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Anonymous wrote:I don’t like being a sheep, so I seek out things I actually like. I tend to favor items that are unique, hard to find. Other women seem to admire that.
Women who feel they have to wear the label everyone else is wearing are just obviously trying to ft in and show off, why not be yourself?

I think the issue is that a lot of women don't have a unique self to be. This is who they are -- sheep who will buy and wear what they were told by the powers that be, which in this case are other women who similarly are risk averse and unoriginal.

Let the lemmings run.

I love unique jewelry but am otherwise pretty basic in my style.

I don’t think women are “sheep,” exactly. But having “unique” style takes a pretty high investment of time and energy and experimentation. Even fairly wealthy women may not be interested in that. It’s like dressing for work- sometimes I want a uniform type outfit because I want my morning routine to be quick. For a lot of women that basic look is attractive enough and quick enough to figure out. I don’t begrudge anyone that.

Sure. I have a work uniform. It consists of blouses from Nordstrom, dress pants and skirts and cardigans and blazers etc. Not. Single one of them is from an “It” brand or conspicuously displays a label. Going out of one’s way to wear the coveted items is different than just wanting to simplify.

That’s not what I mean by simplify. I mean that when I travel I go out of my way to find expensive hand made jewelry that catches my eye. I want it to be seen on me and I love when I get compliments.

Another woman will buy a Cartier bracelet because she wants to be seen and she wants people around her to be aware of her social standing. She doesn’t want to wander around some market in the third world in 100 degree heat looking for a silver collar, she just wants to look pretty. She doesn’t want to search for some outfit that is “unique,” she just wants to buy something from lululemon that shows off that she doesn’t skip leg day.

None of this is a problem, none of this says anything particularly important about anyone.

I’d be surprised if you really believed this. There are tons of ways to be pretty and show you don’t skip leg day than buying lululemon leggings or whatever the latest in athleisure is. In fact, it was only about that, you would never need to go to whatever the next latest brand is.

Yes, there are tons of ways to be pretty. But people are LAZY and being unique all the time takes work and is a little bit of a risk.

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Anonymous wrote:Well, this devolved quickly. We got some really insightful posts up front, but no, it’s not that anyone “hates” this woman. It’s just that she’s stupid, a sheep, and a lemming. Ouch.

Now who’s the mean girl?

An adult woman having preferences and making judgements is not being a "mean girl." Everyone does this. Most people recognize and accept that people do it to them, too.

Agreed if that’s all that was said.But calling someone a sheep or lemming is mean.

Are you feeling attacked because you have a Cartier love bracelet on right now?

I think the sensitivity stems from buying these items thinking it says something positive about them, and discovering that it may actually convey something negative.

Like I think women will covet a Cartier love bracelet thinking "if I get one of those I will look sophisticated and stylish." And then they get it and read online that many people associate that specific item with being a sheep and having no style. It's upsetting because it has the exact opposite effect they had hoped.

But that how fashion trends work and why the best advice is to never buy a trend unless you would like it even if no one else was wearing it. Because trends can turn and then you're just a fashion victim with a very expensive bracelet that seems generic and basic.

This.
But do we honestly think women buying a neverfull or a love bracelet or lulu think they are signaling style and sophistication? I have lulu leggings and just assume when I wear them people think I am being a basic b***h and that’s fine. Then have more interesting items for when I want to be more interesting

I do think women think that, actually. I think a lot of these things are aspirational. Not Lululemon but the designer stuff especially. It's a safe way to buy into a brand like LV or Cartier without making a real affirmative style choice (which could go wrong) but to still feel like you get that aura of this highly recognizable luxury brand. I think people are buying that aura when they buy these items. And it's very similar to when I was in college and a lot of women I knew would ask for those Tiffany heart lock necklaces and bracelets as gifts for birthdays and holidays. They weren't even that expensive, but they were Tiffany and that mattered to people. And in my 20s the diffusion lines of really recognizable designers were big because it was a way to get a piece of the designer pie for less -- a Marc by Marc Jacobs bag offered you a little of the coolness of MJ without the price tag. I think the love bracelet and the Neverfull is just a continuation of those same impulses, but on a bigger budget for an older woman with kids. If at every level of your life there has been these brand items that say "I belong, I've arrived," it becomes this security blanket and it's hard to let go of.

But it's only a certain kind of person who experiences this kind of life. If you don't have wealthy or UMC parents, you probably never get those Tiffany heart lock pendants. Marc by Marc might be cheaper than Marc Jacobs but it's not cheap -- you need enough disposable income in your 20s to spend a few hundred on a purse (or, again, parents who will pick that up for you). Then you have to have the income, or the spouse with the income, to spend 3k on a Neverfull or 5k on a Cartier love bracelet. It's not a large group of people who fall into this category, but if you do fall into this category, it's all you've ever known so it just seems normal to you.

And that's the disconnect. From the outside, that looks [accurately] like deep privilege -- to have always lived with so much that there is always money to buy these status symbols and keep up with your peers. But from the inside, it's just "hey my friend has the cutest purse, I want one too." It is absolutely about buying status, sophistication, style either way, but depending on which side of that line you grew up on, that's either totally expected and normal or tacky AF. Both takes are right. Both takes are wrong. It's very subjective.

Okay. I live in the Midwest, but I don’t know any adult women who wear lululemon. It’s mostly something teens and tweens wear.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this devolved quickly. We got some really insightful posts up front, but no, it’s not that anyone “hates” this woman. It’s just that she’s stupid, a sheep, and a lemming. Ouch.

Now who’s the mean girl?

An adult woman having preferences and making judgements is not being a "mean girl." Everyone does this. Most people recognize and accept that people do it to them, too.

Agreed if that’s all that was said.But calling someone a sheep or lemming is mean.

Are you feeling attacked because you have a Cartier love bracelet on right now?

I think the sensitivity stems from buying these items thinking it says something positive about them, and discovering that it may actually convey something negative.

Like I think women will covet a Cartier love bracelet thinking "if I get one of those I will look sophisticated and stylish." And then they get it and read online that many people associate that specific item with being a sheep and having no style. It's upsetting because it has the exact opposite effect they had hoped.

But that how fashion trends work and why the best advice is to never buy a trend unless you would like it even if no one else was wearing it. Because trends can turn and then you're just a fashion victim with a very expensive bracelet that seems generic and basic.

This.
But do we honestly think women buying a neverfull or a love bracelet or lulu think they are signaling style and sophistication? I have lulu leggings and just assume when I wear them people think I am being a basic b***h and that’s fine. Then have more interesting items for when I want to be more interesting

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t like being a sheep, so I seek out things I actually like. I tend to favor items that are unique, hard to find. Other women seem to admire that.
Women who feel they have to wear the label everyone else is wearing are just obviously trying to ft in and show off, why not be yourself?

I think the issue is that a lot of women don't have a unique self to be. This is who they are -- sheep who will buy and wear what they were told by the powers that be, which in this case are other women who similarly are risk averse and unoriginal.

Let the lemmings run.

I love unique jewelry but am otherwise pretty basic in my style.

I don’t think women are “sheep,” exactly. But having “unique” style takes a pretty high investment of time and energy and experimentation. Even fairly wealthy women may not be interested in that. It’s like dressing for work- sometimes I want a uniform type outfit because I want my morning routine to be quick. For a lot of women that basic look is attractive enough and quick enough to figure out. I don’t begrudge anyone that.

Sure. I have a work uniform. It consists of blouses from Nordstrom, dress pants and skirts and cardigans and blazers etc. Not. Single one of them is from an “It” brand or conspicuously displays a label. Going out of one’s way to wear the coveted items is different than just wanting to simplify.

That’s not what I mean by simplify. I mean that when I travel I go out of my way to find expensive hand made jewelry that catches my eye. I want it to be seen on me and I love when I get compliments.

Another woman will buy a Cartier bracelet because she wants to be seen and she wants people around her to be aware of her social standing. She doesn’t want to wander around some market in the third world in 100 degree heat looking for a silver collar, she just wants to look pretty. She doesn’t want to search for some outfit that is “unique,” she just wants to buy something from lululemon that shows off that she doesn’t skip leg day.

None of this is a problem, none of this says anything particularly important about anyone.

I’d be surprised if you really believed this. There are tons of ways to be pretty and show you don’t skip leg day than buying lululemon leggings or whatever the latest in athleisure is. In fact, it was only about that, you would never need to go to whatever the next latest brand is.

We have a lot more money than our friends and neighbors just by twists of fate, and I do think having a lot of “designer” clothes or a fancy car would raise some eyebrows.

It's all performance art: costume and drag. But the eye of the beholder frequently sees something different than the artist intends. And I'm guessing what we see depends on the media we consume as well as the fashion industrial complex as a whole. Just my guess. Love this thread.

Anonymous wrote:This. I'm 38. I can't imagine looking at another women and going "ugh, she's wearing a Love Bracelet. Clearly she's a materialistic lemming and I should immediately judge her and decide she's not worth getting to know based off what she's wearing. ".
It's so juvenile. I'm boring. I barely wear jewelry and my hair is usually in a messy bun or pony. My best friend never leaves the house without a full face of makeup. Yet she's the kindest and most generous person I've ever met. It just seems SO weird to me that grown ass women are making these snap judgements based off clothes and accessories.

Yeah, no. Nobody is talking about just a bracelet, or just some highlighted hair (as another PP avowed).

I think you're smart enough to read what people actually wrote, and it was never just about one or two things. Pretty lame.

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Humans are inherently insecure and scared of being judged as or discriminated for being poor, ugly or underprivileged.

And so they are easily influenced to buy overpriced “designer” items just to be judged for that…

Humans are inherently insecure and scared of being judged as or discriminated for being poor, ugly or underprivileged.

Anonymous wrote:It’s privilege performance art.

This^.

Materialism and classism are tacky no matter how high is the budget or how refined is the taste of the person signaling these virtues.

Anonymous wrote:People like to put other people in boxes. Especially women.

True but men are the force behind boxing people in race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, class, ethnicity, sects, political affiliation etc etc.

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Anonymous wrote:Ladies, life is waaay too short for all of this.

This. I'm 38. I can't imagine looking at another women and going "ugh, she's wearing a Love Bracelet. Clearly she's a materialistic lemming and I should immediately judge her and decide she's not worth getting to know based off what she's wearing. ".
It's so juvenile. I'm boring. I barely wear jewelry and my hair is usually in a messy bun or pony. My best friend never leaves the house without a full face of makeup. Yet she's the kindest and most generous person I've ever met. It just seems SO weird to me that grown ass women are making these snap judgements based off clothes and accessories.

Most people aren't making those judgments though. Even on this thread, people aren't saying they assume women who dress this way are bad people.

People are saying they judge the style. They are saying they see the woman in the Cartier bracelet and think "ugh there's that Cartier bracelet again -- I'm so tired of seeing it and I don't understand why anyone wastes their money on it." Yes there is some implied judgment of the woman there but it's not writing her off entirely. It's just having a certain association with these items.

And everyone does that. Yes, even you. If you saw a woman wearing ripped black tights and goth makeup and piercings, you wouldn't draw some conclusions about her as a person? And I'm sure there are certain styles you just don't care for and think look dumb or tacky or boring. Some people hate tattoos. Some people freak out about visible panty lines or bra straps. Some people hate message tees that or visible logos. And some people roll their eyes at love bracelets and Neverfulls.

If no one ever judged anyone for their clothes or style, we'd all just wear the same thing and the fashion industry would not exist.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t like being a sheep, so I seek out things I actually like. I tend to favor items that are unique, hard to find. Other women seem to admire that.
Women who feel they have to wear the label everyone else is wearing are just obviously trying to ft in and show off, why not be yourself?

I think the issue is that a lot of women don't have a unique self to be. This is who they are -- sheep who will buy and wear what they were told by the powers that be, which in this case are other women who similarly are risk averse and unoriginal.

Let the lemmings run.

I love unique jewelry but am otherwise pretty basic in my style.

I don’t think women are “sheep,” exactly. But having “unique” style takes a pretty high investment of time and energy and experimentation. Even fairly wealthy women may not be interested in that. It’s like dressing for work- sometimes I want a uniform type outfit because I want my morning routine to be quick. For a lot of women that basic look is attractive enough and quick enough to figure out. I don’t begrudge anyone that.

Sure. I have a work uniform. It consists of blouses from Nordstrom, dress pants and skirts and cardigans and blazers etc. Not. Single one of them is from an “It” brand or conspicuously displays a label. Going out of one’s way to wear the coveted items is different than just wanting to simplify.

That’s not what I mean by simplify. I mean that when I travel I go out of my way to find expensive hand made jewelry that catches my eye. I want it to be seen on me and I love when I get compliments.

Another woman will buy a Cartier bracelet because she wants to be seen and she wants people around her to be aware of her social standing. She doesn’t want to wander around some market in the third world in 100 degree heat looking for a silver collar, she just wants to look pretty. She doesn’t want to search for some outfit that is “unique,” she just wants to buy something from lululemon that shows off that she doesn’t skip leg day.

None of this is a problem, none of this says anything particularly important about anyone.

I get what you are saying, but it’s not just about looking pretty, it’s about being in style and looking like everyone else. If it were really just about wanting to look pretty, then she wouldn’t have given all of her Lily Pulitzer dresses away in 2017, and she would still be wearing that Cartier bracelet 10 years from now.

Or she'd buy a more practical item than a Cartier bracelet. A basic gold bangle from any jeweler would serve the same purpose in terms of visual style but cost less and, because not such a recognizable designer item, less likely to attract thieves or pickpockets.

You buy the Cartier bracelet because people see it and think "that's the Cartier love bracelet" and know how much it cost you.

Buying this stuff is not about practicality or just having an easy uniform. I could put together a complete wardrobe of good quality basics including a couple bags, a full suite of jewelry, and shoes, for about 5-8k, or the cost of a single Cartier bracelet. If you have a bit of money, you can pay someone like me to do this for you and have a stylish wardrobe that makes dressing super easy. But I wouldn't include any of these items because they are all poorly priced for what they are and their recognizability actually makes them less practical.

How do I hire someone like you? What do you charge?

When I was styling, I charged anywhere from $500-4k depending on whether I was just doing a little wardrobe refresh or putting together a work capsule, or doing a full overhaul with multiple fittings and designing outfits with a reference binder (so the client could just flip to "fall casual", select an outfit, and have a list of everything in it including accessories and hair and makeup styling). This was over 5 years ago so I would expect to pay more now due to inflation. Plus of course the client will pay for anything they decide to buy. I could often get clients discounts at certain stores for working with me because I had a relationship with the store so they'd offer me 5-10% off when I'd submit order over a certain amount.

I found clients via referrals from several stores I worked with. All local boutiques (department stores and chains like Intermix have in house styling generally) -- sometimes I'd do events for them for free or a super low fee and do short styling sessions with women who came in. Win-win since it would get customers in the door and also help me build contacts. I also sometimes did their window design for free in exchange for referrals. Once you have a few solid clients it's just word of mouth. I think these days a lot of stylists also find clients via Instagram. The capsule dressing things is big now too, so you can buy capsule planners with specific product recommendations and lots of outfit suggestions from capsule stylists online for cheap -- I've seen these for like $50-100 and then you just source the items in the capsule yourself.

So I'd check with local boutiques, browse Instagram, check out some of the capsule dressing sites.