Anonymous wrote:With Cornell consistently ranking above Brown and Dartmouth in the USNews rankings isn't it safe to say that Cornell is a middle ivy now? Also Cornell is extremely strong in STEM which will continue to grow as the primary basis for university reputation across the world. Also given a lot of the bad press around Columbia I would say the tiers now are:

Tier 1: HYP
Tier 2: Penn, Cornell
Tier 3: Columbia
Tier 4: Brown, Dartmouth

DD/friends anecdotally say the USN rankings in the last couple of years have changed things and they refer to Cornell as a T10, while Brown and Dartmouth are considered just OK T20s.

Just go to Harvard.

Parents who ask these questions are the ones who did not go to an Ivy…..please…

This whole "worst Ivy" debate is honestly missing the point. We're talking about 8 institutions that collectively accept around 14,000 students out of hundreds of thousands of applicants each year. That's like arguing which Ferrari is the "worst" - they're all incredible machines that 99.9% of people would be thrilled to own.
Cornell, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth - each has produced Nobel laureates, Supreme Court justices, presidents, and leaders in every field imaginable. They all offer world-class faculty, incredible resources, and alumni networks that open doors globally.
The real difference between these schools isn't quality - it's fit. Cornell's engineering program is phenomenal, Brown's open curriculum is perfect for some students, Dartmouth's tight-knit community appeals to others. What matters is finding the right match for your goals and personality, not some arbitrary ranking.
Anyone fortunate enough to get into any Ivy League school should feel proud. The fact that we're even debating which is "worst" among institutions that reject 95%+ of applicants shows how privileged this entire conversation is.

Anonymous wrote:Good grief. Why are people obsessed with Cornell? If you don’t think it’s a good school, then don’t go. It’s a little weird that people are trying so hard to convince others that it’s the worst Ivy.

A bunch of trolls, most of whom have no shot or whose kids have no shot at Cornell or any comparable institution.

Good grief. Why are people obsessed with Cornell? If you don’t think it’s a good school, then don’t go. It’s a little weird that people are trying so hard to convince others that it’s the worst Ivy.

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Anonymous wrote:Cornell vs USC
USC wins 63% to 37%
https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=University+of+Southern+California&with=Cornell+University

Probably skewed by California residents or those with a strong California preference. Not much reason to apply to USC otherwise.

True, but what about Duke and Notre Dame? Cornell loses badly to those too.

Unless you live in a Catholic shtetl (does your kid go to Chaminade, Delbarton, Regis, or Gonzaga?), Cornell does not "lose badly" to Notre Dame. Not even close. Remember that a huge percentage of the population does not even consider ND. It is a very good school, and perhaps it beats Cornell slightly (though I don't think so), but it does not beat it badly. Duke probably doesn't beat it badly either, though that is more possible.

Look through the thread!
Cornell vs Notre Dame
Notre Dame- 70%
https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=University+of+Notre+Dame&with=Cornell+University

Cornell v Duke
Duke- 83%
https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Duke+University&with=Cornell+University

You’re quoting Parchment? Come on. This is self-reported data that is seriously skewed and unreliable. Notre Dame has a very specific market.

With Parchment's data, you can get some counterintuitive results because applicants tend not to apply to schools unless they're strongly considering them.

For instance, of students cross-admitted to UT-Arlington and UT-Austin, a greater percentage opt to attend UT-Arlington. That's because most people who apply to UT-Arlington *live in the area* and are likely highly cost-conscious. The majority of UT-Austin applicants never even consider UT-Arlington. The mere fact that someone is a cross-admit to both implies they have a highly-above-average interest in UT-Arlington, otherwise they wouldn't have applied.

https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=University+of+Texas+at+Austin&with=University+of+Texas+at+Arlington

You see the same thing with any school that has a built-in set of applicants with an especially strong reason to prefer it. For instance, applicants who are cross-admitted to BYU and Duke are more likely to choose BYU:

https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Brigham+Young+University-Provo&with=Duke+University

Are you going to say that BYU is better and more popular than Duke?

It's not perfect, but it's much better than DCUM opinions. The Ivy or bust crowd on DCUM is having their bubble burst. The "new ivys" are better than the lower ivys. Cornell and Dartmouth would be nowhere near Vandy, Rice, Emory, Georgetown without that Ivy label, and it shows. Also, Parchment is not self reported its counselor reported.

DP. Counselor reported is still self-reporting of the data.

An additional issue to the one mentioned above is that they have a tiny fraction of the actual admits. They say “tens of thousands” but that’s on data running back to 2009. There have been tens of millions of newly-admitted students during that time. They try to control for this statistically but you just can’t. It’s part of the reason the confidence intervals are so wide.

That means 2009-2025 not just the year 2009. Your reading comprehension needs help

No, actually yours does. 2009-2025 is exactly what I was referring to when I said “data running back to 2009.” Not sure why your great reading comprehension skills caused you to think that meant 2009 only. Tens of thousands of admit data points over 16 years is tiny relative to the tens of millions of people admitted during that time. Which is exactly what I said.

Millions of kids are not getting into Cornell or any top school, porzingous!

Good lord you are dense. We are talking about the validity and problems with Parchment, which is not just about Cornell admits. You clearly weren’t cut out for college since you can’t follow this very simple debate so why are you even here?

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Anonymous wrote:Cornell tends to place as the top Ivy for engineering.

Top engineering kids tend to go to MIT Stanford CMU UIUC for engineering.

None of the schools you name are ivy.

Of course you go to MIT or Stanford over Cornell.

But I can make an argument for Cornell over CMU or UIUC.

My son is going to be a Sr in Engineering at Cornell. He selected Cornell over CMU and UIUC. It wasn’t even close. What a ludicrous discussion….

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Anonymous wrote:Tier 1: HYP
Tier 2: Wharton, Dyson
Tier 3: Columbia CC SEAS, Penn non-Wharton, Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell non-Dyson non-contract.
Tier 4: Cornell contract colleges

Agree?

Huh?
Who cares about these distinctions? Bored ppl?

No one cares about the contract college thing. At least in recruiting.

I am 100% convinced people that do this did not attend nor have a child that attends, and are still in the research and yet to apply stage. No one does this that is affiliated.

Just for everyone's edification, the contract colleges are state funded colleges at Cornell so there are in-state preferences.
Dyson is their business school. I think a lot of people would put Cornell's engineering school ahead of their undergrad business school.

Don’t agree. I am a Cornell Eng grad. My daughter just graduated from Nolan. Their Hotel school is #1 in the world. The business school has one of the best placements in the country. I would not put Eng ahead of Business. That is BS. Cornell has TWO undergrad business schools. Dyson and the SChool of Hotel Administration. Most people dont know, but Nolan is one of the only non business schools that is AACSB accredited. Meaning, it is a Business School with a Hospitality focus. 50% of the students end up going to Investment jobs.

I like the idea of a private/public partnership. That’s pretty cool. Will add Cornell to the list of colleges to look at for my 10th grader. And I’ve always heard it’s a beautiful campus. Not sure why people here are sneering at some Cornell schools being state funded. The elitism is so dumb. To each their own I guess

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Anonymous wrote:Cornell vs USC
USC wins 63% to 37%
https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=University+of+Southern+California&with=Cornell+University

USC is a substantially easier admit.

Party kids go to USC, serious kids go to Cornell

Parchment data cannot be extrapolated like this. No one chooses USC over Cornell unless it is for reasons such as weather or wanting to be on the west coast. Cornell is definitely more highly regarded than USC at my company which is a large multinational

Most do choose USC over Cornell, and how would you know why they chose it? If Cornell were more prestigious, location wouldn't matter.

DP here. My kid went to USC. It’s meh. Completely overrated. He ended up transferring. Cornell is definitely way more prestigious.

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Anonymous wrote:I’d still take the worst ivy over almost every non-ivy

Most students today wouldn't

Cornell is ranked #11 by USNWR. Rankings aside, average students today are morons. The TikTok generation. Most students today belong in community college.

After the fake redesign to help large schools with a bunch of Pell grant students, it was ranked 19 before that. Do you think the current methodology will last when schools have removed DEI?

My grandmother was FGLI at Cornell in the 1930s. She was extremely bright and descended from fairly literate but poor immigrants from a very poor European country. One of many US women who helped further the idea that women should receive equal education to men and could pursue professional opportunities. One of her friends there was a mainland Chinese grad student who studied aquaculture in the Ag school. When the Communist takeover ruined his chances in China, he moved permanently to the US and helped innovate in the fish farming industry. So that's an example of what DEI looked like almost 100 years ago at Cornell. DEI policies (using whatever buzzwords are in vogue in an era) definitely are life-transforming for those who get the opportunity. And are not to be sneered at if you believe in rewarding intelligence and hard work among those who weren't born into comfortable, conventional situations.

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Anonymous wrote:Tier 1: HYP
Tier 2: Wharton, Dyson
Tier 3: Columbia CC SEAS, Penn non-Wharton, Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell non-Dyson non-contract.
Tier 4: Cornell contract colleges

Agree?

Huh?
Who cares about these distinctions? Bored ppl?

No one cares about the contract college thing. At least in recruiting.

I am 100% convinced people that do this did not attend nor have a child that attends, and are still in the research and yet to apply stage. No one does this that is affiliated.

Just for everyone's edification, the contract colleges are state funded colleges at Cornell so there are in-state preferences.
Dyson is their business school. I think a lot of people would put Cornell's engineering school ahead of their undergrad business school.

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Anonymous wrote:Cornell tends to place as the top Ivy for engineering.

Top engineering kids tend to go to MIT Stanford CMU UIUC for engineering.

None of the schools you name are ivy.

Of course you go to MIT or Stanford over Cornell.

But I can make an argument for Cornell over CMU or UIUC.

Is that the only thing that holds Cornell in place?

No. But what if it was? Why does this bother people? Don't you have a better place to spend your mental energy? FFS

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Anonymous wrote:Cornell tends to place as the top Ivy for engineering.

Top engineering kids tend to go to MIT Stanford CMU UIUC for engineering.

None of the schools you name are ivy.

Of course you go to MIT or Stanford over Cornell.

But I can make an argument for Cornell over CMU or UIUC.

Is that the only thing that holds Cornell in place?

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Anonymous wrote:Cornell tends to place as the top Ivy for engineering.

Top engineering kids tend to go to MIT Stanford CMU UIUC for engineering.

None of the schools you name are ivy.

Of course you go to MIT or Stanford over Cornell.

But I can make an argument for Cornell over CMU or UIUC.