Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most people want this for their kid, at least, most people posting to this forum, and probably most UMC people. But it’s not cool to say so. The only acceptable narrative here is along the lines of: “We didn’t care at all what college Larlo went to. We never pushed him to excel, didn’t set up test prep, didn’t hire those over priced college counselors. Larlo got in because he was so self motivated. All he wanted to do in his spare time since age 8 was math, computer coding, and playing the tuba. He ended up winning multiple national awards, but not because we pushed him, because he truly loved those things and insisted on spending every moment of free time doing them. We didn’t venture realize he applied to Harvard. He took care of everything on his own.”

That or "Larla is *flourishing* at a liberal arts college you've never heard of that's on the verge of closing."

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Anonymous wrote:I want my kid (rising sophomore) to go to a T20. I can't reasonably aim directly for T10 or HYPSM for them given the lottery effect, but I think T20 is a reasonable goal based on kid's abilities. I also talk up LACs, including a few lower ranked ones that fit kid's personality.

We live modestly and put all our extra resources into private school tuition, ECs, enrichment, test prep, summer programs, etc. I wouldn't do these if DC didn't generally enjoy them.

If DC gets in somewhere lower ranked I won't cry about it or blame other people. In that case, DC will be over prepared and on track to complete a difficult major with a high GPA. To a certain extent it's about the journey not the destination. But I do want that T20 spot for DC.

If you already are doing test prep for a rising sophomore then you are overreaching. Same if you used outside tutors or “enrichment “ to get the kid in the top math group(usually top 25-30% of a private school is the top math track). The kids who academically have the chops for being unhooked at T20 are naturally in the math group of the top 20-30% of their private school, are invited by 8th grade teachers into the highest level courses for 9th, no parent pushing, and typically have minimal 98th%ile on their own on Psat 8/9 or the private schools (unprepped) CTP or similar tests. At most too private day schools that send 15-20% of the unhooked class to T20s, those kids have no trouble scoring high on tests and getting into the top math track. Your private school should have given you results along the way, from elementary to middle. If the kid is not naturally there, it is a mistake to pushT20 if they are unhooked. It is highly unlikely they will get in.

I agree with this. If your child is recommended for the second group in math based on her ability and the parents have her go to “math school” and private tutor 4x a week to push her up to the top math group, she’ll always struggle in that group and need someone to help her. She’ll never be on the level as those kids who do the work without assistance.

Many parents are good at math, and can tutor their kids on a daily basis. These kids typically do extremely well in high school and remain high performing in college.

Many parents may have been good at Math back in HS and college but work jobs that don’t require Math skills above algebra I (which is 95% of all jobs)…BigLaw partners don’t even use Algebra I.

What tutoring are these parents providing exactly to their kids in Math?

I'm a foreign language whiz even though I don't use it in my job. I give DC a lot of extra help in their foreign language classes, and they perform accordingly. While we don't use a math tutor, I don't see why it's this big taboo and meaningfully different than what I do with FL, or other mathy parents do with math. The best math student in my kid's class, the mother is a math teacher. You think that kid doesn't get extra help?

Completely different. Many UMC parents did great in HS Math, probably with really high SAT scores...and then pursued majors that only required Calculus as the highest Math and that is where they stopped. Only 7% of people have supposedly taken a Math class past first level Calculus.

I would assume you are interested in foreign languages...probably speak a couple...maybe took college classes.

Again, if you think all the BigLaw partners and all the other UMC parents in the DMV are just naturally "mathy" parents that can help their kids with advanced Math...well, that's not the case.

However, yes they have the $$$s and are fine bringing in the tutors that can do this.

No one is saying biglaw people are mathy. Idk where you get this. By mathy people I mean engineers etc.

Because a PP said many parents can help their HS kids with advanced Math...which is a major exaggeration for the most part. That said, maybe PP lives in SV where there are far more parents who have taken advanced Math and perhaps use Math in their jobs. Considering only 7% of the population has taken Math beyond Calculus...let's just say some parents can help their kid with Advanced HS Math.

However, this is DCUM and the DMV is overrun with lawyers...hence why the BigLaw reference.

There are plenty of engineers, software developers, math teachers and even a few quantitative science professors here too. Get out of your bubble

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Anonymous wrote:I want my kid (rising sophomore) to go to a T20. I can't reasonably aim directly for T10 or HYPSM for them given the lottery effect, but I think T20 is a reasonable goal based on kid's abilities. I also talk up LACs, including a few lower ranked ones that fit kid's personality.

We live modestly and put all our extra resources into private school tuition, ECs, enrichment, test prep, summer programs, etc. I wouldn't do these if DC didn't generally enjoy them.

If DC gets in somewhere lower ranked I won't cry about it or blame other people. In that case, DC will be over prepared and on track to complete a difficult major with a high GPA. To a certain extent it's about the journey not the destination. But I do want that T20 spot for DC.

If you already are doing test prep for a rising sophomore then you are overreaching. Same if you used outside tutors or “enrichment “ to get the kid in the top math group(usually top 25-30% of a private school is the top math track). The kids who academically have the chops for being unhooked at T20 are naturally in the math group of the top 20-30% of their private school, are invited by 8th grade teachers into the highest level courses for 9th, no parent pushing, and typically have minimal 98th%ile on their own on Psat 8/9 or the private schools (unprepped) CTP or similar tests. At most too private day schools that send 15-20% of the unhooked class to T20s, those kids have no trouble scoring high on tests and getting into the top math track. Your private school should have given you results along the way, from elementary to middle. If the kid is not naturally there, it is a mistake to pushT20 if they are unhooked. It is highly unlikely they will get in.

I agree with this. If your child is recommended for the second group in math based on her ability and the parents have her go to “math school” and private tutor 4x a week to push her up to the top math group, she’ll always struggle in that group and need someone to help her. She’ll never be on the level as those kids who do the work without assistance.

Many parents are good at math, and can tutor their kids on a daily basis. These kids typically do extremely well in high school and remain high performing in college.

Many parents may have been good at Math back in HS and college but work jobs that don’t require Math skills above algebra I (which is 95% of all jobs)…BigLaw partners don’t even use Algebra I.

What tutoring are these parents providing exactly to their kids in Math?

I'm a foreign language whiz even though I don't use it in my job. I give DC a lot of extra help in their foreign language classes, and they perform accordingly. While we don't use a math tutor, I don't see why it's this big taboo and meaningfully different than what I do with FL, or other mathy parents do with math. The best math student in my kid's class, the mother is a math teacher. You think that kid doesn't get extra help?

Completely different. Many UMC parents did great in HS Math, probably with really high SAT scores...and then pursued majors that only required Calculus as the highest Math and that is where they stopped. Only 7% of people have supposedly taken a Math class past first level Calculus.

I would assume you are interested in foreign languages...probably speak a couple...maybe took college classes.

Again, if you think all the BigLaw partners and all the other UMC parents in the DMV are just naturally "mathy" parents that can help their kids with advanced Math...well, that's not the case.

However, yes they have the $$$s and are fine bringing in the tutors that can do this.

No one is saying biglaw people are mathy. Idk where you get this. By mathy people I mean engineers etc.

Because a PP said many parents can help their HS kids with advanced Math...which is a major exaggeration for the most part. That said, maybe PP lives in SV where there are far more parents who have taken advanced Math and perhaps use Math in their jobs. Considering only 7% of the population has taken Math beyond Calculus...let's just say some parents can help their kid with Advanced HS Math.

However, this is DCUM and the DMV is overrun with lawyers...hence why the BigLaw reference.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want my kid (rising sophomore) to go to a T20. I can't reasonably aim directly for T10 or HYPSM for them given the lottery effect, but I think T20 is a reasonable goal based on kid's abilities. I also talk up LACs, including a few lower ranked ones that fit kid's personality.

We live modestly and put all our extra resources into private school tuition, ECs, enrichment, test prep, summer programs, etc. I wouldn't do these if DC didn't generally enjoy them.

If DC gets in somewhere lower ranked I won't cry about it or blame other people. In that case, DC will be over prepared and on track to complete a difficult major with a high GPA. To a certain extent it's about the journey not the destination. But I do want that T20 spot for DC.

If you already are doing test prep for a rising sophomore then you are overreaching. Same if you used outside tutors or “enrichment “ to get the kid in the top math group(usually top 25-30% of a private school is the top math track). The kids who academically have the chops for being unhooked at T20 are naturally in the math group of the top 20-30% of their private school, are invited by 8th grade teachers into the highest level courses for 9th, no parent pushing, and typically have minimal 98th%ile on their own on Psat 8/9 or the private schools (unprepped) CTP or similar tests. At most too private day schools that send 15-20% of the unhooked class to T20s, those kids have no trouble scoring high on tests and getting into the top math track. Your private school should have given you results along the way, from elementary to middle. If the kid is not naturally there, it is a mistake to pushT20 if they are unhooked. It is highly unlikely they will get in.

I agree with this. If your child is recommended for the second group in math based on her ability and the parents have her go to “math school” and private tutor 4x a week to push her up to the top math group, she’ll always struggle in that group and need someone to help her. She’ll never be on the level as those kids who do the work without assistance.

Many parents are good at math, and can tutor their kids on a daily basis. These kids typically do extremely well in high school and remain high performing in college.

Many parents may have been good at Math back in HS and college but work jobs that don’t require Math skills above algebra I (which is 95% of all jobs)…BigLaw partners don’t even use Algebra I.

What tutoring are these parents providing exactly to their kids in Math?

I'm a foreign language whiz even though I don't use it in my job. I give DC a lot of extra help in their foreign language classes, and they perform accordingly. While we don't use a math tutor, I don't see why it's this big taboo and meaningfully different than what I do with FL, or other mathy parents do with math. The best math student in my kid's class, the mother is a math teacher. You think that kid doesn't get extra help?

Completely different. Many UMC parents did great in HS Math, probably with really high SAT scores...and then pursued majors that only required Calculus as the highest Math and that is where they stopped. Only 7% of people have supposedly taken a Math class past first level Calculus.

I would assume you are interested in foreign languages...probably speak a couple...maybe took college classes.

Again, if you think all the BigLaw partners and all the other UMC parents in the DMV are just naturally "mathy" parents that can help their kids with advanced Math...well, that's not the case.

However, yes they have the $$$s and are fine bringing in the tutors that can do this.

No one is saying biglaw people are mathy. Idk where you get this. By mathy people I mean engineers etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want my kid (rising sophomore) to go to a T20. I can't reasonably aim directly for T10 or HYPSM for them given the lottery effect, but I think T20 is a reasonable goal based on kid's abilities. I also talk up LACs, including a few lower ranked ones that fit kid's personality.

We live modestly and put all our extra resources into private school tuition, ECs, enrichment, test prep, summer programs, etc. I wouldn't do these if DC didn't generally enjoy them.

If DC gets in somewhere lower ranked I won't cry about it or blame other people. In that case, DC will be over prepared and on track to complete a difficult major with a high GPA. To a certain extent it's about the journey not the destination. But I do want that T20 spot for DC.

If you already are doing test prep for a rising sophomore then you are overreaching. Same if you used outside tutors or “enrichment “ to get the kid in the top math group(usually top 25-30% of a private school is the top math track). The kids who academically have the chops for being unhooked at T20 are naturally in the math group of the top 20-30% of their private school, are invited by 8th grade teachers into the highest level courses for 9th, no parent pushing, and typically have minimal 98th%ile on their own on Psat 8/9 or the private schools (unprepped) CTP or similar tests. At most too private day schools that send 15-20% of the unhooked class to T20s, those kids have no trouble scoring high on tests and getting into the top math track. Your private school should have given you results along the way, from elementary to middle. If the kid is not naturally there, it is a mistake to pushT20 if they are unhooked. It is highly unlikely they will get in.

I agree with this. If your child is recommended for the second group in math based on her ability and the parents have her go to “math school” and private tutor 4x a week to push her up to the top math group, she’ll always struggle in that group and need someone to help her. She’ll never be on the level as those kids who do the work without assistance.

Many parents are good at math, and can tutor their kids on a daily basis. These kids typically do extremely well in high school and remain high performing in college.

Many parents may have been good at Math back in HS and college but work jobs that don’t require Math skills above algebra I (which is 95% of all jobs)…BigLaw partners don’t even use Algebra I.

What tutoring are these parents providing exactly to their kids in Math?

I'm a foreign language whiz even though I don't use it in my job. I give DC a lot of extra help in their foreign language classes, and they perform accordingly. While we don't use a math tutor, I don't see why it's this big taboo and meaningfully different than what I do with FL, or other mathy parents do with math. The best math student in my kid's class, the mother is a math teacher. You think that kid doesn't get extra help?

Completely different. Many UMC parents did great in HS Math, probably with really high SAT scores...and then pursued majors that only required Calculus as the highest Math and that is where they stopped. Only 7% of people have supposedly taken a Math class past first level Calculus.

I would assume you are interested in foreign languages...probably speak a couple...maybe took college classes.

Again, if you think all the BigLaw partners and all the other UMC parents in the DMV are just naturally "mathy" parents that can help their kids with advanced Math...well, that's not the case.

However, yes they have the $$$s and are fine bringing in the tutors that can do this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want my kid (rising sophomore) to go to a T20. I can't reasonably aim directly for T10 or HYPSM for them given the lottery effect, but I think T20 is a reasonable goal based on kid's abilities. I also talk up LACs, including a few lower ranked ones that fit kid's personality.

We live modestly and put all our extra resources into private school tuition, ECs, enrichment, test prep, summer programs, etc. I wouldn't do these if DC didn't generally enjoy them.

If DC gets in somewhere lower ranked I won't cry about it or blame other people. In that case, DC will be over prepared and on track to complete a difficult major with a high GPA. To a certain extent it's about the journey not the destination. But I do want that T20 spot for DC.

If you already are doing test prep for a rising sophomore then you are overreaching. Same if you used outside tutors or “enrichment “ to get the kid in the top math group(usually top 25-30% of a private school is the top math track). The kids who academically have the chops for being unhooked at T20 are naturally in the math group of the top 20-30% of their private school, are invited by 8th grade teachers into the highest level courses for 9th, no parent pushing, and typically have minimal 98th%ile on their own on Psat 8/9 or the private schools (unprepped) CTP or similar tests. At most too private day schools that send 15-20% of the unhooked class to T20s, those kids have no trouble scoring high on tests and getting into the top math track. Your private school should have given you results along the way, from elementary to middle. If the kid is not naturally there, it is a mistake to pushT20 if they are unhooked. It is highly unlikely they will get in.

I agree with this. If your child is recommended for the second group in math based on her ability and the parents have her go to “math school” and private tutor 4x a week to push her up to the top math group, she’ll always struggle in that group and need someone to help her. She’ll never be on the level as those kids who do the work without assistance.

Many parents are good at math, and can tutor their kids on a daily basis. These kids typically do extremely well in high school and remain high performing in college.

Many parents may have been good at Math back in HS and college but work jobs that don’t require Math skills above algebra I (which is 95% of all jobs)…BigLaw partners don’t even use Algebra I.

What tutoring are these parents providing exactly to their kids in Math?

I'm a foreign language whiz even though I don't use it in my job. I give DC a lot of extra help in their foreign language classes, and they perform accordingly. While we don't use a math tutor, I don't see why it's this big taboo and meaningfully different than what I do with FL, or other mathy parents do with math. The best math student in my kid's class, the mother is a math teacher. You think that kid doesn't get extra help?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it such a crime to want your child to get into a top school? Obviously “top” can mean different things, but whether it’s HYPSM or Ivies or even T50s, it shouldn’t be a horrible thing for parents to want their children to meet certain academic standards. It’s annoyed when people are attacked for wanting their kids to get a good education.

My hypothesis is that the people criticizing these parents are the parents of children who aren’t high-achieving enough to get into good schools. Otherwise, why does it matter to them so much?

I think your hypothesis says more about your insecurities than anything else OP.
Thoughts?

Anonymous wrote:Why is it such a crime to want your child to get into a top school? Obviously “top” can mean different things, but whether it’s HYPSM or Ivies or even T50s, it shouldn’t be a horrible thing for parents to want their children to meet certain academic standards. It’s annoyed when people are attacked for wanting their kids to get a good education.

My hypothesis is that the people criticizing these parents are the parents of children who aren’t high-achieving enough to get into good schools. Otherwise, why does it matter to them so much?

I think your hypothesis says more about your insecurities than anything else OP.
Thoughts?

Anonymous wrote:I think most people want this for their kid, at least, most people posting to this forum, and probably most UMC people. But it’s not cool to say so. The only acceptable narrative here is along the lines of: “We didn’t care at all what college Larlo went to. We never pushed him to excel, didn’t set up test prep, didn’t hire those over priced college counselors. Larlo got in because he was so self motivated. All he wanted to do in his spare time since age 8 was math, computer coding, and playing the tuba. He ended up winning multiple national awards, but not because we pushed him, because he truly loved those things and insisted on spending every moment of free time doing them. We didn’t venture realize he applied to Harvard. He took care of everything on his own.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want my kid (rising sophomore) to go to a T20. I can't reasonably aim directly for T10 or HYPSM for them given the lottery effect, but I think T20 is a reasonable goal based on kid's abilities. I also talk up LACs, including a few lower ranked ones that fit kid's personality.

We live modestly and put all our extra resources into private school tuition, ECs, enrichment, test prep, summer programs, etc. I wouldn't do these if DC didn't generally enjoy them.

If DC gets in somewhere lower ranked I won't cry about it or blame other people. In that case, DC will be over prepared and on track to complete a difficult major with a high GPA. To a certain extent it's about the journey not the destination. But I do want that T20 spot for DC.

If you already are doing test prep for a rising sophomore then you are overreaching. Same if you used outside tutors or “enrichment “ to get the kid in the top math group(usually top 25-30% of a private school is the top math track). The kids who academically have the chops for being unhooked at T20 are naturally in the math group of the top 20-30% of their private school, are invited by 8th grade teachers into the highest level courses for 9th, no parent pushing, and typically have minimal 98th%ile on their own on Psat 8/9 or the private schools (unprepped) CTP or similar tests. At most too private day schools that send 15-20% of the unhooked class to T20s, those kids have no trouble scoring high on tests and getting into the top math track. Your private school should have given you results along the way, from elementary to middle. If the kid is not naturally there, it is a mistake to pushT20 if they are unhooked. It is highly unlikely they will get in.

I agree with this. If your child is recommended for the second group in math based on her ability and the parents have her go to “math school” and private tutor 4x a week to push her up to the top math group, she’ll always struggle in that group and need someone to help her. She’ll never be on the level as those kids who do the work without assistance.

Many parents are good at math, and can tutor their kids on a daily basis. These kids typically do extremely well in high school and remain high performing in college.

Many parents may have been good at Math back in HS and college but work jobs that don’t require Math skills above algebra I (which is 95% of all jobs)…BigLaw partners don’t even use Algebra I.

What tutoring are these parents providing exactly to their kids in Math?

I'm a foreign language whiz even though I don't use it in my job. I give DC a lot of extra help in their foreign language classes, and they perform accordingly. While we don't use a math tutor, I don't see why it's this big taboo and meaningfully different than what I do with FL, or other mathy parents do with math. The best math student in my kid's class, the mother is a math teacher. You think that kid doesn't get extra help?

Why do you give your kids extra help in FL? The same thing the previous poster mentioned could happen: they get in and stay in honors foreign language in HS only because of your continuing intense help, they struggle the whole time, they shouldn’t be there. Just let them be regular level/let them figure it out or go to their teacher for help. That builds the skills they need for college. Parents should not help extensively with homework or really even deal with homework IMO, middle school and up, certainly not high school.
The smartest math kids (and in all subjects) in my kid’s school the last several yrs did not get extra help. Some were not “valedictorian “, some were, that doesn’t correlate. The kids and teachers know who the real talented ones are. Same with the smartest ones at my kid’s ivy: they go to office hours, but they do not need the 1:1 academic advising /exec coaching the colleges offer. So many parents push their kids so hard to be in these top groups, i don’t get it but it always takes the tone of doing it to have a leg up in getting into better colleges. Why would one want their kid in a college they didn’t get into without extensive tutoring(even if they could get in)? There are a small subset of students at the ivy who are in way over their heads. They get put on academic probation or the advisors push them to switch classes to something easier and get lots of extra support….and their mental health is much worse off for it. Some seem genuinely surprised to be around so many kids who get the concepts much faster, can have a lot more free time away from the library, etc.
i have kids at two different ivy/+ and they both have met these subsets of kids and it is sad. Some have the overpushed by parents backgrounds with the extra tutors, some were let in with big hooks, stated by the students. Maybe some is TO, certainly some top schools have reported data that aligns with the anecdotes. Suicides are up on campuses.
Please let your kids track where they should be and let them figure it out in high school. They will end up where they fit best.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want my kid (rising sophomore) to go to a T20. I can't reasonably aim directly for T10 or HYPSM for them given the lottery effect, but I think T20 is a reasonable goal based on kid's abilities. I also talk up LACs, including a few lower ranked ones that fit kid's personality.

We live modestly and put all our extra resources into private school tuition, ECs, enrichment, test prep, summer programs, etc. I wouldn't do these if DC didn't generally enjoy them.

If DC gets in somewhere lower ranked I won't cry about it or blame other people. In that case, DC will be over prepared and on track to complete a difficult major with a high GPA. To a certain extent it's about the journey not the destination. But I do want that T20 spot for DC.

If you already are doing test prep for a rising sophomore then you are overreaching. Same if you used outside tutors or “enrichment “ to get the kid in the top math group(usually top 25-30% of a private school is the top math track). The kids who academically have the chops for being unhooked at T20 are naturally in the math group of the top 20-30% of their private school, are invited by 8th grade teachers into the highest level courses for 9th, no parent pushing, and typically have minimal 98th%ile on their own on Psat 8/9 or the private schools (unprepped) CTP or similar tests. At most too private day schools that send 15-20% of the unhooked class to T20s, those kids have no trouble scoring high on tests and getting into the top math track. Your private school should have given you results along the way, from elementary to middle. If the kid is not naturally there, it is a mistake to pushT20 if they are unhooked. It is highly unlikely they will get in.

I agree with this. If your child is recommended for the second group in math based on her ability and the parents have her go to “math school” and private tutor 4x a week to push her up to the top math group, she’ll always struggle in that group and need someone to help her. She’ll never be on the level as those kids who do the work without assistance.

Many parents are good at math, and can tutor their kids on a daily basis. These kids typically do extremely well in high school and remain high performing in college.

Many parents may have been good at Math back in HS and college but work jobs that don’t require Math skills above algebra I (which is 95% of all jobs)…BigLaw partners don’t even use Algebra I.

What tutoring are these parents providing exactly to their kids in Math?

I'm a foreign language whiz even though I don't use it in my job. I give DC a lot of extra help in their foreign language classes, and they perform accordingly. While we don't use a math tutor, I don't see why it's this big taboo and meaningfully different than what I do with FL, or other mathy parents do with math. The best math student in my kid's class, the mother is a math teacher. You think that kid doesn't get extra help?