Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

As any SAHP of small children can tell you, office work is far easier than caretaking. Women aren’t trying to avoid work. The SAH bashing on here is insane. I am convinced that 99% of women have such abominable levels of internalized misogyny that their heads would explode if they started to unpack it.

It's not that hard. My observation is that the people who claim it's so hard are incredibly self-absorbed at baseline, so the entire world not revolving around them and their TV shows, wine tastings, and nail appointments anymore is exhausting and frustrating. It's also why this same group acts like making a goddam doctor's appointment is so draining. They also do a lot of extra shit like your 2 year olds birthday party doesn't require embossed invitations and a photoshoot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

As any SAHP of small children can tell you, office work is far easier than caretaking. Women aren’t trying to avoid work. The SAH bashing on here is insane. I am convinced that 99% of women have such abominable levels of internalized misogyny that their heads would explode if they started to unpack it.

It's not that shared. It really isn't it. IT can be meaningful and satisfying and at times frustrating but it isn't that hard.

Anonymous wrote:8 hours of office work is much easier than taking care of four young children for eight hours. However, the office worker also faces tons of the work faced by the SAH unless she has full time help. In other words, unless you have the money to have full time help it’s not a picnic for either.

Only before they are in school or daycare. Once they have that, SAH is much easier.

8 hours of office work is much easier than taking care of four young children for eight hours. However, the office worker also faces tons of the work faced by the SAH unless she has full time help. In other words, unless you have the money to have full time help it’s not a picnic for either.

Part time daycare after kid turns 3, is awesome and needed for socializing and learning but 7-7 daycare every weekday isn't a good thing no matter how we justify it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

As any SAHP of small children can tell you, office work is far easier than caretaking. Women aren’t trying to avoid work. The SAH bashing on here is insane. I am convinced that 99% of women have such abominable levels of internalized misogyny that their heads would explode if they started to unpack it.

LOL True

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

+1 It's almost funny.
In my experience SAHMs seem much less risk averse than daycare, e.g. hovering over their kid in the park or playground so they don't get hurt, watching their every move. Also SAHMs are just as likely to fill their kids schedules with enrichment classes which are for socializing with other moms, more than anything the kid will acquire as a toddler. But I guess you can justify just about anything.

Your "experience" of SAHMs doesn't constitute a universal truth. And for every SAHM you've seen "hovering so they don't get hurt" etc., I've seen one who kicks back on a bench across the playground and lets the kids extricate themselves from whatever's happening. So please don't make generalizations about what all SAHMs do, based on your limited observations. As for classes -- you have no idea how little the parents actually socialize in many toddler classes. Sure, some do these classes just to get out for themselves, but not all are there to socialize. Regarding justifying just about anything--Sounds like you want to justify your own bias against women who are making choices for which you judge them.

Again, you are trying to rationalize everything from your own standpoint and bias against daycare (don't generalize SAHMs? how about not generalizing all daycares?).

Case in point regarding the bolded- what are the SAHMs doing in mommy and me classes if not for socializing with each other? You just said that these classes are useless for the kids themselves ("a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations"). Do they sign up for these classes just to burn through cash or what??

PP will justify anything that benefits her SAH position and denigrate anything positive about WOH. Even if they are the exact same "benefit" we're talking about!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

As any SAHP of small children can tell you, office work is far easier than caretaking. Women aren’t trying to avoid work. The SAH bashing on here is insane. I am convinced that 99% of women have such abominable levels of internalized misogyny that their heads would explode if they started to unpack it.

Lol

Ooh the cancer-curer has entered the chat.
(But probably just some self important lawyer that nobody likes, not even her children.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

As any SAHP of small children can tell you, office work is far easier than caretaking. Women aren’t trying to avoid work. The SAH bashing on here is insane. I am convinced that 99% of women have such abominable levels of internalized misogyny that their heads would explode if they started to unpack it.

Lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

As any SAHP of small children can tell you, office work is far easier than caretaking. Women aren’t trying to avoid work. The SAH bashing on here is insane. I am convinced that 99% of women have such abominable levels of internalized misogyny that their heads would explode if they started to unpack it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

+1 It's almost funny.
In my experience SAHMs seem much less risk averse than daycare, e.g. hovering over their kid in the park or playground so they don't get hurt, watching their every move. Also SAHMs are just as likely to fill their kids schedules with enrichment classes which are for socializing with other moms, more than anything the kid will acquire as a toddler. But I guess you can justify just about anything.

Your "experience" of SAHMs doesn't constitute a universal truth. And for every SAHM you've seen "hovering so they don't get hurt" etc., I've seen one who kicks back on a bench across the playground and lets the kids extricate themselves from whatever's happening. So please don't make generalizations about what all SAHMs do, based on your limited observations. As for classes -- you have no idea how little the parents actually socialize in many toddler classes. Sure, some do these classes just to get out for themselves, but not all are there to socialize. Regarding justifying just about anything--Sounds like you want to justify your own bias against women who are making choices for which you judge them.

Again, you are trying to rationalize everything from your own standpoint and bias against daycare (don't generalize SAHMs? how about not generalizing all daycares?).

Case in point regarding the bolded- what are the SAHMs doing in mommy and me classes if not for socializing with each other? You just said that these classes are useless for the kids themselves ("a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations"). Do they sign up for these classes just to burn through cash or what??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

+1 It's almost funny.
In my experience SAHMs seem much less risk averse than daycare, e.g. hovering over their kid in the park or playground so they don't get hurt, watching their every move. Also SAHMs are just as likely to fill their kids schedules with enrichment classes which are for socializing with other moms, more than anything the kid will acquire as a toddler. But I guess you can justify just about anything.

Your "experience" of SAHMs doesn't constitute a universal truth. And for every SAHM you've seen "hovering so they don't get hurt" etc., I've seen one who kicks back on a bench across the playground and lets the kids extricate themselves from whatever's happening. So please don't make generalizations about what all SAHMs do, based on your limited observations. As for classes -- you have no idea how little the parents actually socialize in many toddler classes. Sure, some do these classes just to get out for themselves, but not all are there to socialize. Regarding justifying just about anything--Sounds like you want to justify your own bias against women who are making choices for which you judge them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There may be more options than you think. It’s been my experience that employers will lie and say the only option is for you to do exactly what they want you to do, but when you sit down to give your notice, other options magically appear.

This is the time to ask for exactly what you want. If they can’t work with you, then you quit.

+1.

OP, I think women should have a backup/return to work plan. I don't know that I think a postnup is the way to go if you're going to do this for 3-5 years, but if you and your spouse decide you should be a SAHM long-term, then it's a good idea. Otherwise, maybe put resources towards you planning to on-ramp back to work in a few/several years.

I'm 52 and have seen several marriages that I thought were pretty solid fall apart in the late 40's. Cheating, growing apart, small cracks that become chasms over the years. And also several deaths. I don't mean to be a downer, but these things do happen.

I am 51 and seeing the same problems amongst women my age. Seemingly strong marriages for people aged in their 20s and 30s start to fall apart in their 40s and 50s. I’ve seen too many women with very comfortable SAH lifestyles divorce and have to return to entry level jobs or otherwise stay married and put up with poor treatment such as affairs, financial control and other sorts of problems. The women that have careers at this age have far more control over their lives

It is hard to think about your marriage at 50 versus the joy of having young kids in your 30s but it can be a very different place

Sadly, it sounds like you and the other PP are both saying that staying in the workforce -- even if you don't want to, don't financially have to, the DH is supportive and active with the kids, and you truly want to be at home with kids -- is protection against the idea that "things are great now but in my 40s my marriage might fall apart." I get it, I really do, it's based on seeing divorces around you. But it seems liek like such negative projection of others' lives onto one's own marriage: Always having the idea that "it could all fall apart" ticking in the back of one's mind, even when there is no reason to think that other than "I know peers getting divorces." I'm not saying you're wrong, let me be clear about that. I'm just noting that to some extent, it's letting others' marriage failures get inside your head.

Death of a spouse would occur to me before divorce ever would. My dad died when my mom was in her 40s and we kids were 12 and 16, and yes, it was difficult. So I understand the idea of a spouse dying and leaving the other spouse as a single parent suddenly. I certainly thought of it when we discusssed my staying home with DC. But we decided to give priority to SAH for at least several years, and were frankly privileged enough to be able to set up life insurance and investments so I could cope decently if anything happened to DH (and now we're past those years, and yeah, I never went back to FT career work). But divorces of others didn't even enter our thinking. I think this might be partly generational; I'm older than all of you (60) and have only seen one couple in our close circle divorce in all these years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know

+1 It's almost funny.
In my experience SAHMs seem much less risk averse than daycare, e.g. hovering over their kid in the park or playground so they don't get hurt, watching their every move. Also SAHMs are just as likely to fill their kids schedules with enrichment classes which are for socializing with other moms, more than anything the kid will acquire as a toddler. But I guess you can justify just about anything.

Anonymous wrote:It’s not especially relevant if kids “like” daycare. Obviously it’s much better if they do but it can still be an undesirable setup in terms of cortisol control, emotional regulation, exposure to aggression, etc. It can dictate how effective your own parenting is. Try doing oh crap or RIE when your child is in a center and you’ll be undercut all day long.

Daycares also allow so little risky play (understandably!) and food and naps are all based on convenience. An individual caregiver—dad, nanny, grandma—can allow a child much more independence and autonomy. That matters for everything from anxiety prevention to gut health.

Parents also mistakenly believe that all the enrichment found in daycares matters. It doesn’t—a toddler doesn’t need to be shuffled from art to cooking to French in siloed stations.

You act like daycare is a behemoth

Good lord the extent that some women will go to to justify not working is insane. Work isn’t that bad you know