Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it so hard to admit that daycare/aftercare is a lesser experience for kids than sahp, barring strange outliers? It doesn’t mean it’s a *bad* experience or that you’re a bad parent. It’s just reality.

I couldn’t breastfeed my children. I acknowledge the reality that this was a negative for them. They lost out on bonding and lifelong health benefits. But it was out of my hands and there was nothing more I could do.

I couldn’t have a vaginal delivery. Again, a lesser experience for them in terms of future health, etc.

It’s magical thinking to not admit some scenarios are simply better for kids. I personally think if we want society to start improving childcare we need to start with a shared understanding of what benefits infants and toddlers, not corporations or bank accounts.

because I genuinely don't think that's universally the case.
We have HHI of aprox $700-$750. My kids go to aftercare when we could easily afford childcare. That's because it's way more fun for them to be in aftercare (where they do sports and activities and play pick up basketball with their friends) than it is to come home and sit in our apartment.
I also genuinely do not think that formula or vaginal delivery are 'better'. I breastfed and had a vaginal delivery but I wouldn't have cared at ALL if I didn't do either.
I think what objectively does make a difference for kids is money. Being able to to to private school if your kid needs it. Not having money saved for college, not having any parental help to buy their first home. Money is a huge differentiator when it comes to 'future health'. So I work because i think that these small things that parents stress about -LIKE breastfeeding and aftercare and all that crp -absolutely pale in terms of impact on children in comparison to having less net worth and less ability to help your kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually feel like I have a lot more personal time and more of an independent personal life after going back to work. I loved being a sahm but it was a huge amount of work and I did not feel like I had control of my day the way I do now.

Of course this depends on the circumstance (I had 3 little kids as a sahm, didn’t have household help) but I don’t think it’s always true that being a sahm allows for more freedom and personal time or that working is inherently drudgery (my job can be frustrating at times but I find it to be mentally stimulating and interesting)

All just to say there are pros and cons to both. I’ve done both and, for now at least, prefer working.

You must have some laid back job if you felt you had more personal time and independence when returning to work. With all the demands at work,it's not quiet time. The commute is a mad rush to get back before after care ends. And immediately when you are home at six you make dinner and ready kids for bed.

Sure as a SAHM of 3 under 5, that is a lot of labor. But you answer to no one, can coral them to a portion of the house or spend more time at the park to reduce mess, and have no other demands from a boss or customer.

Anonymous wrote:I am fairly happy with my setup during the school year but summers are hard! Aftercare at camp is extra expensive and also basically warehousing kids with no supervision, so it isn’t an affordable or quality option.

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Anonymous wrote:We have a 4.5 year-old and a baby just over 1. Baby in full day daycare and the older one has done DCPS PreK + aftercare for the past two years which he loved. Now in summer camp + aftercare, though he deeply misses all his school friends (who scatter to the wind during the summer).

Two kids is wild. One of us is home by 545 with the kids, dinner, play, bath time, etc. Our oldest kid won't go to bed at 715pm anymore and is stretching out bed time + longer daylight hours. We don't get a free moment until 9pm; it's killing us. Have a long list of babysitters and we rotate through them, it's been nice to get out of the house in the evening once the baby is down for the night.

Strongly considering an au pair. We can afford it ($250K x 2 jobs). Would be super helpful for getting kids ready in the AM, picking up our oldest kid from school/camp, packing the lunch box, etc.

Get a real nanny. At your income you can afford it and sounds like you really need the help

Why get a "real nanny"? I'd need to hire a top-notch nanny for her to cover everything my baby does in his Montessori daycare (with instructors who have college degrees). So probably at least $70K after-tax to get a high quality nanny. Doesn't seem worth it.

Literally only need an extra set of hands for 1 hour in the morning and 3 hours in the evening. Plus have an au pair do sporadic kid stuff - laundry, lunch boxes, straightening up their rooms - throughout the week. I don't think an au pair would even hit 40 hours with us in a week.

Getting a real nanny is 100% worth it. I wouldn't do it in place of a Montessori school. As a working mom, having assistance with laundry, dishes, lunch boxes, meal prep, and transportation is incredibly beneficial. I pay a nanny an above-market rate for a guaranteed 20 hours a week. While costly, it makes a significant difference in managing my job, running our household effectively, finding time to exercise, and enabling my kids to participate in competitive sports that prepare them to play in high school.

So you have a part-time Alice.

That definitely is the way to do it, but how much do you pay for this above market staff? I’m gonna guess it’s probably close to 50,000 right? Because going part time for them also means less ability to take another job, it’s not like they can cover two kids after school, or there’s a baby who only needs care from the morning.

You're in the ballpark on cost. Our nanny is happy with the arrangement; she's single, and her child is out of the house, so the amount we pay is enough. She uses her mornings for her hobbies and her own housework and occasionally takes other jobs.

You must live in the exurbs, because her in suburbs a former mom would not be looking for part time work like this. They would have either a breadwinner or a real job.

How is this woman going to retire?

She plans to move back to her home country. She's not American and doesn't want to work 40 hours a week. We don't live in the exurbs.

As soon as I posted I knew you were paying someone under the table who was not planning to stay in America. That’s why you can get this deal.

She's a U.S. citizen via her previous marriage, and we pay her above the table. I interviewed a few other older women before I found her. I did not go through an agency as I prefer to call references and interview myself. I posted at $35/hour plus reimbursements, which for my family size is above market, and I negotiated up. I considered offering 40 hours at the market rate, which is $30/hour for my family size where we live. That would work, too, but I often work from home and prefer a quiet house for as long as possible.

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Anonymous wrote:We have a 4.5 year-old and a baby just over 1. Baby in full day daycare and the older one has done DCPS PreK + aftercare for the past two years which he loved. Now in summer camp + aftercare, though he deeply misses all his school friends (who scatter to the wind during the summer).

Two kids is wild. One of us is home by 545 with the kids, dinner, play, bath time, etc. Our oldest kid won't go to bed at 715pm anymore and is stretching out bed time + longer daylight hours. We don't get a free moment until 9pm; it's killing us. Have a long list of babysitters and we rotate through them, it's been nice to get out of the house in the evening once the baby is down for the night.

Strongly considering an au pair. We can afford it ($250K x 2 jobs). Would be super helpful for getting kids ready in the AM, picking up our oldest kid from school/camp, packing the lunch box, etc.

Get a real nanny. At your income you can afford it and sounds like you really need the help

Why get a "real nanny"? I'd need to hire a top-notch nanny for her to cover everything my baby does in his Montessori daycare (with instructors who have college degrees). So probably at least $70K after-tax to get a high quality nanny. Doesn't seem worth it.

Literally only need an extra set of hands for 1 hour in the morning and 3 hours in the evening. Plus have an au pair do sporadic kid stuff - laundry, lunch boxes, straightening up their rooms - throughout the week. I don't think an au pair would even hit 40 hours with us in a week.

Getting a real nanny is 100% worth it. I wouldn't do it in place of a Montessori school. As a working mom, having assistance with laundry, dishes, lunch boxes, meal prep, and transportation is incredibly beneficial. I pay a nanny an above-market rate for a guaranteed 20 hours a week. While costly, it makes a significant difference in managing my job, running our household effectively, finding time to exercise, and enabling my kids to participate in competitive sports that prepare them to play in high school.

So you have a part-time Alice.

That definitely is the way to do it, but how much do you pay for this above market staff? I’m gonna guess it’s probably close to 50,000 right? Because going part time for them also means less ability to take another job, it’s not like they can cover two kids after school, or there’s a baby who only needs care from the morning.

You're in the ballpark on cost. Our nanny is happy with the arrangement; she's single, and her child is out of the house, so the amount we pay is enough. She uses her mornings for her hobbies and her own housework and occasionally takes other jobs.

You must live in the exurbs, because her in suburbs a former mom would not be looking for part time work like this. They would have either a breadwinner or a real job.

How is this woman going to retire?

She plans to move back to her home country. She's not American and doesn't want to work 40 hours a week. We don't live in the exurbs.

As soon as I posted I knew you were paying someone under the table who was not planning to stay in America. That’s why you can get this deal.

Anonymous wrote:Why is it so hard to admit that daycare/aftercare is a lesser experience for kids than sahp, barring strange outliers? It doesn’t mean it’s a *bad* experience or that you’re a bad parent. It’s just reality.

I couldn’t breastfeed my children. I acknowledge the reality that this was a negative for them. They lost out on bonding and lifelong health benefits. But it was out of my hands and there was nothing more I could do.

I couldn’t have a vaginal delivery. Again, a lesser experience for them in terms of future health, etc.

It’s magical thinking to not admit some scenarios are simply better for kids. I personally think if we want society to start improving childcare we need to start with a shared understanding of what benefits infants and toddlers, not corporations or bank accounts.

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Anonymous wrote:We have a 4.5 year-old and a baby just over 1. Baby in full day daycare and the older one has done DCPS PreK + aftercare for the past two years which he loved. Now in summer camp + aftercare, though he deeply misses all his school friends (who scatter to the wind during the summer).

Two kids is wild. One of us is home by 545 with the kids, dinner, play, bath time, etc. Our oldest kid won't go to bed at 715pm anymore and is stretching out bed time + longer daylight hours. We don't get a free moment until 9pm; it's killing us. Have a long list of babysitters and we rotate through them, it's been nice to get out of the house in the evening once the baby is down for the night.

Strongly considering an au pair. We can afford it ($250K x 2 jobs). Would be super helpful for getting kids ready in the AM, picking up our oldest kid from school/camp, packing the lunch box, etc.

Get a real nanny. At your income you can afford it and sounds like you really need the help

Why get a "real nanny"? I'd need to hire a top-notch nanny for her to cover everything my baby does in his Montessori daycare (with instructors who have college degrees). So probably at least $70K after-tax to get a high quality nanny. Doesn't seem worth it.

Literally only need an extra set of hands for 1 hour in the morning and 3 hours in the evening. Plus have an au pair do sporadic kid stuff - laundry, lunch boxes, straightening up their rooms - throughout the week. I don't think an au pair would even hit 40 hours with us in a week.

You do you. I'm not a fan of kids taking care of kids and especially babies.

What are you talking about? Our au pair is 26 with a college degree. She's using her au pair year to perfect her English so she can get a job with a multinational company when she goes home. She's absolutely an adult and is fantastic.

At our aftercare a parent came to pick up their kid with their leashed dog. Apparently a kid asked to pet the dog and the adult said okay. Then the dog lunged and bit the child in the face. The bleeding kid ran to the bathroom. The parent with the dog left. The aftercare staff saw *none* of this, even though all the kids were aware and there was a big commotion. When the parent of the bleeding kid showed up for pickup the staff still had no idea. The kid ended up needing several stitches on his face. It was a huge deal at our school.

I don't even consider aftercare to be childcare--no one actually watches or cares for the kids. It's basically a fee you pay so your child can hang at the school until you get off work. We're much happier with our au pair.

Sounds like it worked out for you.
Most au pairs are teenagers

I disagree. Most are in their 20s. The program is for 18-26 yos.

We've never had an au pair under the age of 21 as we don't want to worry about under age drinking laws. Similar for other families we know.

The prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until 26-ish. The one that works out goof judgment, memory retrieval, stress control, and behavioral flexibility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually feel like I have a lot more personal time and more of an independent personal life after going back to work. I loved being a sahm but it was a huge amount of work and I did not feel like I had control of my day the way I do now.

Of course this depends on the circumstance (I had 3 little kids as a sahm, didn’t have household help) but I don’t think it’s always true that being a sahm allows for more freedom and personal time or that working is inherently drudgery (my job can be frustrating at times but I find it to be mentally stimulating and interesting)

All just to say there are pros and cons to both. I’ve done both and, for now at least, prefer working.

You must have some laid back job if you felt you had more personal time and independence when returning to work. With all the demands at work,it's not quiet time. The commute is a mad rush to get back before after care ends. And immediately when you are home at six you make dinner and ready kids for bed.

Sure as a SAHM of 3 under 5, that is a lot of labor. But you answer to no one, can coral them to a portion of the house or spend more time at the park to reduce mess, and have no other demands from a boss or customer.

Pp. I think part of the freedom at work is that I can have lunch alone and listen to a podcast uninterrupted, go for a short walk on a quick break, chat with other adults to break up the day. As a sahm I felt like someone always needed something all day and I couldn’t guarantee any alone time or break time.

Also, one crucial thing that keeps the whole thing running is that we have an amazing nanny. It allows for a lot more flexibility and eliminates stress around scheduling drop offs/pick ups/vacation days. I definitely see how other childcare options could be more stressful

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually feel like I have a lot more personal time and more of an independent personal life after going back to work. I loved being a sahm but it was a huge amount of work and I did not feel like I had control of my day the way I do now.

Of course this depends on the circumstance (I had 3 little kids as a sahm, didn’t have household help) but I don’t think it’s always true that being a sahm allows for more freedom and personal time or that working is inherently drudgery (my job can be frustrating at times but I find it to be mentally stimulating and interesting)

All just to say there are pros and cons to both. I’ve done both and, for now at least, prefer working.

You must have some laid back job if you felt you had more personal time and independence when returning to work. With all the demands at work,it's not quiet time. The commute is a mad rush to get back before after care ends. And immediately when you are home at six you make dinner and ready kids for bed.

Sure as a SAHM of 3 under 5, that is a lot of labor. But you answer to no one, can coral them to a portion of the house or spend more time at the park to reduce mess, and have no other demands from a boss or customer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a 4.5 year-old and a baby just over 1. Baby in full day daycare and the older one has done DCPS PreK + aftercare for the past two years which he loved. Now in summer camp + aftercare, though he deeply misses all his school friends (who scatter to the wind during the summer).

Two kids is wild. One of us is home by 545 with the kids, dinner, play, bath time, etc. Our oldest kid won't go to bed at 715pm anymore and is stretching out bed time + longer daylight hours. We don't get a free moment until 9pm; it's killing us. Have a long list of babysitters and we rotate through them, it's been nice to get out of the house in the evening once the baby is down for the night.

Strongly considering an au pair. We can afford it ($250K x 2 jobs). Would be super helpful for getting kids ready in the AM, picking up our oldest kid from school/camp, packing the lunch box, etc.

Get a real nanny. At your income you can afford it and sounds like you really need the help

Why get a "real nanny"? I'd need to hire a top-notch nanny for her to cover everything my baby does in his Montessori daycare (with instructors who have college degrees). So probably at least $70K after-tax to get a high quality nanny. Doesn't seem worth it.

Literally only need an extra set of hands for 1 hour in the morning and 3 hours in the evening. Plus have an au pair do sporadic kid stuff - laundry, lunch boxes, straightening up their rooms - throughout the week. I don't think an au pair would even hit 40 hours with us in a week.

You do you. I'm not a fan of kids taking care of kids and especially babies.

What are you talking about? Our au pair is 26 with a college degree. She's using her au pair year to perfect her English so she can get a job with a multinational company when she goes home. She's absolutely an adult and is fantastic.

At our aftercare a parent came to pick up their kid with their leashed dog. Apparently a kid asked to pet the dog and the adult said okay. Then the dog lunged and bit the child in the face. The bleeding kid ran to the bathroom. The parent with the dog left. The aftercare staff saw *none* of this, even though all the kids were aware and there was a big commotion. When the parent of the bleeding kid showed up for pickup the staff still had no idea. The kid ended up needing several stitches on his face. It was a huge deal at our school.

I don't even consider aftercare to be childcare--no one actually watches or cares for the kids. It's basically a fee you pay so your child can hang at the school until you get off work. We're much happier with our au pair.

Sounds like it worked out for you.
Most au pairs are teenagers

I disagree. Most are in their 20s. The program is for 18-26 yos.

We've never had an au pair under the age of 21 as we don't want to worry about under age drinking laws. Similar for other families we know.

Anonymous wrote:I actually feel like I have a lot more personal time and more of an independent personal life after going back to work. I loved being a sahm but it was a huge amount of work and I did not feel like I had control of my day the way I do now.

Of course this depends on the circumstance (I had 3 little kids as a sahm, didn’t have household help) but I don’t think it’s always true that being a sahm allows for more freedom and personal time or that working is inherently drudgery (my job can be frustrating at times but I find it to be mentally stimulating and interesting)

All just to say there are pros and cons to both. I’ve done both and, for now at least, prefer working.

Anonymous wrote:Why is it so hard to admit that daycare/aftercare is a lesser experience for kids than sahp, barring strange outliers? It doesn’t mean it’s a *bad* experience or that you’re a bad parent. It’s just reality.

I couldn’t breastfeed my children. I acknowledge the reality that this was a negative for them. They lost out on bonding and lifelong health benefits. But it was out of my hands and there was nothing more I could do.

I couldn’t have a vaginal delivery. Again, a lesser experience for them in terms of future health, etc.

It’s magical thinking to not admit some scenarios are simply better for kids. I personally think if we want society to start improving childcare we need to start with a shared understanding of what benefits infants and toddlers, not corporations or bank accounts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that kids are better off or happier not having to go to aftercare or staying until closing. Avoiding that never entered my decision making, which,’along with sharing the drop off and pick up load, led to both of us being able to have the careers we wanted.

So your kids have been staying in school and camp from 9-6 through age 6-13?

YES DUMMY


IM NOT WHITE AND PRIVILEGED LIKE YOURSELF THAT WOULD HAVE AFFORDED ME A BETTER CAREER