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Anonymous wrote:This is like a man saying my love language is sexy clothing and lingerie. I want her to show me she cares by putting thought into what I would want to see her in and wearing what I want her to wear and when I want her to wear it. If she doesn’t do that, then she clearly doesn’t care about me or love me and it’s disappointing because a good girlfriend would want to please her man and do what is important to him in a thoughtful way.

For some men having s sexy woman who takes care of herself is a non-negotiable. They would never date a fat slob who never wears make up. OP is a materialistic person who expects gifts - why should she compromise and accept a someone who doesn't share her values? I don't share her values, but I still thing she should get what she needs from a relationship with no judgment. I get what I need from mine and find it fulfilling. Everyone should have that

Disagree. Gifts giving has been a love language and way to express affection since beginning of civilization. He was doing it before and now stopped. He could have gotten flowers at $20 at Safeway to show his affection.
It’s not materialistic for OP to feel that way.

Gift giving is a made up ‘love language’ to get stuff. Comes from the traditional gender norms of men are a wallet and need to pay out to be with me mentality… if you actually love someone then you don’t care that they brought you Valentine’s Day gifts in person or that your birthday gift was a dinner out. Do you teach your kids to demand gifts from extended family and from everyone around them and if they don’t get gifts on the exact day, then those people don’t love them? Nonsense. Gifts shouldn’t be demanded or required or else they aren’t gifts.

It’s very impolite to go to someone’s bday party and offer them an act of service (clean the kitchen) when everyone else brings gift. I just wouldn’t invite that person anymore.
It is still traditional and a social norm to give gifts on bday. My mom will be very upset if I don’t give her flowers or anything for her bday. I give gifts to my girlfriends on their bdays. Because I value these people.
And yes, you need to grow up: life in general is material. It costs money.

I wouldn’t be with a man who only can offer acts of service but I’m the one paying rent. No way, it’s actually HIM who is being materialistic and too cheap .

So all housewives are materialistic and cheap, as they only offer acts of service.

Let’s not compare long term marriages dynamic between established partners with social norms for dating, friendships etc.
Of course that’s an outlier and totally disrespectful not to bring a gift to bday party. Adults bring a desert and a nice bottle of wine when they visit friends

OP is not married to her BF for the gifts to become a monotonous obligation. Also, it doesn’t look like he gives her any random gifts “on point” either. He just doesn’t give a f..,k

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Anonymous wrote:I'd drop him. The men I know who don't make the effort with their significant others to recognize their birthdays and anniversaries are selfish and self-absorbed. ADHD is not an excuse. You deserve better.

But they went out to dinner! He probably thought that *was* recognizing it. Because it is.

OP here. Ok fine, I’ll bite. I had to ask him when we were going out for my birthday because he didn’t proactively set something up. And then he planned a dinner last minute, was late picking me up, and at dinner he said he meant to bring flowers but ran out of time and looked really sheepish like he knew he was not bringing his A game.

Did he have a reason he was late/distracted? Has the relationship simply run its course?

If I were in my twenties, I would never accept this lack of effort. It all kind of sounds like he isn’t into OP.

Unfortunately, OP is now a divorced middle aged woman. I’m not sure if OP wants children. It doesn’t sound like she does.

It doesn’t sound like this is a good match and OP should move on.

I have a friend who is twice divorced. She also highly values gift giving. She was like OP divorced in her mid thirties and married a guy who went all out with gifts and flowers. He was very grand in gestures. Then the gestured stopped after they got married and he left her.

There were many less grand guys who she probably thought were low effort. She could be married with kids but she went for the grand gift giving man.

She seems to have less and less options now in her late forties. She still refused to settle and wants everything.

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Anonymous wrote:This is like a man saying my love language is sexy clothing and lingerie. I want her to show me she cares by putting thought into what I would want to see her in and wearing what I want her to wear and when I want her to wear it. If she doesn’t do that, then she clearly doesn’t care about me or love me and it’s disappointing because a good girlfriend would want to please her man and do what is important to him in a thoughtful way.

For some men having s sexy woman who takes care of herself is a non-negotiable. They would never date a fat slob who never wears make up. OP is a materialistic person who expects gifts - why should she compromise and accept a someone who doesn't share her values? I don't share her values, but I still thing she should get what she needs from a relationship with no judgment. I get what I need from mine and find it fulfilling. Everyone should have that

Disagree. Gifts giving has been a love language and way to express affection since beginning of civilization. He was doing it before and now stopped. He could have gotten flowers at $20 at Safeway to show his affection.
It’s not materialistic for OP to feel that way.

Gift giving is a made up ‘love language’ to get stuff. Comes from the traditional gender norms of men are a wallet and need to pay out to be with me mentality… if you actually love someone then you don’t care that they brought you Valentine’s Day gifts in person or that your birthday gift was a dinner out. Do you teach your kids to demand gifts from extended family and from everyone around them and if they don’t get gifts on the exact day, then those people don’t love them? Nonsense. Gifts shouldn’t be demanded or required or else they aren’t gifts.

It’s very impolite to go to someone’s bday party and offer them an act of service (clean the kitchen) when everyone else brings gift. I just wouldn’t invite that person anymore.
It is still traditional and a social norm to give gifts on bday. My mom will be very upset if I don’t give her flowers or anything for her bday. I give gifts to my girlfriends on their bdays. Because I value these people.
And yes, you need to grow up: life in general is material. It costs money.

I wouldn’t be with a man who only can offer acts of service but I’m the one paying rent. No way, it’s actually HIM who is being materialistic and too cheap .

So all housewives are materialistic and cheap, as they only offer acts of service.

The lack of a birthday gift when he otherwise celebrated your birthday with a nice dinner out would not be a dealbreaker for me, but the lying about "I have something for you" absolutely would be. My LH pulled that crap all the time and it was just one of many ways in which he lied and gaslit me.

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. And I don’t mean that snarkily!

It sure sounded snarky . . .

But I’ll answer, I’m 51. I own so many things and could buy whatever I want. But I’ve always felt this way even when I’d have much and wanted more. There is something about waiting for trinkets to show me I am loved that has never sat well with me.

Children are old enough to decide what to do for Mother and Fathers Day. Not sure I’ve ever given Valentines Day much thought, except for post-holiday chocolate sales. We ask each other what we want and how to celebrate birthdays and Christmas — and sometimes we plan our own birthday or buy our own gift. Often we do not give birthday presents. If we acknowledge birthdays, it’s more likely to be a joint or family activity. Dinner is the most common family birthday acknowledgment.

My husband and I have been married a long time. He knows me well, but still not as well as I know myself.

OP here. But isn’t this part the key?

OP he took you out to dinner for your birthday several days after the actual date. That is enough for the vast majority of adults. You need to own that YOU have an unusual attachment to physical gifts. Since your preference is unique you need to make the effort to use your words and discuss it with him instead of complaining here and to your friends. And by discuss I mean you tell him what you feel and what you want - NOT that you accuse him of being avoidant, having poor manners, not caring about you, etc. “Joe, I realize you may not get this from what I said, but I actually really love to get gifts and was kind of sad you didn’t get anything for me this year. Do you think you could pick up something small for my birthday and we could have a redo? I know it’s silly but I really love it. Then next week we can go to that show you want to see.”

Ugh, this is such a turnoff. If a man said this to me I’d likely be out of that relationship.

Really? Someone honestly telling you their needs while owning their feelings?

Um, yes, really. If someone tells me their feelings, and those don't align with my own values, I'm out.

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Anonymous wrote:OP here: Now I’ll probably get flamed for asking him when we were going out for my birthday. I’m sorry I was married forever and have no effs to give.

No, you won't, because DCUM believes you should not date a man who is lazy, disorganized, or has unacknowledged ADHD.

OP here: I know- it’s so funny how I’m the villain until I reveal the ADHD part 😂

No, you're still childish to care so much about material gifts. But it's weird that you made it about the physical gift when clearly your problem involves more than that.

Of course it is about more than that! That is the entire point.

No it isn't. At first it seemed like he took her to dinner but gave no other gift. The problem is actually that he made no dinner plan until reminded, was late, and admitted he ran out of time for flowers. If he made and executed a perfect plan for a restaurant meal but there was no gift, that's not a problem IMO. But what OP described when she told the full story is not ok.

OP here. Upon further reflection, I think this is why the lack of a gift has bothered me. It was the overall lack of effort. If he had taken the initiative to plan something in a thoughtful manner, I wouldn’t have been looking for something else to show he cared. It was the same thing for Valentines Day. He never said happy Valentine’s Day I’m excited to celebrate with you at a future date and do something fun. He never said let’s put something on the calendar. (We had our kids that day so we’re apart.) Anyway, this has all been helpful to hear.

Anonymous wrote:So he did give you thoughtful gifts for Valentines Day but because he gave them to you in person and that wasn’t on Feb 14, they don’t count. And he took you out for dinner for your birthday but since he didn’t also give you another gift, it doesn’t count. The reality is that no matter what he does, it won’t be enough. You are high maintenance and materialistic. I get you feel that the social norm is that a man’s role is to give you lots of money and gifts and buy you expensive things that you can show off to your friends, but you should be dating him for him, not for what he can buy you. I would break up. There are sugar daddy websites you can go on and find an older man who will lavish gifts on you in return for you giving him what he needs and wants.

I agree. There are few things more pathetic than a materialistic person who pouts when a gift isn’t the right gift. It’s exhausting and denotes emotional immaturity, and in my experience, a level of clinical narcissism.

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Anonymous wrote:OP: Your values and your sense of worth are messed up. Have you always been this petty or is it a recent develop ?

OP here. I’m interested in this point. Is it petty? Because when I tell my friends about this they definitely have immediate visceral reaction that a line has been crossed here — and is illustrative of a bigger issue in the relationship. Heck I was married for a long time to someone who had difficulty doing basic tasks and he always got me a birthday present.

You and your friends are shallow. I was married and we did not exchange gifts. It is just not important. Gifts are for kids. It is illustrative that your priorities are messed up.

I think you are silly. Why do you need gifts? This seems really immature to me. I am late 40s and divorced with kids. This is extremely petty. You expect too much.

If he's not marrying you after two years, move on and stop complaining.

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Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't date either or you. Who needs more crap?
He is trying to create emotional distance between you. All the special days and need for gifts is the opposite of being able to do that.
Not a good match.

OP here. I think this is right about him trying to create emotional distance. And yes of course it’s not about the actual gift. Giving birthday and Christmas gifts is just something people who love each other do for each other customarily. And we had done this all before so it’s a shift. This isn’t the only sign that he’s trying to create emotional distance. It’s just the most obvious, concrete one.

What do you mean we had this all before? You’ve been going out 2 years - so one other Christmas and birthday?

By the way gift giving is my lowest priority of all the love languages and I vote for breaking up. I find that people who prioritize gifts so highly have a very different emotional makeup than the other languages. The rest of the love languages amplify everyday activity.

But gift givers say stuff like you didn’t give the gift on the day, you didn’t send it, dinner out is not a physical gift, etc (all stuff in your post, even when you are praising a gift). It’s draining for someone who doesn’t have that as a love language.

That’s interesting. I love giving/getting gifts but I am not really demanding about it. I just appreciate them when they come and would be sad if my boyfriend never gave me gifts. But I am pretty happy with whatever I get and more than happy to just place and order for myself and call it a gift lol. It seems like a pretty small thing to do.

HOWEVER - I definitely know someone who was a complete psycho about gifts, even from children, who would lose it not only if they didn’t get a gift but if it wasn’t a good enough gift. But she was trouble in many other areas of life. The gift part was just one particularly bad example (since she ruined more than one Christmas).

OP kind of strikes me as the latter especially since she is complaining to everyone about it. Too much drama.

OP here. He gave me a sports bra and a stuffed animal last year and I was thrilled.

Wooow. You want to break up with him because you didn’t get the equivalent of a sports bra and a stuffed animal this year? It’s not about the gift (PASTA!)

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't date either or you. Who needs more crap?
He is trying to create emotional distance between you. All the special days and need for gifts is the opposite of being able to do that.
Not a good match.

OP here. I think this is right about him trying to create emotional distance. And yes of course it’s not about the actual gift. Giving birthday and Christmas gifts is just something people who love each other do for each other customarily. And we had done this all before so it’s a shift. This isn’t the only sign that he’s trying to create emotional distance. It’s just the most obvious, concrete one.

What do you mean we had this all before? You’ve been going out 2 years - so one other Christmas and birthday?

By the way gift giving is my lowest priority of all the love languages and I vote for breaking up. I find that people who prioritize gifts so highly have a very different emotional makeup than the other languages. The rest of the love languages amplify everyday activity.

But gift givers say stuff like you didn’t give the gift on the day, you didn’t send it, dinner out is not a physical gift, etc (all stuff in your post, even when you are praising a gift). It’s draining for someone who doesn’t have that as a love language.

This. It's never enough, they always pick at it. Break up and find someone who gives physical gifts to your precise standards. If you can.

This. I get stressed by buying presents for people who need nothing!

My BF also only took me to dinner on my birthday. I had a great time and don’t care about the gift because I don’t need anything! You probably don’t either. Let it go.

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Anonymous wrote:This is why chivalry worked back in the day. The woman was to be obedient, keep a welcoming house, and satisfy and meet her man’s needs and in return he gallantly opened doors, bought gifts, and swept her off her feet with his romantic acts.

Chivalry never really worked for women. Life has been very dangerous for women throughout history.

Well it worked for women if what she wanted was gifts and gallantry and romantic gestures.

This is all kinds of bs. It wasn't so lovely and flowery. History never is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why chivalry worked back in the day. The woman was to be obedient, keep a welcoming house, and satisfy and meet her man’s needs and in return he gallantly opened doors, bought gifts, and swept her off her feet with his romantic acts.

Chivalry never really worked for women. Life has been very dangerous for women throughout history.

Well it worked for women if what she wanted was gifts and gallantry and romantic gestures.