Anonymous wrote:How is it possible to graduate college without work experience? I am not familiar with other fields, but in my major electrical engineering they repeatedly emphasized to us that we needed work experience before graduating.

I was an EE who did not have work experience. No problem getting a job when I graduated.

Despite the negative reports US college grads are still the envy of the world. Most US college grads find jobs within a year or two max. In many part of the world they never do. But of course you will argue that in other countries they don't graduate with $100k+ student loans stating at them.

Get an AI certificate from Harvard it's 4 weeks.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you can get away with never having a job before if you are in STEM. If you are in business or law snd never had a job before graduating you are the work équivalent of an adult who has never been on a date.

It doesn't hold true for STEM either. If you've never had a real internship, it's going to be tough at graduation. Most engineering students do have good internships, and get offers and certainly contacts and references as a result. But it's as tough for STEM grads without experience as anyone else. But engineering students with internships sophomore and junior year do tend to do well. It's the experience and proving they're smart and a team player that matters. But that's probably pretty universal across all fields.

Graduating from any university without work or significant internship experience after four years is a giant red flag, especially given all the competition out there. That's a trash bin app no matter the college. Even a job scooping ice scream is a huge step up from the willfully unemployed for four years.

I am very sadden that a degree like philosophy, mathematics and physics are becoming rarer. It's unfortunate because a bachelor's degree in mathematics is one of the best degree you can have. The higher level math courses that are heavy on proofs prepare you to think in a way that you will bullet proof any career you embark on. I am successful today because of the bachelor's degree in math that I got 30 years ago. I have had many jobs over the years in a variety of fields and every time I was able to excel during interviews and at my tasks because I know how to think and solve problems.

I think we would steer our kids back to those traditional majors like math, physics and philosophy. But the biggest roadblock to that is corporate America. Their interests is not the country's interests. They want people who can use tools either hire them domestically or import them. Now when the vast majority of college graduates are not thinkers but glorified power users we find ourselves in the situation we are in.

AI will never be smarter than a human. Most people will say I am wrong because they never took courses in philosophy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Sorry kids that learned to code like we said to. The market is full and we’re still bringing in the same # of “temporary” foreign tech workers. They’re really stacking up and using master’s programs to prolong their stay here and outcompete you. Have you looked into the trades?”

Economics 101 or should I say capitalism/greed 101

Step 1: flood the market with skill workers. Hundreds for every vacancy is a good benchmark

Step 2: now that the market is flooded, the employee has the upper hand when it comes to wage negotiations.

Step 3: now in the comfortable sit, you can hire great candidates without paying them a premium

Step 4: go back to step 1 when a new technology comes out and use your rent seeking congresspeople and media to "invent" a shortage for that new technology and create buzzwords. Gen AI sounds familiar? Agentic AI sounds familiar?

And repeat the cycle.

Employer*

Anonymous wrote:“Sorry kids that learned to code like we said to. The market is full and we’re still bringing in the same # of “temporary” foreign tech workers. They’re really stacking up and using master’s programs to prolong their stay here and outcompete you. Have you looked into the trades?”

Economics 101 or should I say capitalism/greed 101

Step 1: flood the market with skill workers. Hundreds for every vacancy is a good benchmark

Step 2: now that the market is flooded, the employee has the upper hand when it comes to wage negotiations.

Step 3: now in the comfortable sit, you can hire great candidates without paying them a premium

Step 4: go back to step 1 when a new technology comes out and use your rent seeking congresspeople and media to "invent" a shortage for that new technology and create buzzwords. Gen AI sounds familiar? Agentic AI sounds familiar?

And repeat the cycle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people posting about how graduates should have fast food and retail experience don’t realize that many of those jobs have gone to full time year round workers including new legal workers (asylum seekers can legally work after a year).

We now live in CA where the minimum fast food wage is $20 an hour. My 16 year old applied to 10 fast food jobs in May and June. He got 2 interviews. When he said he could only work full time in the summer but could not work over 20 hours in the fall when school started he wasn’t hired.

The only jobs his friends got were life guarding and the attractive girls were hired as hostesses in restaurants.

I spend equal time in DC and upstate NY and I see tons of high school and college age kids in retail jobs in both places.

The point is you are not helping your kids by paying all ths bills for their upper middle class lifestyle and then suddenly expecting them to understand to be prepared for work when they graduate from college. A kid who graduated college with no workplace experience of any kind, even if volunteer experience, is behind the curve.

well plenty of foreign students get their masters without work experience (student visa doesn't allow working), and they find jobs just fine.

It allowed working when I was in college (graduated in 2010). I had friends who interned over the summer in college with their visas at Goldman Sachs and Citi and another who worked at a summer camp in Maine. They got like 6 months that they could use during college or after college. Is that not the case anymore?

I'm not sure about changes in the law. But climate and enforcement has changed. I don't think international students can count on la-di-dah internships at either summer camps in Maine or Goldman Sachs anymore. The federal government is like the Eye of Sauron right now, and no company wants to be in its glare.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you can get away with never having a job before if you are in STEM. If you are in business or law snd never had a job before graduating you are the work équivalent of an adult who has never been on a date.

In STEM, it is fine to get a Masters without working in STEM before starting grad school. I can’t speak to other fields.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people posting about how graduates should have fast food and retail experience don’t realize that many of those jobs have gone to full time year round workers including new legal workers (asylum seekers can legally work after a year).

We now live in CA where the minimum fast food wage is $20 an hour. My 16 year old applied to 10 fast food jobs in May and June. He got 2 interviews. When he said he could only work full time in the summer but could not work over 20 hours in the fall when school started he wasn’t hired.

The only jobs his friends got were life guarding and the attractive girls were hired as hostesses in restaurants.

I spend equal time in DC and upstate NY and I see tons of high school and college age kids in retail jobs in both places.

The point is you are not helping your kids by paying all ths bills for their upper middle class lifestyle and then suddenly expecting them to understand to be prepared for work when they graduate from college. A kid who graduated college with no workplace experience of any kind, even if volunteer experience, is behind the curve.

How is it possible to graduate college without work experience? I am not familiar with other fields, but in my major electrical engineering they repeatedly emphasized to us that we needed work experience before graduating. After my freshman year I worked with an electrician doing low voltage work. To this date best experience I have ever had..The summer after my sophomore year I worked in a low office doing admin work. Because I had work experience the summer after my junior year I worked for Orange and Rockland in NY. By the time I graduated I secured a full time job with Delta Airlines.

Maybe you can get away with never having a job before if you are in STEM. If you are in business or law snd never had a job before graduating you are the work équivalent of an adult who has never been on a date.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people posting about how graduates should have fast food and retail experience don’t realize that many of those jobs have gone to full time year round workers including new legal workers (asylum seekers can legally work after a year).

We now live in CA where the minimum fast food wage is $20 an hour. My 16 year old applied to 10 fast food jobs in May and June. He got 2 interviews. When he said he could only work full time in the summer but could not work over 20 hours in the fall when school started he wasn’t hired.

The only jobs his friends got were life guarding and the attractive girls were hired as hostesses in restaurants.

I spend equal time in DC and upstate NY and I see tons of high school and college age kids in retail jobs in both places.

The point is you are not helping your kids by paying all ths bills for their upper middle class lifestyle and then suddenly expecting them to understand to be prepared for work when they graduate from college. A kid who graduated college with no workplace experience of any kind, even if volunteer experience, is behind the curve.

well plenty of foreign students get their masters without work experience (student visa doesn't allow working), and they find jobs just fine.

And most of these have never had any type of job at all before getting a Master's degree?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people posting about how graduates should have fast food and retail experience don’t realize that many of those jobs have gone to full time year round workers including new legal workers (asylum seekers can legally work after a year).

We now live in CA where the minimum fast food wage is $20 an hour. My 16 year old applied to 10 fast food jobs in May and June. He got 2 interviews. When he said he could only work full time in the summer but could not work over 20 hours in the fall when school started he wasn’t hired.

The only jobs his friends got were life guarding and the attractive girls were hired as hostesses in restaurants.

I spend equal time in DC and upstate NY and I see tons of high school and college age kids in retail jobs in both places.

The point is you are not helping your kids by paying all ths bills for their upper middle class lifestyle and then suddenly expecting them to understand to be prepared for work when they graduate from college. A kid who graduated college with no workplace experience of any kind, even if volunteer experience, is behind the curve.

well plenty of foreign students get their masters without work experience (student visa doesn't allow working), and they find jobs just fine.

There is this "cool" factor of hiring foreign students. I know because I was one of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people posting about how graduates should have fast food and retail experience don’t realize that many of those jobs have gone to full time year round workers including new legal workers (asylum seekers can legally work after a year).

We now live in CA where the minimum fast food wage is $20 an hour. My 16 year old applied to 10 fast food jobs in May and June. He got 2 interviews. When he said he could only work full time in the summer but could not work over 20 hours in the fall when school started he wasn’t hired.

The only jobs his friends got were life guarding and the attractive girls were hired as hostesses in restaurants.

I spend equal time in DC and upstate NY and I see tons of high school and college age kids in retail jobs in both places.

The point is you are not helping your kids by paying all ths bills for their upper middle class lifestyle and then suddenly expecting them to understand to be prepared for work when they graduate from college. A kid who graduated college with no workplace experience of any kind, even if volunteer experience, is behind the curve.

well plenty of foreign students get their masters without work experience (student visa doesn't allow working), and they find jobs just fine.

It allowed working when I was in college (graduated in 2010). I had friends who interned over the summer in college with their visas at Goldman Sachs and Citi and another who worked at a summer camp in Maine. They got like 6 months that they could use during college or after college. Is that not the case anymore?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people posting about how graduates should have fast food and retail experience don’t realize that many of those jobs have gone to full time year round workers including new legal workers (asylum seekers can legally work after a year).

We now live in CA where the minimum fast food wage is $20 an hour. My 16 year old applied to 10 fast food jobs in May and June. He got 2 interviews. When he said he could only work full time in the summer but could not work over 20 hours in the fall when school started he wasn’t hired.

The only jobs his friends got were life guarding and the attractive girls were hired as hostesses in restaurants.

I spend equal time in DC and upstate NY and I see tons of high school and college age kids in retail jobs in both places.

The point is you are not helping your kids by paying all ths bills for their upper middle class lifestyle and then suddenly expecting them to understand to be prepared for work when they graduate from college. A kid who graduated college with no workplace experience of any kind, even if volunteer experience, is behind the curve.

well plenty of foreign students get their masters without work experience (student visa doesn't allow working), and they find jobs just fine.