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Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.

Which schools are under capacity and then you also need busses/drivers, etc. to get them there? You keep saying there are a lot of under capacity but which ones?

DP. The significantly under capacity high schools are Magruder, Sherwood, Springbrook, Watkins Mill, and Wootton.

Some of those are in the middle of nowhere so it would be hard to put more kids there. But, you can cosa in and your kids can be in a less crowded school.

You didn't actually look into this. Let's take Magruder - in a few years it will be at or over capacity.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04510.pdf

The latest available projections from the CIP are all here:

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP26_AppendixE.pdf

Capacity means the max number, its a good thing if they are under that.

Except if there are overcrowded schools in the area. Springbrook has enough capacity to alleviate Blake and Paint Branch overcrowding, and they're all in the same consortium.

And this conversation is why a boundary study is needed. It makes zero sense to have overcapacity schools near under capacity schools. And certainly within a choice consortium model area it makes no sense. Kids should go to local schools near their houses with boundaries created to not cause overcrowding. As population growth areas change so too should school boundaries. It should be normal to expect boundaries to shift. And it would even make sense for special programs to shift locations. Already crowded schools do not need special programs to pull more kids. These programs should be at the under capacity schools. And in years to come areas can be re-zoned again and programs moved again so schools stay at capacity. And yes closing a school if there are not numbers of sustain it makes sense. And, re-opening it later if numbers grow makes sense as well. What makes no fiscal sense is running MCPS with more schools than needed to accommodate the actual number of students or having severely overcrowded schools with kids in portables near under capacity schools with empty seats. I hope MCPS takes a real look at capacity and makes some hard choices if needed. Right now I see lots of parents defending the right of their fiefdom/school to stay as is regardless of if that makes numerical sense.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.

Which schools are under capacity and then you also need busses/drivers, etc. to get them there? You keep saying there are a lot of under capacity but which ones?

DP. The significantly under capacity high schools are Magruder, Sherwood, Springbrook, Watkins Mill, and Wootton.

Some of those are in the middle of nowhere so it would be hard to put more kids there. But, you can cosa in and your kids can be in a less crowded school.

You didn't actually look into this. Let's take Magruder - in a few years it will be at or over capacity.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04510.pdf

The latest available projections from the CIP are all here:

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP26_AppendixE.pdf

Capacity means the max number, its a good thing if they are under that.

Except if there are overcrowded schools in the area. Springbrook has enough capacity to alleviate Blake and Paint Branch overcrowding, and they're all in the same consortium.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.

Evidence? Citation?

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Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

As said earlier in this thread, OTs, SLPs, Special Ed SWs, even the people who test newcomer students in schools, all these are assigned to CO when they are in multiple schools.

Therapeutic Counselors as well. But by all means cut all of these "extra" CO positions. Just don't cry about your kids not receiving their services later on.

I have had multiple Zoom calls with the "school-based" CO staff who support special education students. They are sitting in their homes and I am at school, staying late, to participate in these meetings.

That’s how I felt when I had meetings with MVA people. They have their refrigerator in the background and their dog on their lap. I’m being called on the radio, the fire alarm is going off, and a kid is having a meltdown in my office.

But, parents went crazy over the MVA closing.

Well yeah, it disturbed their vibe when their students had to rejoin in-person school communities.

And now the last two parents are going crazy because MCPS doesn't have the money or the teachers to bring back the failed program.

The school has higher test scores than some in person. By your logic all underperforming schools should be closed. What is your obsession?

What’s yours? MVA didn’t exist prior to the pandemic and no promised it would exist forever following said pandemic. There is not enough medically frail students to make it fiscally viable without it serving other student needs. And in that case it would need to include other teachers for select periods.

That's why a state program would work better than a district-level program. Even then it might not have enough students, so states may need to partner on such a program.

Ok, what would that look like? Who would pay for it? If you are talking about Virtual VA, that's not a state program. It's a private company that gets paid per county so that would take away county funding. A state option is not possible, or it would have happened AND who would pay for the private school? You keep pushing something that makes no sense for anyone.

Any way to implement it takes money away from schools. So you want to limit it to students that cannot go to school in-person.

There are three natural options for implementing it:
1) The state administers and operates a program using state funding (including funding that would ordinarily go to the counties)
2) The state administers a program through a contract to a private school, with a similar funding structure.
3) The state partners with one or more counties to operate a program, with cross-district enrollment available through IEP/504 accomodations as deemed necessary. Districts would pay similar to special education programs.

That's not how it works. The state does not operate schools. So, that's out. The amount of state funds MCPS gets is small. It wouldn't cover tuition. MCPS would have to pay the tuition. If they used a private program like they do for special needs, it would cost more than it would to run it in-house. Do the math. You are throwing out ideas, but your bad ideas show you haven't thought them through.

Why are you so invested in telling others how they should educate their children? You do what's best for you and they will do whats best for their kids. MCPS claims innovation, equity and more - there is zero reason given the huge budget should not have a virtual school.

The state certainly could run a school, either themselves or through a contract to a private operator. While it wouldn't necessarily be cheaper, having a broader set of students pulling from districts across the state could support a broader set of courses than would be practical for a single district. And at the elementary level, there aren't enough students with medical needs in MCPS to even support a class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.

Which schools are under capacity and then you also need busses/drivers, etc. to get them there? You keep saying there are a lot of under capacity but which ones?

DP. The significantly under capacity high schools are Magruder, Sherwood, Springbrook, Watkins Mill, and Wootton.

Those are all schools under 2000 enrollment but aren’t they also smaller in terms of square footage?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.

Which schools are under capacity and then you also need busses/drivers, etc. to get them there? You keep saying there are a lot of under capacity but which ones?

DP. The significantly under capacity high schools are Magruder, Sherwood, Springbrook, Watkins Mill, and Wootton.

Some of those are in the middle of nowhere so it would be hard to put more kids there. But, you can cosa in and your kids can be in a less crowded school.

You didn't actually look into this. Let's take Magruder - in a few years it will be at or over capacity.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04510.pdf

The latest available projections from the CIP are all here:

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP26_AppendixE.pdf

Capacity means the max number, its a good thing if they are under that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.

Which schools are under capacity and then you also need busses/drivers, etc. to get them there? You keep saying there are a lot of under capacity but which ones?

DP. The significantly under capacity high schools are Magruder, Sherwood, Springbrook, Watkins Mill, and Wootton.

Some of those are in the middle of nowhere so it would be hard to put more kids there. But, you can cosa in and your kids can be in a less crowded school.

You didn't actually look into this. Let's take Magruder - in a few years it will be at or over capacity.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04510.pdf

The latest available projections from the CIP are all here:

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP26_AppendixE.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.

Which schools are under capacity and then you also need busses/drivers, etc. to get them there? You keep saying there are a lot of under capacity but which ones?

DP. The significantly under capacity high schools are Magruder, Sherwood, Springbrook, Watkins Mill, and Wootton.

Some of those are in the middle of nowhere so it would be hard to put more kids there. But, you can cosa in and your kids can be in a less crowded school.

You didn't actually look into this. Let's take Magruder - in a few years it will be at or over capacity.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04510.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

As said earlier in this thread, OTs, SLPs, Special Ed SWs, even the people who test newcomer students in schools, all these are assigned to CO when they are in multiple schools.

Therapeutic Counselors as well. But by all means cut all of these "extra" CO positions. Just don't cry about your kids not receiving their services later on.

I have had multiple Zoom calls with the "school-based" CO staff who support special education students. They are sitting in their homes and I am at school, staying late, to participate in these meetings.

That’s how I felt when I had meetings with MVA people. They have their refrigerator in the background and their dog on their lap. I’m being called on the radio, the fire alarm is going off, and a kid is having a meltdown in my office.

But, parents went crazy over the MVA closing.

Well yeah, it disturbed their vibe when their students had to rejoin in-person school communities.

And now the last two parents are going crazy because MCPS doesn't have the money or the teachers to bring back the failed program.

The school has higher test scores than some in person. By your logic all underperforming schools should be closed. What is your obsession?

What’s yours? MVA didn’t exist prior to the pandemic and no promised it would exist forever following said pandemic. There is not enough medically frail students to make it fiscally viable without it serving other student needs. And in that case it would need to include other teachers for select periods.

That's why a state program would work better than a district-level program. Even then it might not have enough students, so states may need to partner on such a program.

Ok, what would that look like? Who would pay for it? If you are talking about Virtual VA, that's not a state program. It's a private company that gets paid per county so that would take away county funding. A state option is not possible, or it would have happened AND who would pay for the private school? You keep pushing something that makes no sense for anyone.

Any way to implement it takes money away from schools. So you want to limit it to students that cannot go to school in-person.

There are three natural options for implementing it:
1) The state administers and operates a program using state funding (including funding that would ordinarily go to the counties)
2) The state administers a program through a contract to a private school, with a similar funding structure.
3) The state partners with one or more counties to operate a program, with cross-district enrollment available through IEP/504 accomodations as deemed necessary. Districts would pay similar to special education programs.

That's not how it works. The state does not operate schools. So, that's out. The amount of state funds MCPS gets is small. It wouldn't cover tuition. MCPS would have to pay the tuition. If they used a private program like they do for special needs, it would cost more than it would to run it in-house. Do the math. You are throwing out ideas, but your bad ideas show you haven't thought them through.

Why are you so invested in telling others how they should educate their children? You do what's best for you and they will do whats best for their kids. MCPS claims innovation, equity and more - there is zero reason given the huge budget should not have a virtual school.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.

Which schools are under capacity and then you also need busses/drivers, etc. to get them there? You keep saying there are a lot of under capacity but which ones?

DP. The significantly under capacity high schools are Magruder, Sherwood, Springbrook, Watkins Mill, and Wootton.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

As said earlier in this thread, OTs, SLPs, Special Ed SWs, even the people who test newcomer students in schools, all these are assigned to CO when they are in multiple schools.

Therapeutic Counselors as well. But by all means cut all of these "extra" CO positions. Just don't cry about your kids not receiving their services later on.

I have had multiple Zoom calls with the "school-based" CO staff who support special education students. They are sitting in their homes and I am at school, staying late, to participate in these meetings.

That’s how I felt when I had meetings with MVA people. They have their refrigerator in the background and their dog on their lap. I’m being called on the radio, the fire alarm is going off, and a kid is having a meltdown in my office.

But, parents went crazy over the MVA closing.

Well yeah, it disturbed their vibe when their students had to rejoin in-person school communities.

And now the last two parents are going crazy because MCPS doesn't have the money or the teachers to bring back the failed program.

The school has higher test scores than some in person. By your logic all underperforming schools should be closed. What is your obsession?

What’s yours? MVA didn’t exist prior to the pandemic and no promised it would exist forever following said pandemic. There is not enough medically frail students to make it fiscally viable without it serving other student needs. And in that case it would need to include other teachers for select periods.

That's why a state program would work better than a district-level program. Even then it might not have enough students, so states may need to partner on such a program.

Ok, what would that look like? Who would pay for it? If you are talking about Virtual VA, that's not a state program. It's a private company that gets paid per county so that would take away county funding. A state option is not possible, or it would have happened AND who would pay for the private school? You keep pushing something that makes no sense for anyone.

Any way to implement it takes money away from schools. So you want to limit it to students that cannot go to school in-person.

There are three natural options for implementing it:
1) The state administers and operates a program using state funding (including funding that would ordinarily go to the counties)
2) The state administers a program through a contract to a private school, with a similar funding structure.
3) The state partners with one or more counties to operate a program, with cross-district enrollment available through IEP/504 accomodations as deemed necessary. Districts would pay similar to special education programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

As said earlier in this thread, OTs, SLPs, Special Ed SWs, even the people who test newcomer students in schools, all these are assigned to CO when they are in multiple schools.

Therapeutic Counselors as well. But by all means cut all of these "extra" CO positions. Just don't cry about your kids not receiving their services later on.

I have had multiple Zoom calls with the "school-based" CO staff who support special education students. They are sitting in their homes and I am at school, staying late, to participate in these meetings.

That’s how I felt when I had meetings with MVA people. They have their refrigerator in the background and their dog on their lap. I’m being called on the radio, the fire alarm is going off, and a kid is having a meltdown in my office.

But, parents went crazy over the MVA closing.

Well yeah, it disturbed their vibe when their students had to rejoin in-person school communities.

And now the last two parents are going crazy because MCPS doesn't have the money or the teachers to bring back the failed program.

The school has higher test scores than some in person. By your logic all underperforming schools should be closed. What is your obsession?

What’s yours? MVA didn’t exist prior to the pandemic and no promised it would exist forever following said pandemic. There is not enough medically frail students to make it fiscally viable without it serving other student needs. And in that case it would need to include other teachers for select periods.

That's why a state program would work better than a district-level program. Even then it might not have enough students, so states may need to partner on such a program.

Ok, what would that look like? Who would pay for it? If you are talking about Virtual VA, that's not a state program. It's a private company that gets paid per county so that would take away county funding. A state option is not possible, or it would have happened AND who would pay for the private school? You keep pushing something that makes no sense for anyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

As said earlier in this thread, OTs, SLPs, Special Ed SWs, even the people who test newcomer students in schools, all these are assigned to CO when they are in multiple schools.

Therapeutic Counselors as well. But by all means cut all of these "extra" CO positions. Just don't cry about your kids not receiving their services later on.

I have had multiple Zoom calls with the "school-based" CO staff who support special education students. They are sitting in their homes and I am at school, staying late, to participate in these meetings.

That’s how I felt when I had meetings with MVA people. They have their refrigerator in the background and their dog on their lap. I’m being called on the radio, the fire alarm is going off, and a kid is having a meltdown in my office.

But, parents went crazy over the MVA closing.

Well yeah, it disturbed their vibe when their students had to rejoin in-person school communities.

And now the last two parents are going crazy because MCPS doesn't have the money or the teachers to bring back the failed program.

The school has higher test scores than some in person. By your logic all underperforming schools should be closed. What is your obsession?

What’s yours? MVA didn’t exist prior to the pandemic and no promised it would exist forever following said pandemic. There is not enough medically frail students to make it fiscally viable without it serving other student needs. And in that case it would need to include other teachers for select periods.

It was promised to families so stop making stuff up. The cost is minimal. And, what about the cost of losing a few hundred students who left? That is going to impact the budget as well. Taylor is irresponsible if he cannot make all this work with his money as MCPS is one of the highest-funded school systems. Let me guess you are part of the failures and trying to justify your actions when you should be fired. Please do us all a favor and quit. There are kids who cannot go in person or learn better virtually and the option should be available. It also should offer classes not availale at the in person schools during the school day which MC cannot do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.

Which schools are under capacity and then you also need busses/drivers, etc. to get them there? You keep saying there are a lot of under capacity but which ones?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What else since there's a massive shortfall?

We will find out once he releases the budget. I have heard central office and no student facing secondary school positions during his talk to the civic association. There will need to be more. I assume he plans to keep the increased class sizes started last year. I also head him mention issue in county with underutilized elementary schools projected to become more underutilized. I know the boundary study leaves out elementary school assignments but would not be shocked if he signaled willingness to close the most underutilized schools that are near schools that could take the displaced students. That would save large money. He could also eliminate some speciality academic programs that use MCPS busses. That would save money. He could lean into using Montgomery college more for upper level classes — as some high schools already do for classes above AP calculus and AP physics — and save money on teacher salaries/pensions by not having MCPS staff teach those classes while saying this makes it more equitable on opens access to higher level classes to all. He is going to have to cut some things that will anger parents.

Wouldn't that be the capital budget, rather than the operating budget?

The part that is operating budget not paying for the salaries of the staff from that building. So cafeteria staff, front desk, health room, janitorial, administrative etc…. And of course eliminating some teaching positions. Add in no upkeep, no utilities, no HVAC and no busses to that location The capital budget savings is on not doing any scheduled capital improvement projects. Closing an underutilized school when other nearby schools have enough capacity is a huge cost savings. Of course it stinks for the kids who were walking distance from the closed school. And it stinks for staff who hopefully all could be reassigned to schools with openings instead of loosing their jobs but fiscally it makes no sense to keep a school open that is under capacity and projected to remain that way or in the case of what MCPS shows for some areas continue shrinking. With budget constraints if taxes are not raised, MCPS can’t afford not to make the hard choices such as closing under capacity schools in geographies shown to have continued shirking school age population.

How many schools are under capacity and can the surrounding schools absorb new students, probably not.

There are a whole lot more under capacity schools than over capacity schools. To the point where MCPS can even close the over capacity schools, and their surrounding schools can absorb all those students that were in the over capacity school and still have extra room. MCPS doesn’t want you to know this cause then their budget might have to shrink (gasp). The more people think their schools are overcrowded the easier it is to keep asking for more money.