their mediocre kids.

+1

Most kids are just that: average.

It's ok.

I wouldn’t say I was happy about the 1200 score. My DC isn’t either. But, it is not life changing.

Me, I thought I was hot $hit with my top SAT score, top 20 college and nmsf. Turns out most people don’t care in the real world, and especially outside of DCUM.

It hasn’t gotten me more happiness, or a better job, or promotions, or more money.

I also refused to pay thousands for tutoring or private school.

There should be a question about how much you paid for tutoring, how many times you took the exam, and how much your school costs on the Common App.

Also maybe it should only be offered 3 times and or all schools should be test required.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What about an A in Calc AB, a 4 on the exam, and a 630 on the math portion of the SAT? For a kid who doesn’t ever plan on taking another math course in their life?

Not everyone is an engineering or CS major, but they all have to perform on this same test. Even the Ivies educate artists and musicians and philosophers and all sorts of other multifaceted individuals whose contributions can’t be measured by a standardized test.

I'm sorry, a person who gets a 4 on the Calc AB exam and a 630 on the SAT Math test does not deserve an "A" in a true college level calculus course. This is exactly the problem with grade inflation and the insane "rigor" arms race. The 4 and the 630 are not consistent with A-level mastery of the topic. In a school with honest grading standards, such a student would get a "B" in an AP class.

Gee I wonder which has more rigor, AP classes which aren’t actually college-level work but have a standard test at the end or an actual college class at a real Community College that is an actual college level class with an actual grade that goes on a transcript.

Big hint: someone with a bunch of 5’s is not necessarily going to an Ivy, but someone rocking a 4.0 at community college has a fantastic transfer shot to a T20.

Not everyone at UVA Wise makes it, but the real stars waltz right in to the Big Show.

Please list every top 20 college which allows a high school student with cc credits (even ones with AA degrees or 60+ cc credits) to apply as a transfer student.

Which part of the word “transfer” was confusing for you?

That’s not a HS student.

Some community college students are very bright but community college classes give credit for things four year schools do not (attendance, participation, homework, etc).

Please list every top 20 college which allows a high school student with cc credits (even ones with AA degrees or 60+ cc credits) to apply as a transfer student.



Which part of the word “transfer” was confusing for you?

That’s not a HS student.

Exactly. UVA is not quite top 20 but close and the older brother of my son's best friend transferred there from NOVA. Their family are somewhat recent immigrants and this is what made best sense for them financially and personally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What about an A in Calc AB, a 4 on the exam, and a 630 on the math portion of the SAT? For a kid who doesn’t ever plan on taking another math course in their life?

Not everyone is an engineering or CS major, but they all have to perform on this same test. Even the Ivies educate artists and musicians and philosophers and all sorts of other multifaceted individuals whose contributions can’t be measured by a standardized test.

I'm sorry, a person who gets a 4 on the Calc AB exam and a 630 on the SAT Math test does not deserve an "A" in a true college level calculus course. This is exactly the problem with grade inflation and the insane "rigor" arms race. The 4 and the 630 are not consistent with A-level mastery of the topic. In a school with honest grading standards, such a student would get a "B" in an AP class.

Gee I wonder which has more rigor, AP classes which aren’t actually college-level work but have a standard test at the end or an actual college class at a real Community College that is an actual college level class with an actual grade that goes on a transcript.

Big hint: someone with a bunch of 5’s is not necessarily going to an Ivy, but someone rocking a 4.0 at community college has a fantastic transfer shot to a T20.

Not everyone at UVA Wise makes it, but the real stars waltz right in to the Big Show.

Please list every top 20 college which allows a high school student with cc credits (even ones with AA degrees or 60+ cc credits) to apply as a transfer student.

Which part of the word “transfer” was confusing for you?

That’s not a HS student.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What about an A in Calc AB, a 4 on the exam, and a 630 on the math portion of the SAT? For a kid who doesn’t ever plan on taking another math course in their life?

Not everyone is an engineering or CS major, but they all have to perform on this same test. Even the Ivies educate artists and musicians and philosophers and all sorts of other multifaceted individuals whose contributions can’t be measured by a standardized test.

I'm sorry, a person who gets a 4 on the Calc AB exam and a 630 on the SAT Math test does not deserve an "A" in a true college level calculus course. This is exactly the problem with grade inflation and the insane "rigor" arms race. The 4 and the 630 are not consistent with A-level mastery of the topic. In a school with honest grading standards, such a student would get a "B" in an AP class.

Gee I wonder which has more rigor, AP classes which aren’t actually college-level work but have a standard test at the end or an actual college class at a real Community College that is an actual college level class with an actual grade that goes on a transcript.

Big hint: someone with a bunch of 5’s is not necessarily going to an Ivy, but someone rocking a 4.0 at community college has a fantastic transfer shot to a T20.

Not everyone at UVA Wise makes it, but the real stars waltz right in to the Big Show.

Please list every top 20 college which allows a high school student with cc credits (even ones with AA degrees or 60+ cc credits) to apply as a transfer student.

750/750 first time taking it. junior

will take again for possible higher math, but happy!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to have a lot of "perfect GPA/ high rigor" kids who are surprised their kids are scoring in the 1300-1400 range (still a great score)!

I think what this shows is that grading standards at high schools (especially public ones) have become so inflated that GPA is a barely meaningful metric any more. Also demonstrates the folly of test optional policies.

Every high school is different. Every kid is different. Test scores should not be dispositive in the admissions context, but it is undeniably useful to have a single uniform and unbiased metric for all kids in the admissions pool (if only to normalize the wildly different quality and grading standards across high schools).

It's also helpful for students to understand their own strengths and weaknesses.

Another +1

In our school (a top private outside DMV), it’s quite common for a junior to get 1470-1550 in their first try, some after trying in 10th grade and getting 1430+, yet none of these kids has ever experienced a 4.0 in their life. They often have 3.7-3.85 GPAs. And before anyone says they must have tests prep tutors to achieve those high SATs, I can tell you our DCs didn’t and you have to then also ask why couldn’t those same tutors help them get the elusive 4.0.

I think schools that inflate GPAs have shot themselves in the foot because they invite college admissions to question the rigor of their curriculum. And when a school sends in 60 applications same year all with indistinguishable 4.0, top rigor, multiple club leaderships and school awards, the easiest way for admissions officers is to reject all of them.

Last year, 5 kids out of 110 in our school cracked 3.9 for their GPA; they all got into HYPMS, as did some with 3.85-3.89.

When you have an entrance exam to get into the high school, you can't take credit for the school's amazing SAT scores. My DD's school is the same way. But these girls all killed it in 8th grade on their entrance test. Not surprising they're high SAT scorers, too.

You misunderstood my point. My point was not that the school alone was responsible for high SAT scores. I was simply echoing OR who thought the frequent cases of super high GPA + lower SAT show many schools, esp public high schools, grade inflate. Whenever we hear on this board someone has a 4.0 GPA yet was shut out from T20, often they are from these same high schools, never from schools that only give 5 kids a 3.9. My point is top colleges have also caught on to the rampant grade inflation and the grade inflation may have backfired because it invites questions on the HS’s rigor if everyone could get a 4.0 yet those same kids couldn’t crack 1450.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What about an A in Calc AB, a 4 on the exam, and a 630 on the math portion of the SAT? For a kid who doesn’t ever plan on taking another math course in their life?

Not everyone is an engineering or CS major, but they all have to perform on this same test. Even the Ivies educate artists and musicians and philosophers and all sorts of other multifaceted individuals whose contributions can’t be measured by a standardized test.

I'm sorry, a person who gets a 4 on the Calc AB exam and a 630 on the SAT Math test does not deserve an "A" in a true college level calculus course. This is exactly the problem with grade inflation and the insane "rigor" arms race. The 4 and the 630 are not consistent with A-level mastery of the topic. In a school with honest grading standards, such a student would get a "B" in an AP class.

Gee I wonder which has more rigor, AP classes which aren’t actually college-level work but have a standard test at the end or an actual college class at a real Community College that is an actual college level class with an actual grade that goes on a transcript.

Big hint: someone with a bunch of 5’s is not necessarily going to an Ivy, but someone rocking a 4.0 at community college has a fantastic transfer shot to a T20.

Not everyone at UVA Wise makes it, but the real stars waltz right in to the Big Show.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Senior disappointed as they consistently score about 50 points lower in the room than at home. This was third time and they seem to have maxed out at a 1450 - obviously not terrible but they've studied hard.

This is my DS exactly. Hard to see him so disappointed because he’s such a great kid. He’s feeling some schools are out since he can’t crack 1500.

Same here. Can’t crack it, still in lower 1400s and having to decide whether to submit.

This is why we need to go back to test required.

Who’s “we”?

Which T20 do you run admissions policy for?

This is worse than sports radio, at least the callers there know something about sports.

Are you new here? This is a message where “we” all give our opinions. Do you think it’s a normal world when a kid in the top 3% doesn’t think their score is high enough and may not report?

Most of the opinions here are utter shit.

Only in demented T20 app world is a top 3% score considered problematic and requires six or seven retakes to MAXIMIZE SCORES.

If standardized tests actually accurately measured anything, they would not let you take it six times and cherry pick the best scores.

What kind of meritocracy gives five or six do-overs but also demands mandatory score reporting? It’s totally incoherent.

Why can you take the SAT infinite times to try and boost your score but the AP Test or the Class Final once?