Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is most jobs are just made up. They don't actually matter. It doesn't matter how well you do them, because it's meaningless.

This is what women without jobs say to justify not having a job. If it helps you sleep at night, sure....

I work in the climate change sector, on the finance side - so I am directly contributing to renewable energy projects being built. My best friend is a veterinarian and literally saves the lives of pets. My other best friend is a teacher; a friend's daughter ended up in her class this year, and has literally changed the daughter's life, because she has connected so well with her teacher, which has been much needed in light of the mental health challenges this girl has recently had (brother with cancer). My best friend from college is a researcher in a biology field. All the women I'm good friends with have meaningful jobs that impact people around them.

Maybe you are hanging out with the wrong people. Perhaps an echo chamber of non-working women who don't actually know any working women, and just keep repeating the lie that jobs aren't important?

DP. I’m sorry but these are poor examples of people in jobs mattering, except for the teacher who is filling a stereotypically feminine, pseudo-maternal role in a child’s life.

If you are going to be a nihilist, then you should go all in, not just this half baked trope about jobs being meaningless. We are all temporary specs in the universe, here for a short nanosecond of time. Nothing, at all matters.

But but but PP is such a fantastic mother and her children are such fantastic children that will all matter so much! Except any daughters she has that may have jobs, they won't matter. Hopefully PP doesn't waste her time on them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is most jobs are just made up. They don't actually matter. It doesn't matter how well you do them, because it's meaningless.

This is what women without jobs say to justify not having a job. If it helps you sleep at night, sure....

I work in the climate change sector, on the finance side - so I am directly contributing to renewable energy projects being built. My best friend is a veterinarian and literally saves the lives of pets. My other best friend is a teacher; a friend's daughter ended up in her class this year, and has literally changed the daughter's life, because she has connected so well with her teacher, which has been much needed in light of the mental health challenges this girl has recently had (brother with cancer). My best friend from college is a researcher in a biology field. All the women I'm good friends with have meaningful jobs that impact people around them.

Maybe you are hanging out with the wrong people. Perhaps an echo chamber of non-working women who don't actually know any working women, and just keep repeating the lie that jobs aren't important?

DP. I’m sorry but these are poor examples of people in jobs mattering, except for the teacher who is filling a stereotypically feminine, pseudo-maternal role in a child’s life.

You’re not sorry and you’re wrong.
NP

+1000

And I bet the obnoxious PP thinks all vets, doctors, and nurses should be men.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's frustrating is that society asks women to justify their existence in a way men never are. This applies to both women who stay at home and women who work.

I've run into this attitude especially with older relatives. People just kind of assume my husband is the family breadwinner and sort of challenge me working, even though I actually out earn my husband. The cost of daycare is compared to my income, not his. I'm asked if my job is important, not him.

And I think this applies to SAHM too. They're asked what they do all day and judged if any household labor is outsourced. My own mom had a huge hurdle when we decided to get a house cleaning service, even with four kids and my mom dealing with some health issues after my youngest sibling was born because it was seen as her "job". Fortunately my Dad is also a good guy, never dumped everything on my mom and stood up when my older aunt would be judge.

I'm also glad I married someone who's my ally on this, who jumps in to tell his Dad the facts before I can.

yeah ok if you want to discuss gender roles with older traditionalists you're going to get what you get there

I mean it's not like we raise the subject. People like my old traditionalist aunt will bring it on themselves to try to lecture you about things.

Do your legs work? Walk away.

Anonymous wrote:I think people judge everyone but more so if woman isn't earning enough to justify spending time, energy and care elsewhere than her family.

However, with poor economy, inflation and fancy lifestyle obsession, for 80% of families its just not possible to manage on one income. Also with societal mind-shift, women have to have a job, even if its not adding anything to their own or family's lives.

So you mean people judge literally every school teacher with children at home?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot be a good mother and have a career. Sounds like you both have different priorities and it will never work.

YOU can't but I can.

I'm a lawyer and a mom, my coworkers are mostly lawyers and parents. My kid's doing great at school, I manage my schedule so we spend lots of time together. You can manage to do these things and anyone who claims it's impossible has an agenda.

I don’t know, pp.
I’m a doctor and a mom, but I have a job, not the big career I thought I would. I couldn’t have a career and be a good primary caretaker to my kids.

My dentist only works from 9-2 Monday through Thursday so she can be there for her school aged kids. I always thought that was a pretty good schedule!

IME, this is the worst kind of schedule to have with a husband who wants to have traditional gender roles.
You will end up doing all of the things that a SAHM does and having a job on the side. Plus these are the hours everyone else wants to work, so you are fighting for space.
If you’ve fallen in love and married a man who expects you to do all of the chores and kid stuff, then you should either just be a SAHM or work a schedule that forces him to be alone with the kids, leave work on time, feed them dinner, know when their activities, etc. at least a few hours a week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is most jobs are just made up. They don't actually matter. It doesn't matter how well you do them, because it's meaningless.

This is what women without jobs say to justify not having a job. If it helps you sleep at night, sure....

I work in the climate change sector, on the finance side - so I am directly contributing to renewable energy projects being built. My best friend is a veterinarian and literally saves the lives of pets. My other best friend is a teacher; a friend's daughter ended up in her class this year, and has literally changed the daughter's life, because she has connected so well with her teacher, which has been much needed in light of the mental health challenges this girl has recently had (brother with cancer). My best friend from college is a researcher in a biology field. All the women I'm good friends with have meaningful jobs that impact people around them.

Maybe you are hanging out with the wrong people. Perhaps an echo chamber of non-working women who don't actually know any working women, and just keep repeating the lie that jobs aren't important?

DP. I’m sorry but these are poor examples of people in jobs mattering, except for the teacher who is filling a stereotypically feminine, pseudo-maternal role in a child’s life.

If you are going to be a nihilist, then you should go all in, not just this half baked trope about jobs being meaningless. We are all temporary specs in the universe, here for a short nanosecond of time. Nothing, at all matters.

It’s not nihilism to acknowledge the replaceable, cog-in-the-machine aspect of work in modernity. Especially in the bullsh*t make-work jobs that most of us occupy.

There’s dignity in work, of course, but being a drudge in research is not more important or morally superior to the drudgery of one’s duty to home and family merely by virtue of it being “work”.

Try telling your kids “I didn’t want to be a cog in the machine” when you’re 80 and there’s no money to put you in a home, so it’s on your kids to take care of you, and BTW no inheritance for you kids, either. Sorry’

Everyone thinks it’s great they had a SAHP until that parent is old and broke.

I haven’t read all this OP but here’s some perspective. As you start out, you have an abstraction of marriage in mind. Then you have a special needs kid, or a dying parent living with you, or one of you gets a cancer diagnosis. If your marriage is going to survive, you both need a certain flexibility and “team mentality” to get you through.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is most jobs are just made up. They don't actually matter. It doesn't matter how well you do them, because it's meaningless.

This is what women without jobs say to justify not having a job. If it helps you sleep at night, sure....

I work in the climate change sector, on the finance side - so I am directly contributing to renewable energy projects being built. My best friend is a veterinarian and literally saves the lives of pets. My other best friend is a teacher; a friend's daughter ended up in her class this year, and has literally changed the daughter's life, because she has connected so well with her teacher, which has been much needed in light of the mental health challenges this girl has recently had (brother with cancer). My best friend from college is a researcher in a biology field. All the women I'm good friends with have meaningful jobs that impact people around them.

Maybe you are hanging out with the wrong people. Perhaps an echo chamber of non-working women who don't actually know any working women, and just keep repeating the lie that jobs aren't important?

DP. I’m sorry but these are poor examples of people in jobs mattering, except for the teacher who is filling a stereotypically feminine, pseudo-maternal role in a child’s life.

If you are going to be a nihilist, then you should go all in, not just this half baked trope about jobs being meaningless. We are all temporary specs in the universe, here for a short nanosecond of time. Nothing, at all matters.

It’s not nihilism to acknowledge the replaceable, cog-in-the-machine aspect of work in modernity. Especially in the bullsh*t make-work jobs that most of us occupy.

There’s dignity in work, of course, but being a drudge in research is not more important or morally superior to the drudgery of one’s duty to home and family merely by virtue of it being “work”.

Anonymous wrote:My boyfriend and I have a beautiful connection. both of us are marriage minded. There is one issue that’s giving me pause and I’d like to know what others think.

I am ambitious and probably make a little more than him. He is somewhat traditional on gender roles. he doesn’t want me to work long hours, and I get the feeling he does not want me to climb the corporate ladder.

I’ve told him in marriage I’d compromise on long hours. But I have this feeling he may generally speaking resent me for being ambitious down the road. I have no plans of stopping being career driven though I can dial back hours.

Everything else is golden between us. Thoughts?

This is an essential issue to deal with before marriage. If your BF envisions your life with you the primary caregiver, then that will lead to resentment from you. In marriages where both parents work outside the home, both parents are equal caregivers. If he is saying at this point that he doesn’t want to do that, then your career goals will be very difficult without outside help. Some examples of equal caregiving
- parents split the night care of newborns. Mom takes 10-3, dad takes 3-8. Each parent getting 5 hours of rest. Mom pumps milk during her shift so dad can bottle feed during his.
- each parent cleans bottles, does laundry, grocery shopping, home and yard cleaning.
- each parent has a primary responsibility for aspects of the child’s life. One parent is daycare (forms, back up care if kid is sick, restocking items), another is medical - making appointments, tracking medications, milestones. You need to separate duties so one parent isn’t mentally overloaded with responsibilities.
- daycare drop off and pick up is split

Two working parents is possible. If your career is important to you, your parent should be willing to support you and your family. DH and I both work, and this separation has worked well for us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is most jobs are just made up. They don't actually matter. It doesn't matter how well you do them, because it's meaningless.

I will fully admit I have one of those made up, meaningless jobs (although it pays quite well).

I do it because it makes me happy. I like the mental stimulation. I like having lots of money and being able to buy nice things. I like having things to do besides raise kids. If all I did was care for my H and kids all day, I’d be completely miserable.

Women don’t need to justify working. If you want to work, work. Your kids will be fine. It’s far better to have a happy mom than a mom who hovers over them 24/7.

Its not great to have a happy but unavailable mom. Kids need balance not a happy mum who rather spends most waking hours at work, shopping and at social occasions to display her shopped goods.

I’m with my kids for the 2 hours before work, the 4-5 hours after, and all weekend. That’s plenty of time.

If you can’t connect with your kids in 6 hours and need 24, something’s wrong.

Here is the problem, biologically, moms need about 2-3 years of downtime for each kid. You are growing a person, breastfeeding a person, etc. do you will be dependent on dh’s income for those years. After that you will have the mom load and you will be mommy tracked. You don’t want to be in a position of resenting your dh - that’s s marriage killer.
You can:
Downsize your lifestyle so his income is completely sufficient for those years and you DONT resent him for not being as ambitious and earning more. Then ramp back up in your career when the kid is 6-12 and have dad step up kid activities more and bank that extra money for an awesome retirement and college fund.

Mismatched ambition can be a red flag. BUT having kids changes many women’s priorities. If you are willing to forego some trappings of materialism you can make this work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is most jobs are just made up. They don't actually matter. It doesn't matter how well you do them, because it's meaningless.

I will fully admit I have one of those made up, meaningless jobs (although it pays quite well).

I do it because it makes me happy. I like the mental stimulation. I like having lots of money and being able to buy nice things. I like having things to do besides raise kids. If all I did was care for my H and kids all day, I’d be completely miserable.

Women don’t need to justify working. If you want to work, work. Your kids will be fine. It’s far better to have a happy mom than a mom who hovers over them 24/7.

Its not great to have a happy but unavailable mom. Kids need balance not a happy mum who rather spends most waking hours at work, shopping and at social occasions to display her shopped goods.

Is it also your ambition to have a stress free family life, to be present for your kids, to have a good bond with your husband? If it is then question isn't of having career ambitions or not but of finding your happy balance to reconcile both ambitions.

If you aren't ready to make that sacrifice but also want a good family life then find a more family oriented and low ambition husband.

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is most jobs are just made up. They don't actually matter. It doesn't matter how well you do them, because it's meaningless.

I will fully admit I have one of those made up, meaningless jobs (although it pays quite well).

I do it because it makes me happy. I like the mental stimulation. I like having lots of money and being able to buy nice things. I like having things to do besides raise kids. If all I did was care for my H and kids all day, I’d be completely miserable.

Women don’t need to justify working. If you want to work, work. Your kids will be fine. It’s far better to have a happy mom than a mom who hovers over them 24/7.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Every minute you spend with this guy, he is filling a space in your life that could be filled by someone who will love you as a full, ambitious human equal.

Not a given. You may end up single or settle for someone worse but fear shouldn't drive your decisions.

+1. It’s okay to be alone rather than unhappy with someone.