Anonymous wrote:Oh no, BASIS’ shareholders might not make the profit they want next year!

BASIS DC is a nonprofit. All of the BASIS.ed schools are. Not to let "facts" get in the way or anything.

Oh no, BASIS’ shareholders might not make the profit they want next year!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want my kids to go to a school where disruptive kids and parents who don’t care can be kept or kicked out. That’s about it. If it’s a charter, that’s fine.

Ok, great. But then don't come over here whining that the city doesn't allocate as much money to your charter that you selected specifically because they don't have to educate the "disruptive kids" or deal with "families that don't care." In quotes because it's way more complex than that, but I get you don't care, you just want schools segregated by income levels.

Are you always this sanctimonious?

First, DC schools are lavishly funded compared to pretty much anywhere else in the country. The idea that DCPS is hard up is laughable.

Second, DCPS spends about $30,000 per kid versus about $17,000 per kid in charters. Do you really think there's a 75 percent difference in their student bodies?

Third, have you heard of Jackson-Reed or Deal or Janney? They're some of the most desirable schools in the city and the way we decide which kids get to attend them is we basically say "can your parents afford one of the $2 million houses nearby?"

Where are you getting these spending numbers? Basic per pupil funding levels are the same for both systems. SN and ESL kids get additional funding. Charters get a per pupil facilities allowance, and boy do they ever get up to some monkey business with real estate. And DCPS gets the physical schools in its portfolio until they are sold to developers or leased to charters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really see a problem is giving more money to DCPS schools over charters if you're forced to make school budgeting decisions. I didn't vote for Bowser and think she's far too conservative but public schools are required to take every kid, including kids charters routinely kick out. That means per pupil spending has to be higher.

I'd also note charters are also anti union which means less stability in teaching positions overall.

This city has bent over backwards for charters often at the expense of overall student education and well being.

When has the city bent over backwards for charters? Ever?

By having them exist, especially in this quantity.
Charters schools are not for teachers or all students and result in racial segregation.

Not all charters are bad, some are excellent. But we need to reform public schools overall, not privatize them at the taxpayers expense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BASIS allows all students who are not likely to advance a grade to take summer classes and retake exams to pass to the next grade. They are also welcome to stay and repeat a grade. Many students do this rather than go to their IB abysmal DCPS options.

Which is more like the Mississippi option - and I cannot believe that Mississippi is better at educating students than DC!!

Sure, and the students who take those options are students who are committed to improving their test scores and who have families who can support it. Again, it's a form of self selection.

I'm not saying it's a bad model if the goal is high test scores. It obviously works well at BASIS. But it's literally not available to other public schools. DCPS also offers summer classes and tutoring to students who are identified as below grade level. However it cannot force them to stay back a grade if they don't show up for the summer classes and tutoring, or if they show up and it still doesn't work. They have to just keep educating those kids the best they can. And where do you think the kids who can't stay on track at BASIS even with the summer classes wind up? They don't stay at BASIS. They wind up in DCPS or in suburban schools or in other charters that will allow them to progress to the next grade despite low test scores.

DCPS has very set rules around promotion and retention. It can happen but for students who are multiple years behind (and there are many), there are significant administrative burdens and approvals needed to do so.

Per 5-E DCMR § 2201.4(a), a student cannot be retained more than once during the student's enrollment in DCPS unless there is a comprehensive review by multiple school personnel and approval from the Instructional Superintendent whose jurisdiction encompasses the school the student attends.

Exactly, social promotion. That doesn't mean everyone in DCPS gets socially promoted, but it does mean when you look at average test scores for DCPS schools, it includes students who may be a year or more behind academically which will obviously pull average scores down.

Whereas BASIS does not do social promotion, and kids who cannot keep up even with summer school simply leave the school, which results in higher average test scores.

It does not mean that BASIS magically is able to pull up kids who test poorly and get them to test higher. It means these students leave the school.

Eh, this is how people in DC explain everything. If one group does better than another at something, it's never because they simply tried harder. It's always assumed that everyone tried equally hard and the only reason why one did better is because they had an unfair, exogenous advantage. If you were watching the Super Bowl, you'd say the Eagles won because of something to do with Pennsylvania's tax system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want my kids to go to a school where disruptive kids and parents who don’t care can be kept or kicked out. That’s about it. If it’s a charter, that’s fine.

Ok, great. But then don't come over here whining that the city doesn't allocate as much money to your charter that you selected specifically because they don't have to educate the "disruptive kids" or deal with "families that don't care." In quotes because it's way more complex than that, but I get you don't care, you just want schools segregated by income levels.

Are you always this sanctimonious?

First, DC schools are lavishly funded compared to pretty much anywhere else in the country. The idea that DCPS is hard up is laughable.

Second, DCPS spends about $30,000 per kid versus about $17,000 per kid in charters. Do you really think there's a 75 percent difference in their student bodies?

Third, have you heard of Jackson-Reed or Deal or Janney? They're some of the most desirable schools in the city and the way we decide which kids get to attend them is we basically say "can your parents afford one of the $2 million houses nearby?"

The gap in funding is bananas and absurdly unfair.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BASIS allows all students who are not likely to advance a grade to take summer classes and retake exams to pass to the next grade. They are also welcome to stay and repeat a grade. Many students do this rather than go to their IB abysmal DCPS options.

Which is more like the Mississippi option - and I cannot believe that Mississippi is better at educating students than DC!!

Sure, and the students who take those options are students who are committed to improving their test scores and who have families who can support it. Again, it's a form of self selection.

I'm not saying it's a bad model if the goal is high test scores. It obviously works well at BASIS. But it's literally not available to other public schools. DCPS also offers summer classes and tutoring to students who are identified as below grade level. However it cannot force them to stay back a grade if they don't show up for the summer classes and tutoring, or if they show up and it still doesn't work. They have to just keep educating those kids the best they can. And where do you think the kids who can't stay on track at BASIS even with the summer classes wind up? They don't stay at BASIS. They wind up in DCPS or in suburban schools or in other charters that will allow them to progress to the next grade despite low test scores.

DCPS has very set rules around promotion and retention. It can happen but for students who are multiple years behind (and there are many), there are significant administrative burdens and approvals needed to do so.

Per 5-E DCMR § 2201.4(a), a student cannot be retained more than once during the student's enrollment in DCPS unless there is a comprehensive review by multiple school personnel and approval from the Instructional Superintendent whose jurisdiction encompasses the school the student attends.

Exactly, social promotion. That doesn't mean everyone in DCPS gets socially promoted, but it does mean when you look at average test scores for DCPS schools, it includes students who may be a year or more behind academically which will obviously pull average scores down.

Whereas BASIS does not do social promotion, and kids who cannot keep up even with summer school simply leave the school, which results in higher average test scores.

It does not mean that BASIS magically is able to pull up kids who test poorly and get them to test higher. It means these students leave the school.

What people who aren't at the school are missing is that BASIS also helps kids figure out how to do well.

They have free tutoring available after school. They teach them how to use a planner and make study guides and flash cards. The teachers all have office hours and are available to answer questions. And the way they teach, through handwritten note taking, is more conducive to learning.

Yes, some kids wash out. But it is more similar to the Mississippi system of having high standards and ALSO helping kids meet them, compared to DCPS.

I think the presence of BASIS is a good thing, don’t take this as a critique of BASIS, but them being able to mostly kick out the kids who don’t put the work in or whose parents don’t care enough to keep the kids engaged means comparing their test scores to other schools who can’t kick kids out is not an apples to apples comparison.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BASIS allows all students who are not likely to advance a grade to take summer classes and retake exams to pass to the next grade. They are also welcome to stay and repeat a grade. Many students do this rather than go to their IB abysmal DCPS options.

Which is more like the Mississippi option - and I cannot believe that Mississippi is better at educating students than DC!!

Sure, and the students who take those options are students who are committed to improving their test scores and who have families who can support it. Again, it's a form of self selection.

I'm not saying it's a bad model if the goal is high test scores. It obviously works well at BASIS. But it's literally not available to other public schools. DCPS also offers summer classes and tutoring to students who are identified as below grade level. However it cannot force them to stay back a grade if they don't show up for the summer classes and tutoring, or if they show up and it still doesn't work. They have to just keep educating those kids the best they can. And where do you think the kids who can't stay on track at BASIS even with the summer classes wind up? They don't stay at BASIS. They wind up in DCPS or in suburban schools or in other charters that will allow them to progress to the next grade despite low test scores.

DCPS has very set rules around promotion and retention. It can happen but for students who are multiple years behind (and there are many), there are significant administrative burdens and approvals needed to do so.

Per 5-E DCMR § 2201.4(a), a student cannot be retained more than once during the student's enrollment in DCPS unless there is a comprehensive review by multiple school personnel and approval from the Instructional Superintendent whose jurisdiction encompasses the school the student attends.

Exactly, social promotion. That doesn't mean everyone in DCPS gets socially promoted, but it does mean when you look at average test scores for DCPS schools, it includes students who may be a year or more behind academically which will obviously pull average scores down.

Whereas BASIS does not do social promotion, and kids who cannot keep up even with summer school simply leave the school, which results in higher average test scores.

It does not mean that BASIS magically is able to pull up kids who test poorly and get them to test higher. It means these students leave the school.

What people who aren't at the school are missing is that BASIS also helps kids figure out how to do well.

They have free tutoring available after school. They teach them how to use a planner and make study guides and flash cards. The teachers all have office hours and are available to answer questions. And the way they teach, through handwritten note taking, is more conducive to learning.

Yes, some kids wash out. But it is more similar to the Mississippi system of having high standards and ALSO helping kids meet them, compared to DCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BASIS allows all students who are not likely to advance a grade to take summer classes and retake exams to pass to the next grade. They are also welcome to stay and repeat a grade. Many students do this rather than go to their IB abysmal DCPS options.

Which is more like the Mississippi option - and I cannot believe that Mississippi is better at educating students than DC!!

Sure, and the students who take those options are students who are committed to improving their test scores and who have families who can support it. Again, it's a form of self selection.

I'm not saying it's a bad model if the goal is high test scores. It obviously works well at BASIS. But it's literally not available to other public schools. DCPS also offers summer classes and tutoring to students who are identified as below grade level. However it cannot force them to stay back a grade if they don't show up for the summer classes and tutoring, or if they show up and it still doesn't work. They have to just keep educating those kids the best they can. And where do you think the kids who can't stay on track at BASIS even with the summer classes wind up? They don't stay at BASIS. They wind up in DCPS or in suburban schools or in other charters that will allow them to progress to the next grade despite low test scores.

DCPS has very set rules around promotion and retention. It can happen but for students who are multiple years behind (and there are many), there are significant administrative burdens and approvals needed to do so.

Per 5-E DCMR § 2201.4(a), a student cannot be retained more than once during the student's enrollment in DCPS unless there is a comprehensive review by multiple school personnel and approval from the Instructional Superintendent whose jurisdiction encompasses the school the student attends.

Exactly, social promotion. That doesn't mean everyone in DCPS gets socially promoted, but it does mean when you look at average test scores for DCPS schools, it includes students who may be a year or more behind academically which will obviously pull average scores down.

Whereas BASIS does not do social promotion, and kids who cannot keep up even with summer school simply leave the school, which results in higher average test scores.

It does not mean that BASIS magically is able to pull up kids who test poorly and get them to test higher. It means these students leave the school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BASIS allows all students who are not likely to advance a grade to take summer classes and retake exams to pass to the next grade. They are also welcome to stay and repeat a grade. Many students do this rather than go to their IB abysmal DCPS options.

Which is more like the Mississippi option - and I cannot believe that Mississippi is better at educating students than DC!!

Sure, and the students who take those options are students who are committed to improving their test scores and who have families who can support it. Again, it's a form of self selection.

I'm not saying it's a bad model if the goal is high test scores. It obviously works well at BASIS. But it's literally not available to other public schools. DCPS also offers summer classes and tutoring to students who are identified as below grade level. However it cannot force them to stay back a grade if they don't show up for the summer classes and tutoring, or if they show up and it still doesn't work. They have to just keep educating those kids the best they can. And where do you think the kids who can't stay on track at BASIS even with the summer classes wind up? They don't stay at BASIS. They wind up in DCPS or in suburban schools or in other charters that will allow them to progress to the next grade despite low test scores.

DCPS has very set rules around promotion and retention. It can happen but for students who are multiple years behind (and there are many), there are significant administrative burdens and approvals needed to do so.

Per 5-E DCMR § 2201.4(a), a student cannot be retained more than once during the student's enrollment in DCPS unless there is a comprehensive review by multiple school personnel and approval from the Instructional Superintendent whose jurisdiction encompasses the school the student attends.

Anonymous wrote:BASIS allows all students who are not likely to advance a grade to take summer classes and retake exams to pass to the next grade. They are also welcome to stay and repeat a grade. Many students do this rather than go to their IB abysmal DCPS options.

Which is more like the Mississippi option - and I cannot believe that Mississippi is better at educating students than DC!!

Sure, and the students who take those options are students who are committed to improving their test scores and who have families who can support it. Again, it's a form of self selection.

I'm not saying it's a bad model if the goal is high test scores. It obviously works well at BASIS. But it's literally not available to other public schools. DCPS also offers summer classes and tutoring to students who are identified as below grade level. However it cannot force them to stay back a grade if they don't show up for the summer classes and tutoring, or if they show up and it still doesn't work. They have to just keep educating those kids the best they can. And where do you think the kids who can't stay on track at BASIS even with the summer classes wind up? They don't stay at BASIS. They wind up in DCPS or in suburban schools or in other charters that will allow them to progress to the next grade despite low test scores.

BASIS allows all students who are not likely to advance a grade to take summer classes and retake exams to pass to the next grade. They are also welcome to stay and repeat a grade. Many students do this rather than go to their IB abysmal DCPS options.

Which is more like the Mississippi option - and I cannot believe that Mississippi is better at educating students than DC!!

Anonymous wrote:For high school, you can look at average SAT score.

For example, B-CC is in wealthy Montgomery County, MD and has an average SAT score of 1203, and Wakefield in Arlington, one of the wealthiest areas in Virginia, has an average SAT score of 1230.

In contrast, BASIS DC has an average SAT score of 1340.

You simply can't generalize that every suburban school is better than every DC public school.

It's important to understand, though, that unlike virtually every other public school in the region, BASIS is allowed to engage in an "up or out" system where kids will not advance in grade if they don't pass an test at the end of the prior year. They don't technically kick people out, but generally when faced with potentially having to repeat an entire course at BASIS, families voluntarily move their kids. And since BASIS is not required to backfill the vacated spots, what you wind up with is high school classes filled with very strong test takers.

No other school can do that. B-CC and Wakefield cannot just kick in boundary students out for failing to pass a test, and they have to be accountable to families within their boundaries who will complain or freak out if their kid isn't passed up to the next grade or is asked to repeat Geometry or something.

BASIS has found a way out of being a true lottery school and essentially back their way into being a magnet school for kids who are very strong in math and have excellent test taking skills. Yes, the school also emphasizes these skill sets, but since kids who don't already have strengths in this area are penalized by the school, they generally opt out on their own.

I agree you can't generalize but you need to understand the differences in these schools. There are kids at Wakefield, B-CC, JR, and dozens of other schools in this area who outperform BASIS students on both standardized tests and college admissions. But they go to school with kids who don't. That's the only difference. BASIS gets rid of the students who score very poorly on standardized tests long before they take the SAT. Of course their average is higher.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For high school, you can look at average SAT score.

For example, B-CC is in wealthy Montgomery County, MD and has an average SAT score of 1203, and Wakefield in Arlington, one of the wealthiest areas in Virginia, has an average SAT score of 1230.

In contrast, BASIS DC has an average SAT score of 1340.

You simply can't generalize that every suburban school is better than every DC public school.

Out of curiosity what is Latin?

According to niche, Latins average SAT score is 1200. I don't know if that's right.


I actually don't think SAT is that correlated with schools (speaking as a former NMSF who went to terrible public schools). It's mostly correlated with IQ, and also a bit with wealth (bc test prep also works).

Anonymous wrote:For high school, you can look at average SAT score.

For example, B-CC is in wealthy Montgomery County, MD and has an average SAT score of 1203, and Wakefield in Arlington, one of the wealthiest areas in Virginia, has an average SAT score of 1230.

In contrast, BASIS DC has an average SAT score of 1340.

You simply can't generalize that every suburban school is better than every DC public school.

Out of curiosity what is Latin?