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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising senior and have been doing the rounds of many top 25 schools (universities and colleges). We started with safety schools last year and then junior year grades came back so this summer we've been touring some top schools. My kid is trying to figure out an ED.
We have a rising junior as well so we have a couple of kids with us.

The more of these schools we tour, the less impressed I am. They're sort of all a bit falling apart, poorly maintained, with pretty odd students (tour guides, summer students and especially touring students alike--don't jump all over for for saying this--being brutally honest), little sense of community, same-old, same-old stuff about study-abroad, etc. Many have very large class sizes, etc.

I feel like we're (kid and parent alike) are supposed to love these schools and want to pay $90K for them and my kids can't find one they really like. I very, very, very much feel like we're being sold a product that we're supposed to want to buy because of prestige and name but when we see the product up close it doesn't look great and I feel like a sheep lining up to say "yes sir. let me put my kid through mental/emotional twister for a 5% chance of being admitted to your school and then I will gladly pay you $90K for the honor. Yes sir." It just feels... gross. Maybe not gross but yucky. My kids are like, "well I didn't really like this or that here but I could probably make it work." They too feel the pressure to LIKE these places. The Almighty XYZ or ABC school! It's supposed to be their dream!

Please don't jump on me. I know it's summer and we're not seeing the universities at their best but ugh. They're all kind of disappointing. I can't be the only one who feels this way? (I'm not going to name university/college names because then this post will turn into a giant thread about whatever school(s) I name.

Dumpy? Unimpressive, meaning structurally, academically, what? As you looking at colleges or real estate to purchase?

She is buying a service for $360k and expects the quality of the service to reflect the price paid.

When did people start thinking of education in this way?

Why wouldn't you at that price point? Why is college a thing people have come to expect to pay high dollar amounts without getting service/products for what you pay for? And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying.

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

Again: yes it is.

As pointed out earlier, there is always High Point.

I'm sorry but this is foolish. No the education isn't the only thing, and most colleges will emphasize that it isn't just an educational space. Colleges have become mini towns with high quality dorms, dining halls, funding for travel and emergencies, health clinics, mental health offices, etc. American education would be quite cheap if it were just about education, but, no, it's about resort towns with high quality amenities. Do you really think NYU has improved their education so much to justify a near $100k price? Even Harvard-why did it used to be 40k and is nearly 90k, what $50k difference in their education occurred, or did they just build a few more buildings and improve student life?

You are strawman-ing. The very different point responded to was regarding whether the statement "And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying." is correct. It is not - or at least it shouldn't be. If you turn down a better education and a better start in life because you don't like the dorms then you are foolish. Very foolish.

I don't see why. If DC decides to turn down Duke, who keeps their campus pristine and has a high student Quality of Life, over Harvard, I won't be kicking any buckets. I guess it matters if you're status obsessed.

Stop with the personal accusations, it does not become the discussion. It has nothing to do with status. Plenty of kids choose Duke and other peer schools over Harvard for many good reasons. The paint on the hallways of the dorm should not be one of them.

It's not accusations, and sorry but you were the first to pull out the strawman nonsense when the comment clearly stated you aren't paying for anything but the education which just isn't true. If you don't think updated dorms, a cultivated campus, nice academic buildings matter, that's fine, but some people do and it does impact their college decisions. Sorry but people do choose the college for the "paint on the hallways"

No, you are wrong. Calling me "status obsessed" is absolutely an accusation with no basis (because I am not).

The strawman was going on a tangent whether or not NYU was worth the cost. That is not the discussion in question and no one claimed it was, that is what makes it a strawman.

This thread is about top schools, and the point is that anyone who does the following (your quote follows):

Sorry but people do choose the college for the "paint on the hallways"

And chooses a lesser education because of "paint on the hallways" is a fool. That's a position I stand behind.

But you do you.

So you don't know what a strawman is. Stand by your position, fine, i find it status obsessed. Great, a truce.

Anonymous wrote:If you go to Bowdoin or Swat and eat in the cafeteria with high quality good and rooms with long tables and good lighting, you'll see kids lingering with friends. You'll see 4 or 6 or 8 at a table, refilling coffee cups, or one leaving for a class and another joining. It's social, it's community .. it's part of why we want our kids to have a residential college experience.

You go to Georgetown, you'll find Chili's level food in a couple dining halls that are cheap 80s food courts. Tables tightly arranged in parallel so it's hard to join a table if the aisle side seats are taken. The lighting is either mediocre or bad and the sound makes it hard to hear other people. And what you do you see? A lot of tables of two eating as quickly as possible. And even more tables of one who are eating while scrolling.

You dont think this stuff matters? You're wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High Point has an amazing campus and dorms.

OK and they did all that with a puny endowment of $128mand with a $67k TCOA, which raises the question of why can't the "elite" universities with vastly larger endowments and with a TCOA a third larger than HP have as nice a campus and dorms?

People here won't answer, because it is largely resembled by the hostility in this discussion. Parents have very low standards for elite colleges, because they will throw money at whatever the top-x school is. Colleges that have scrutiny and need to provide a good service tend to have a great campus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High Point has an amazing campus and dorms.

OK and they did all that with a puny endowment of $128mand with a $67k TCOA, which raises the question of why can't the "elite" universities with vastly larger endowments and with a TCOA a third larger than HP have as nice a campus and dorms?

People here won't answer, because it is largely resembled by the hostility in this discussion. Parents have very low standards for elite colleges, because they will throw money at whatever the top-x school is. Colleges that have scrutiny and need to provide a good service tend to have a great campus.

Maybe it's because they don't feel it is important? Because their educational product is so desired that they don't need to waste resources on making their dorms look like a Holiday Inn Express?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising senior and have been doing the rounds of many top 25 schools (universities and colleges). We started with safety schools last year and then junior year grades came back so this summer we've been touring some top schools. My kid is trying to figure out an ED.
We have a rising junior as well so we have a couple of kids with us.

The more of these schools we tour, the less impressed I am. They're sort of all a bit falling apart, poorly maintained, with pretty odd students (tour guides, summer students and especially touring students alike--don't jump all over for for saying this--being brutally honest), little sense of community, same-old, same-old stuff about study-abroad, etc. Many have very large class sizes, etc.

I feel like we're (kid and parent alike) are supposed to love these schools and want to pay $90K for them and my kids can't find one they really like. I very, very, very much feel like we're being sold a product that we're supposed to want to buy because of prestige and name but when we see the product up close it doesn't look great and I feel like a sheep lining up to say "yes sir. let me put my kid through mental/emotional twister for a 5% chance of being admitted to your school and then I will gladly pay you $90K for the honor. Yes sir." It just feels... gross. Maybe not gross but yucky. My kids are like, "well I didn't really like this or that here but I could probably make it work." They too feel the pressure to LIKE these places. The Almighty XYZ or ABC school! It's supposed to be their dream!

Please don't jump on me. I know it's summer and we're not seeing the universities at their best but ugh. They're all kind of disappointing. I can't be the only one who feels this way? (I'm not going to name university/college names because then this post will turn into a giant thread about whatever school(s) I name.

Dumpy? Unimpressive, meaning structurally, academically, what? As you looking at colleges or real estate to purchase?

She is buying a service for $360k and expects the quality of the service to reflect the price paid.

When did people start thinking of education in this way?

Why wouldn't you at that price point? Why is college a thing people have come to expect to pay high dollar amounts without getting service/products for what you pay for? And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying.

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

Again: yes it is.

As pointed out earlier, there is always High Point.

I'm sorry but this is foolish. No the education isn't the only thing, and most colleges will emphasize that it isn't just an educational space. Colleges have become mini towns with high quality dorms, dining halls, funding for travel and emergencies, health clinics, mental health offices, etc. American education would be quite cheap if it were just about education, but, no, it's about resort towns with high quality amenities. Do you really think NYU has improved their education so much to justify a near $100k price? Even Harvard-why did it used to be 40k and is nearly 90k, what $50k difference in their education occurred, or did they just build a few more buildings and improve student life?

You are strawman-ing. The very different point responded to was regarding whether the statement "And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying." is correct. It is not - or at least it shouldn't be. If you turn down a better education and a better start in life because you don't like the dorms then you are foolish. Very foolish.

I don't see why. If DC decides to turn down Duke, who keeps their campus pristine and has a high student Quality of Life, over Harvard, I won't be kicking any buckets. I guess it matters if you're status obsessed.

Stop with the personal accusations, it does not become the discussion. It has nothing to do with status. Plenty of kids choose Duke and other peer schools over Harvard for many good reasons. The paint on the hallways of the dorm should not be one of them.

It's not accusations, and sorry but you were the first to pull out the strawman nonsense when the comment clearly stated you aren't paying for anything but the education which just isn't true. If you don't think updated dorms, a cultivated campus, nice academic buildings matter, that's fine, but some people do and it does impact their college decisions. Sorry but people do choose the college for the "paint on the hallways"

No, you are wrong. Calling me "status obsessed" is absolutely an accusation with no basis (because I am not).

The strawman was going on a tangent whether or not NYU was worth the cost. That is not the discussion in question and no one claimed it was, that is what makes it a strawman.

This thread is about top schools, and the point is that anyone who does the following (your quote follows):

Sorry but people do choose the college for the "paint on the hallways"

And chooses a lesser education because of "paint on the hallways" is a fool. That's a position I stand behind.

But you do you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High Point has an amazing campus and dorms.

OK and they did all that with a puny endowment of $128mand with a $67k TCOA, which raises the question of why can't the "elite" universities with vastly larger endowments and with a TCOA a third larger than HP have as nice a campus and dorms?

People here won't answer, because it is largely resembled by the hostility in this discussion. Parents have very low standards for elite colleges, because they will throw money at whatever the top-x school is. Colleges that have scrutiny and need to provide a good service tend to have a great campus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High Point has an amazing campus and dorms.

OK and they did all that with a puny endowment of $128mand with a $67k TCOA, which raises the question of why can't the "elite" universities with vastly larger endowments and with a TCOA a third larger than HP have as nice a campus and dorms?

This is like saying you'd rather go to DisneyWorld Epcot instead of paying to go to Japan. The veneer is one thing. The actual experience is another. If you really can't tell the difference, High Point really is for you.

I guess this makes sense if you believe High Point is faking an education, maybe we should talk to their accreditation organization about this...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising senior and have been doing the rounds of many top 25 schools (universities and colleges). We started with safety schools last year and then junior year grades came back so this summer we've been touring some top schools. My kid is trying to figure out an ED.
We have a rising junior as well so we have a couple of kids with us.

The more of these schools we tour, the less impressed I am. They're sort of all a bit falling apart, poorly maintained, with pretty odd students (tour guides, summer students and especially touring students alike--don't jump all over for for saying this--being brutally honest), little sense of community, same-old, same-old stuff about study-abroad, etc. Many have very large class sizes, etc.

I feel like we're (kid and parent alike) are supposed to love these schools and want to pay $90K for them and my kids can't find one they really like. I very, very, very much feel like we're being sold a product that we're supposed to want to buy because of prestige and name but when we see the product up close it doesn't look great and I feel like a sheep lining up to say "yes sir. let me put my kid through mental/emotional twister for a 5% chance of being admitted to your school and then I will gladly pay you $90K for the honor. Yes sir." It just feels... gross. Maybe not gross but yucky. My kids are like, "well I didn't really like this or that here but I could probably make it work." They too feel the pressure to LIKE these places. The Almighty XYZ or ABC school! It's supposed to be their dream!

Please don't jump on me. I know it's summer and we're not seeing the universities at their best but ugh. They're all kind of disappointing. I can't be the only one who feels this way? (I'm not going to name university/college names because then this post will turn into a giant thread about whatever school(s) I name.

Dumpy? Unimpressive, meaning structurally, academically, what? As you looking at colleges or real estate to purchase?

She is buying a service for $360k and expects the quality of the service to reflect the price paid.

When did people start thinking of education in this way?

Why wouldn't you at that price point? Why is college a thing people have come to expect to pay high dollar amounts without getting service/products for what you pay for? And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying.

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

Again: yes it is.

As pointed out earlier, there is always High Point.

I'm sorry but this is foolish. No the education isn't the only thing, and most colleges will emphasize that it isn't just an educational space. Colleges have become mini towns with high quality dorms, dining halls, funding for travel and emergencies, health clinics, mental health offices, etc. American education would be quite cheap if it were just about education, but, no, it's about resort towns with high quality amenities. Do you really think NYU has improved their education so much to justify a near $100k price? Even Harvard-why did it used to be 40k and is nearly 90k, what $50k difference in their education occurred, or did they just build a few more buildings and improve student life?

You are strawman-ing. The very different point responded to was regarding whether the statement "And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying." is correct. It is not - or at least it shouldn't be. If you turn down a better education and a better start in life because you don't like the dorms then you are foolish. Very foolish.

I don't see why. If DC decides to turn down Duke, who keeps their campus pristine and has a high student Quality of Life, over Harvard, I won't be kicking any buckets. I guess it matters if you're status obsessed.

Stop with the personal accusations, it does not become the discussion. It has nothing to do with status. Plenty of kids choose Duke and other peer schools over Harvard for many good reasons. The paint on the hallways of the dorm should not be one of them.

It's not accusations, and sorry but you were the first to pull out the strawman nonsense when the comment clearly stated you aren't paying for anything but the education which just isn't true. If you don't think updated dorms, a cultivated campus, nice academic buildings matter, that's fine, but some people do and it does impact their college decisions. Sorry but people do choose the college for the "paint on the hallways"

Sorry but people do choose the college for the "paint on the hallways"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High Point has an amazing campus and dorms.

OK and they did all that with a puny endowment of $128mand with a $67k TCOA, which raises the question of why can't the "elite" universities with vastly larger endowments and with a TCOA a third larger than HP have as nice a campus and dorms?

This is like saying you'd rather go to DisneyWorld Epcot instead of paying to go to Japan. The veneer is one thing. The actual experience is another. If you really can't tell the difference, High Point really is for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High Point has an amazing campus and dorms.

OK and they did all that with a puny endowment of $128mand with a $67k TCOA, which raises the question of why can't the "elite" universities with vastly larger endowments and with a TCOA a third larger than HP have as nice a campus and dorms?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High Point has an amazing campus and dorms.

OK and they did all that with a puny endowment of $128mand with a $67k TCOA, which raises the question of why can't the "elite" universities with vastly larger endowments and with a TCOA a third larger than HP have as nice a campus and dorms?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising senior and have been doing the rounds of many top 25 schools (universities and colleges). We started with safety schools last year and then junior year grades came back so this summer we've been touring some top schools. My kid is trying to figure out an ED.
We have a rising junior as well so we have a couple of kids with us.

The more of these schools we tour, the less impressed I am. They're sort of all a bit falling apart, poorly maintained, with pretty odd students (tour guides, summer students and especially touring students alike--don't jump all over for for saying this--being brutally honest), little sense of community, same-old, same-old stuff about study-abroad, etc. Many have very large class sizes, etc.

I feel like we're (kid and parent alike) are supposed to love these schools and want to pay $90K for them and my kids can't find one they really like. I very, very, very much feel like we're being sold a product that we're supposed to want to buy because of prestige and name but when we see the product up close it doesn't look great and I feel like a sheep lining up to say "yes sir. let me put my kid through mental/emotional twister for a 5% chance of being admitted to your school and then I will gladly pay you $90K for the honor. Yes sir." It just feels... gross. Maybe not gross but yucky. My kids are like, "well I didn't really like this or that here but I could probably make it work." They too feel the pressure to LIKE these places. The Almighty XYZ or ABC school! It's supposed to be their dream!

Please don't jump on me. I know it's summer and we're not seeing the universities at their best but ugh. They're all kind of disappointing. I can't be the only one who feels this way? (I'm not going to name university/college names because then this post will turn into a giant thread about whatever school(s) I name.

Dumpy? Unimpressive, meaning structurally, academically, what? As you looking at colleges or real estate to purchase?

She is buying a service for $360k and expects the quality of the service to reflect the price paid.

When did people start thinking of education in this way?

Why wouldn't you at that price point? Why is college a thing people have come to expect to pay high dollar amounts without getting service/products for what you pay for? And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying.

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

Again: yes it is.

As pointed out earlier, there is always High Point.

I'm sorry but this is foolish. No the education isn't the only thing, and most colleges will emphasize that it isn't just an educational space. Colleges have become mini towns with high quality dorms, dining halls, funding for travel and emergencies, health clinics, mental health offices, etc. American education would be quite cheap if it were just about education, but, no, it's about resort towns with high quality amenities. Do you really think NYU has improved their education so much to justify a near $100k price? Even Harvard-why did it used to be 40k and is nearly 90k, what $50k difference in their education occurred, or did they just build a few more buildings and improve student life?

You are strawman-ing. The very different point responded to was regarding whether the statement "And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying." is correct. It is not - or at least it shouldn't be. If you turn down a better education and a better start in life because you don't like the dorms then you are foolish. Very foolish.

I don't see why. If DC decides to turn down Duke, who keeps their campus pristine and has a high student Quality of Life, over Harvard, I won't be kicking any buckets. I guess it matters if you're status obsessed.

Stop with the personal accusations, it does not become the discussion. It has nothing to do with status. Plenty of kids choose Duke and other peer schools over Harvard for many good reasons. The paint on the hallways of the dorm should not be one of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising senior and have been doing the rounds of many top 25 schools (universities and colleges). We started with safety schools last year and then junior year grades came back so this summer we've been touring some top schools. My kid is trying to figure out an ED.
We have a rising junior as well so we have a couple of kids with us.

The more of these schools we tour, the less impressed I am. They're sort of all a bit falling apart, poorly maintained, with pretty odd students (tour guides, summer students and especially touring students alike--don't jump all over for for saying this--being brutally honest), little sense of community, same-old, same-old stuff about study-abroad, etc. Many have very large class sizes, etc.

I feel like we're (kid and parent alike) are supposed to love these schools and want to pay $90K for them and my kids can't find one they really like. I very, very, very much feel like we're being sold a product that we're supposed to want to buy because of prestige and name but when we see the product up close it doesn't look great and I feel like a sheep lining up to say "yes sir. let me put my kid through mental/emotional twister for a 5% chance of being admitted to your school and then I will gladly pay you $90K for the honor. Yes sir." It just feels... gross. Maybe not gross but yucky. My kids are like, "well I didn't really like this or that here but I could probably make it work." They too feel the pressure to LIKE these places. The Almighty XYZ or ABC school! It's supposed to be their dream!

Please don't jump on me. I know it's summer and we're not seeing the universities at their best but ugh. They're all kind of disappointing. I can't be the only one who feels this way? (I'm not going to name university/college names because then this post will turn into a giant thread about whatever school(s) I name.

Dumpy? Unimpressive, meaning structurally, academically, what? As you looking at colleges or real estate to purchase?

She is buying a service for $360k and expects the quality of the service to reflect the price paid.

When did people start thinking of education in this way?

Why wouldn't you at that price point? Why is college a thing people have come to expect to pay high dollar amounts without getting service/products for what you pay for? And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying.

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

Again: yes it is.

As pointed out earlier, there is always High Point.

I'm sorry but this is foolish. No the education isn't the only thing, and most colleges will emphasize that it isn't just an educational space. Colleges have become mini towns with high quality dorms, dining halls, funding for travel and emergencies, health clinics, mental health offices, etc. American education would be quite cheap if it were just about education, but, no, it's about resort towns with high quality amenities. Do you really think NYU has improved their education so much to justify a near $100k price? Even Harvard-why did it used to be 40k and is nearly 90k, what $50k difference in their education occurred, or did they just build a few more buildings and improve student life?

You are strawman-ing. The very different point responded to was regarding whether the statement "And no, the education alone is not the only thing you're buying." is correct. It is not - or at least it shouldn't be. If you turn down a better education and a better start in life because you don't like the dorms then you are foolish. Very foolish.

I don't see why. If DC decides to turn down Duke, who keeps their campus pristine and has a high student Quality of Life, over Harvard, I won't be kicking any buckets. I guess it matters if you're status obsessed.

Anonymous wrote:High Point has an amazing campus and dorms.