It helps to put things in perspective.

I just heard on NPR that less than 1% of all college undergrads attend an Ivy League school.

It was only 0.8% of all students yet these are the 8 schools that most parents/kids focus on. It’s not realistic.

Branch out.

I draw the line around T30-40

Anonymous wrote:Should my kid transfer if his school drops out of top 10 this year? lol FFS

He loves the school. Whether it drops from the 10s to the 20s- not going to make a difference. Great campus lifestyle.

Do people pick a school solely on highest rank they got in? That’s crazy. Mine didn’t. Best fit overall won. This includes locale, culture, climate, urban v suburban, ease in getting classes, class size, department, etc

No offense...but it doesn't sound like your kid attends school #150. Sounds like rankings mattered very much in picking a school (I guess it is Brown since they have seemingly dropped out of the top 10?) and Top 20 mattered and still matters to you.

“What about Rice, makes so many of you on DCUM overrate it? It has a 4.2 reputation score on Usnews lower than Vandy, Same as Emory and Georgetown.”

Duke has a 4.5 PA. Lower than most other top ten schools.

Should my kid transfer if his school drops out of top 10 this year? lol FFS

He loves the school. Whether it drops from the 10s to the 20s- not going to make a difference. Great campus lifestyle.

Do people pick a school solely on highest rank they got in? That’s crazy. Mine didn’t. Best fit overall won. This includes locale, culture, climate, urban v suburban, ease in getting classes, class size, department, etc

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth stem is terrible. Brown is meh. Plenty of STEM oriented kids rightfully would choose Northwestern.

This is true. You'd think for inclusion into the top ten, you'd have to be broadly good at everything. I don't think Brown or Dartmouth belong here precisely because they don't have much of a presence in engineering. Similarly, I don't think CalTech belongs here either because they have no presence at all in humanities or social sciences. Say what you will about MIT, but they have a great English department and a world class business school. It's obviously one of the world's best comprehensive universities.

But Brown, Dartmouth, and CalTech? No. If you can't compete in engineering or computer science in 2024, you shouldn't be included on any top 10 university list. Similarly, if you don't even have an English or History department, you are far too specialized to be ranked so high. Would replace those three with Cornell, Rice, and Berkeley, who are all good at everything and not notably weak in anything.

What does a ranking even mean if you are throwing in things that are extraneous to a person considering it? Does Consumer Reports combine huge pickups and sports cars in the same category?

Consumer Reports actually isn't dramatically different. They list their highest-ranked cars across all categories (so yes, you might see a Tesla alongside an F150 alongside a Prius, etc.). They also list the highest cars by SUV, compact, sedan, minivan, etc.

USNews breaks out their rankings by best business, engineering, math, chemistry, etc. if that's all you care about vs. how a school does overall.

Does anyone come in shopping for an F150 to use on their farm come away buying a Mini?

I don't get your point.

Does anyone who wants to study agriculture tto take over the family farm, attend one of the overall Top 10 schools that don't offer an agriculture program (at least I don't think any do)? I assume they don't even apply to those schools.

Do some people that think they want to purchase a minivan end up buying an SUV? Sure...and vice versa.

Anonymous wrote:i still contend heads on here will explode if under resourced shitholes for undergrad like berkeley is top 15

As they should

i still contend heads on here will explode if under resourced shitholes for undergrad like berkeley is top 15

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth stem is terrible. Brown is meh. Plenty of STEM oriented kids rightfully would choose Northwestern.

This is true. You'd think for inclusion into the top ten, you'd have to be broadly good at everything. I don't think Brown or Dartmouth belong here precisely because they don't have much of a presence in engineering. Similarly, I don't think CalTech belongs here either because they have no presence at all in humanities or social sciences. Say what you will about MIT, but they have a great English department and a world class business school. It's obviously one of the world's best comprehensive universities.

But Brown, Dartmouth, and CalTech? No. If you can't compete in engineering or computer science in 2024, you shouldn't be included on any top 10 university list. Similarly, if you don't even have an English or History department, you are far too specialized to be ranked so high. Would replace those three with Cornell, Rice, and Berkeley, who are all good at everything and not notably weak in anything.

What does a ranking even mean if you are throwing in things that are extraneous to a person considering it? Does Consumer Reports combine huge pickups and sports cars in the same category?

Consumer Reports actually isn't dramatically different. They list their highest-ranked cars across all categories (so yes, you might see a Tesla alongside an F150 alongside a Prius, etc.). They also list the highest cars by SUV, compact, sedan, minivan, etc.

USNews breaks out their rankings by best business, engineering, math, chemistry, etc. if that's all you care about vs. how a school does overall.

Does anyone come in shopping for an F150 to use on their farm come away buying a Mini?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth stem is terrible. Brown is meh. Plenty of STEM oriented kids rightfully would choose Northwestern.

This is true. You'd think for inclusion into the top ten, you'd have to be broadly good at everything. I don't think Brown or Dartmouth belong here precisely because they don't have much of a presence in engineering. Similarly, I don't think CalTech belongs here either because they have no presence at all in humanities or social sciences. Say what you will about MIT, but they have a great English department and a world class business school. It's obviously one of the world's best comprehensive universities.

But Brown, Dartmouth, and CalTech? No. If you can't compete in engineering or computer science in 2024, you shouldn't be included on any top 10 university list. Similarly, if you don't even have an English or History department, you are far too specialized to be ranked so high. Would replace those three with Cornell, Rice, and Berkeley, who are all good at everything and not notably weak in anything.

Hmmm...if well-rounded mattered---MIT and CalTech would not be T10.

Precisely, if my kid were pre-law or politics or history I wouldn’t be looking at MIT or CalTech, but certainly Dartmouth and Brown would make the cut. One of which has a med school and good bio and top public health.

Clearly you don’t know anything about MIT. It has a works class business school, Sloan. It has joint MD PhD program with Harvard. It has one of the top political science and economics departments. Top biology and chemistry programs. It’s much more than engineering.

This is what the previous poster was trying to say. MIT is a world class university in nearly every field, not just STEM. It's excellent in everything from English to economics. It has one of the best business schools in the world. It is nothing like tiny, little, highly-specialized CalTech. And it's a much more comprehensive university than Dartmouth or Brown.

Of course, comparing and ranking universities can be like comparing a Prius to a Mac Truck. If I'm only interested in a small EV, I'm probably not going to look at a F-350. Same with colleges. Until US News lets readers know what mysterious criteria there are using this year, it's all just pointless argument. Last year, as someone noted, US News was very clear that the quality of undergraduate teaching was NOT a factor in their rankings. So who knows what they're putting into this year's concoction.

Right now, it's just feelings. And people clearly have some feelings about CalTech, Brown, and Dartmouth because they don't match their own feelings about top 10 schools and the attributes and qualities that should be considered when making such lists. But, again, it's all pointless, not least because every school mentioned so far is a very good school.

Wait until we see where US News puts all the UCs this year. There were six in last year's top 30. That's what's really worthy of some arguments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth stem is terrible. Brown is meh. Plenty of STEM oriented kids rightfully would choose Northwestern.

This is true. You'd think for inclusion into the top ten, you'd have to be broadly good at everything. I don't think Brown or Dartmouth belong here precisely because they don't have much of a presence in engineering. Similarly, I don't think CalTech belongs here either because they have no presence at all in humanities or social sciences. Say what you will about MIT, but they have a great English department and a world class business school. It's obviously one of the world's best comprehensive universities.

But Brown, Dartmouth, and CalTech? No. If you can't compete in engineering or computer science in 2024, you shouldn't be included on any top 10 university list. Similarly, if you don't even have an English or History department, you are far too specialized to be ranked so high. Would replace those three with Cornell, Rice, and Berkeley, who are all good at everything and not notably weak in anything.

Hmmm...if well-rounded mattered---MIT and CalTech would not be T10.

Precisely, if my kid were pre-law or politics or history I wouldn’t be looking at MIT or CalTech, but certainly Dartmouth and Brown would make the cut. One of which has a med school and good bio and top public health.

Clearly you don’t know anything about MIT. It has a works class business school, Sloan. It has joint MD PhD program with Harvard. It has one of the top political science and economics departments. Top biology and chemistry programs. It’s much more than engineering.

Absolutely sh@tty campus life. Not a fun place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth stem is terrible. Brown is meh. Plenty of STEM oriented kids rightfully would choose Northwestern.

This is true. You'd think for inclusion into the top ten, you'd have to be broadly good at everything. I don't think Brown or Dartmouth belong here precisely because they don't have much of a presence in engineering. Similarly, I don't think CalTech belongs here either because they have no presence at all in humanities or social sciences. Say what you will about MIT, but they have a great English department and a world class business school. It's obviously one of the world's best comprehensive universities.

But Brown, Dartmouth, and CalTech? No. If you can't compete in engineering or computer science in 2024, you shouldn't be included on any top 10 university list. Similarly, if you don't even have an English or History department, you are far too specialized to be ranked so high. Would replace those three with Cornell, Rice, and Berkeley, who are all good at everything and not notably weak in anything.

Hmmm...if well-rounded mattered---MIT and CalTech would not be T10.

Precisely, if my kid were pre-law or politics or history I wouldn’t be looking at MIT or CalTech, but certainly Dartmouth and Brown would make the cut. One of which has a med school and good bio and top public health.

Clearly you don’t know anything about MIT. It has a works class business school, Sloan. It has joint MD PhD program with Harvard. It has one of the top political science and economics departments. Top biology and chemistry programs. It’s much more than engineering.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone else think it is weird that Hopkins is tied with Caltech?

Why not Northwestern or Duke by that same token?

I mean Hopkins has humanities and is way more well rounded than Caltech

But it is no match for Caltech at what Caltech excels at

so what? Hopkins is higher ranked than most of the other top 10 for engineering and stem. And it wildly outranks caltech at social sciences and humanities.

You want to rank the top 10 Hopkins humanities department by itself?

So Caltech is better at everything it does than Hopkins.

not in bioengineering, biology, and anything medical related.

Caltech is better in biology and chemistry and physics and doesn't have a medical school.

Wrong

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-biology/

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-math/

Niche? USNEWS has Caltech higher for biology, math, chemistry, physics. . .

that's for graduate school and research. nice try though.

Niche has lists created by people who are not subject matter experts. Meaningless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth stem is terrible. Brown is meh. Plenty of STEM oriented kids rightfully would choose Northwestern.

This is true. You'd think for inclusion into the top ten, you'd have to be broadly good at everything. I don't think Brown or Dartmouth belong here precisely because they don't have much of a presence in engineering. Similarly, I don't think CalTech belongs here either because they have no presence at all in humanities or social sciences. Say what you will about MIT, but they have a great English department and a world class business school. It's obviously one of the world's best comprehensive universities.

But Brown, Dartmouth, and CalTech? No. If you can't compete in engineering or computer science in 2024, you shouldn't be included on any top 10 university list. Similarly, if you don't even have an English or History department, you are far too specialized to be ranked so high. Would replace those three with Cornell, Rice, and Berkeley, who are all good at everything and not notably weak in anything.

What about Rice, makes so many of you on DCUM overrate it? It has a 4.2 reputation score on Usnews lower than Vandy, Same as Emory and Georgetown.

Anonymous wrote:University education, a well-rounded college education is not about engineering solely. Majority don't give two f*ks about engineering.

There are known top schools for engineering and most of them are public.

That's why usnwr and others has category rankings---best for engineering, etc.

Top schools should be well-rounded and they should focus on UNDERGRADUATE teaching (in the undergrad rankings) and class size, etc.

USNWR completely excludes their own teaching ranking and now related items like class size, student faculty ration from their overall ranking. It didn't fit with the new list outcomes they are trying to arrive at.