Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So then 1/2 are not connected to the swim team. People don’t join for swim team - they join the pool first and then the swim team. Kids may join because friends . . .

Completely wrong at our pool. Many families join ONLY for the swim team. This is a significant source of revenue for the pool and without it the pool may have to close.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm on a pool board for one of these pools and there are (I'll say this probably unkindly) some cranks who have OP's attitude and I'll say I don't give it any credence. It's a NEIGHBORHOOD pool and we have lots of constituents and we do a really good job of balancing all the competing demands, but here's the rub: About 200 families out of around 400 member families are there BECAUSE OF THE SWIM TEAM. Over half the membership is tied to the swim team, and probably another 20% are older members whose kids went through swim team. So swim team is kind of at the core DNA of the neighborhood pools. The problem we see time and again is the small portion of lap swimmers who want the entirety of the pool to themselves, 8 at a time. And then the few members who expect it to be the quiet pool at a posh resort and don't like the family hustle and bustle. Join a country club if you want to avoid the swim team, but otherwise stop being a crank.

Thanks PP this sounds exactly like our pool. I do think a neighborhood pool is just a different animal than a pool at a fitness club, country club, etc. Agree re "at the core DNA" - it provides a lot of the spirit and community of the pool a neighborhood, in addition to our local elementary.

OP here - I am not going to attempt to respond to all the assumptions and things I already addressed in this thread but this last comment really sums up my biggest issue with the intense core group of our swim team that causes all these issues. Swim team is fun and creates a great environment for the members of the swim team ONLY. It is the opposite of spirit building for the community at large- it’s annoying and generally directly at odds with what they want their own experience to be like. Which is fine, people can have different preferences although a community pool would typically make some effort to balance those preferences! But acting like having a swim team is some kind of public good for the community and choosing not to participate in it (or being unable to participate) makes you somehow less part of the community is ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:I'm on a pool board for one of these pools and there are (I'll say this probably unkindly) some cranks who have OP's attitude and I'll say I don't give it any credence. It's a NEIGHBORHOOD pool and we have lots of constituents and we do a really good job of balancing all the competing demands, but here's the rub: About 200 families out of around 400 member families are there BECAUSE OF THE SWIM TEAM. Over half the membership is tied to the swim team, and probably another 20% are older members whose kids went through swim team. So swim team is kind of at the core DNA of the neighborhood pools. The problem we see time and again is the small portion of lap swimmers who want the entirety of the pool to themselves, 8 at a time. And then the few members who expect it to be the quiet pool at a posh resort and don't like the family hustle and bustle. Join a country club if you want to avoid the swim team, but otherwise stop being a crank.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there was a pool that the team didn’t practice in the evening I’d consider switching.

But yeah summer swim dominates all pools.

How old are you? Sounds like a retirement community is what you need.

I’m a PP who said we ended up joining a country club. It’s wonderful, and the swim team only practices in the afternoon but only uses half of the pool and none of the baby pool. Meets are rare (2 home ones a season). I think the best part is there are no crazy parent swim volunteers who get off on little power trips. Instead the practices and meets are staffed with paid coaches and college students. It’s so much better all around. I should add that my kids did swim team at our previous pool and now this one, and getting the insane swim parents out of the picture makes all the difference. OP look at country clubs. Not all of them are expensive, and they’re worth every penny

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the working parents who were pissy their kids couldn’t do morning swim team. The evening swim practices are a direct result of this.

Why not just do PM practice? Families with young kids could go in the morning, then go home to lunch/nap. Older kids would likely start showing up around noon, as the babies/toddlers are leaving, and stay through swim practice. Kids who are in camp would show up for swim practice, and stay until close.

Because not every family, including those whose parents work, has the same schedule you do.

Our a.m. practice takes the entire pool for 3 hours. Fold in the kids who come to p.m. practice and we'd need to close the pool for 4 or 5 hours. That means that many families wouldn't be able to go at all, to accommodate the small number of SAHM families who want morning.

Plus, we can get lifeguards for morning hours, because they are swim team kids who want to be part of the swim team. But getting teenagers to come at 9 a.m. for lifeguard shifts is going to be hard otherwise.

Finally, there is this weird idea on DCUM that there are two kinds of families, those where both parents work full time exactly 9 - 5 who send their kids to camp, and those with a SAHP. The reality is that the working world is much more diverse than that a.m. practice works for a lot of people. When I think of the families I know who do a.m. practice, we have families whose parents do shift work, or who use grandparents or teenagers as childcare and want that time broken up, or who have parents who are WFH, and kids at an age where a partial day at home works and a full day doesn't, or kids like mine with other significant commitment to a sport or art form or job in the afternoon. Both parents working full time, and using camps all summer is only the norm in a certain UMC bubble.

Sorry to break it to you but swim team is the definition of UMC bubble. Even having a pool membership and everything OP described is peak UMC.

Having parents who work the night shift, or using grandma or a teen sibling babysit to instead of paying for camp each week is UMC bubble?

I think PP meant paying a $1000 “initiation fee”, plus an $800 annual club membership was UMC.

Our pool is a $400 one time membership, and $660 annual, plus $270 for both kids to be on the team. That $930 a year is much less than many people pay for camps.

What do you think is a range for initial cost to join a club? So far I’ve seen anywhere from $675 to $1,800.

I don’t know but obviously I think it includes $400.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I was asking if that's a general range ($675-$1800) for a first year cost to join a club.

Well, you quoted me saying that my club cost $400 to join, and said that the lowest you'd seen was $675, which seems odd to say in response to my comment.

I have no idea what the range is. I've only joined one club and it was a long time ago. But whatever the range is, I figure it includes $400, so it can't be $675 - $1800.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the working parents who were pissy their kids couldn’t do morning swim team. The evening swim practices are a direct result of this.

Why not just do PM practice? Families with young kids could go in the morning, then go home to lunch/nap. Older kids would likely start showing up around noon, as the babies/toddlers are leaving, and stay through swim practice. Kids who are in camp would show up for swim practice, and stay until close.

Because not every family, including those whose parents work, has the same schedule you do.

Our a.m. practice takes the entire pool for 3 hours. Fold in the kids who come to p.m. practice and we'd need to close the pool for 4 or 5 hours. That means that many families wouldn't be able to go at all, to accommodate the small number of SAHM families who want morning.

Plus, we can get lifeguards for morning hours, because they are swim team kids who want to be part of the swim team. But getting teenagers to come at 9 a.m. for lifeguard shifts is going to be hard otherwise.

Finally, there is this weird idea on DCUM that there are two kinds of families, those where both parents work full time exactly 9 - 5 who send their kids to camp, and those with a SAHP. The reality is that the working world is much more diverse than that a.m. practice works for a lot of people. When I think of the families I know who do a.m. practice, we have families whose parents do shift work, or who use grandparents or teenagers as childcare and want that time broken up, or who have parents who are WFH, and kids at an age where a partial day at home works and a full day doesn't, or kids like mine with other significant commitment to a sport or art form or job in the afternoon. Both parents working full time, and using camps all summer is only the norm in a certain UMC bubble.

Sorry to break it to you but swim team is the definition of UMC bubble. Even having a pool membership and everything OP described is peak UMC.

Having parents who work the night shift, or using grandma or a teen sibling babysit to instead of paying for camp each week is UMC bubble?

I think PP meant paying a $1000 “initiation fee”, plus an $800 annual club membership was UMC.

Our pool is a $400 one time membership, and $660 annual, plus $270 for both kids to be on the team. That $930 a year is much less than many people pay for camps.

What do you think is a range for initial cost to join a club? So far I’ve seen anywhere from $675 to $1,800.

I don’t know but obviously I think it includes $400.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I was asking if that's a general range ($675-$1800) for a first year cost to join a club.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the working parents who were pissy their kids couldn’t do morning swim team. The evening swim practices are a direct result of this.

Why not just do PM practice? Families with young kids could go in the morning, then go home to lunch/nap. Older kids would likely start showing up around noon, as the babies/toddlers are leaving, and stay through swim practice. Kids who are in camp would show up for swim practice, and stay until close.

Because not every family, including those whose parents work, has the same schedule you do.

Our a.m. practice takes the entire pool for 3 hours. Fold in the kids who come to p.m. practice and we'd need to close the pool for 4 or 5 hours. That means that many families wouldn't be able to go at all, to accommodate the small number of SAHM families who want morning.

Plus, we can get lifeguards for morning hours, because they are swim team kids who want to be part of the swim team. But getting teenagers to come at 9 a.m. for lifeguard shifts is going to be hard otherwise.

Finally, there is this weird idea on DCUM that there are two kinds of families, those where both parents work full time exactly 9 - 5 who send their kids to camp, and those with a SAHP. The reality is that the working world is much more diverse than that a.m. practice works for a lot of people. When I think of the families I know who do a.m. practice, we have families whose parents do shift work, or who use grandparents or teenagers as childcare and want that time broken up, or who have parents who are WFH, and kids at an age where a partial day at home works and a full day doesn't, or kids like mine with other significant commitment to a sport or art form or job in the afternoon. Both parents working full time, and using camps all summer is only the norm in a certain UMC bubble.

Sorry to break it to you but swim team is the definition of UMC bubble. Even having a pool membership and everything OP described is peak UMC.

Having parents who work the night shift, or using grandma or a teen sibling babysit to instead of paying for camp each week is UMC bubble?

I think PP meant paying a $1000 “initiation fee”, plus an $800 annual club membership was UMC.

Our pool is a $400 one time membership, and $660 annual, plus $270 for both kids to be on the team. That $930 a year is much less than many people pay for camps.

What do you think is a range for initial cost to join a club? So far I’ve seen anywhere from $675 to $1,800.

I don’t know but obviously I think it includes $400.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the working parents who were pissy their kids couldn’t do morning swim team. The evening swim practices are a direct result of this.

Why not just do PM practice? Families with young kids could go in the morning, then go home to lunch/nap. Older kids would likely start showing up around noon, as the babies/toddlers are leaving, and stay through swim practice. Kids who are in camp would show up for swim practice, and stay until close.

Because not every family, including those whose parents work, has the same schedule you do.

Our a.m. practice takes the entire pool for 3 hours. Fold in the kids who come to p.m. practice and we'd need to close the pool for 4 or 5 hours. That means that many families wouldn't be able to go at all, to accommodate the small number of SAHM families who want morning.

Plus, we can get lifeguards for morning hours, because they are swim team kids who want to be part of the swim team. But getting teenagers to come at 9 a.m. for lifeguard shifts is going to be hard otherwise.

Finally, there is this weird idea on DCUM that there are two kinds of families, those where both parents work full time exactly 9 - 5 who send their kids to camp, and those with a SAHP. The reality is that the working world is much more diverse than that a.m. practice works for a lot of people. When I think of the families I know who do a.m. practice, we have families whose parents do shift work, or who use grandparents or teenagers as childcare and want that time broken up, or who have parents who are WFH, and kids at an age where a partial day at home works and a full day doesn't, or kids like mine with other significant commitment to a sport or art form or job in the afternoon. Both parents working full time, and using camps all summer is only the norm in a certain UMC bubble.

Sorry to break it to you but swim team is the definition of UMC bubble. Even having a pool membership and everything OP described is peak UMC.

Having parents who work the night shift, or using grandma or a teen sibling babysit to instead of paying for camp each week is UMC bubble?

I think PP meant paying a $1000 “initiation fee”, plus an $800 annual club membership was UMC.

Our pool is a $400 one time membership, and $660 annual, plus $270 for both kids to be on the team. That $930 a year is much less than many people pay for camps.

What do you think is a range for initial cost to join a club? So far I’ve seen anywhere from $675 to $1,800.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there was a pool that the team didn’t practice in the evening I’d consider switching.

But yeah summer swim dominates all pools.

How old are you? Sounds like a retirement community is what you need.

I’m a PP who said we ended up joining a country club. It’s wonderful, and the swim team only practices in the afternoon but only uses half of the pool and none of the baby pool. Meets are rare (2 home ones a season). I think the best part is there are no crazy parent swim volunteers who get off on little power trips. Instead the practices and meets are staffed with paid coaches and college students. It’s so much better all around. I should add that my kids did swim team at our previous pool and now this one, and getting the insane swim parents out of the picture makes all the difference. OP look at country clubs. Not all of them are expensive, and they’re worth every penny

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the working parents who were pissy their kids couldn’t do morning swim team. The evening swim practices are a direct result of this.

Why not just do PM practice? Families with young kids could go in the morning, then go home to lunch/nap. Older kids would likely start showing up around noon, as the babies/toddlers are leaving, and stay through swim practice. Kids who are in camp would show up for swim practice, and stay until close.

Because not every family, including those whose parents work, has the same schedule you do.

Our a.m. practice takes the entire pool for 3 hours. Fold in the kids who come to p.m. practice and we'd need to close the pool for 4 or 5 hours. That means that many families wouldn't be able to go at all, to accommodate the small number of SAHM families who want morning.

Plus, we can get lifeguards for morning hours, because they are swim team kids who want to be part of the swim team. But getting teenagers to come at 9 a.m. for lifeguard shifts is going to be hard otherwise.

Finally, there is this weird idea on DCUM that there are two kinds of families, those where both parents work full time exactly 9 - 5 who send their kids to camp, and those with a SAHP. The reality is that the working world is much more diverse than that a.m. practice works for a lot of people. When I think of the families I know who do a.m. practice, we have families whose parents do shift work, or who use grandparents or teenagers as childcare and want that time broken up, or who have parents who are WFH, and kids at an age where a partial day at home works and a full day doesn't, or kids like mine with other significant commitment to a sport or art form or job in the afternoon. Both parents working full time, and using camps all summer is only the norm in a certain UMC bubble.

Sorry to break it to you but swim team is the definition of UMC bubble. Even having a pool membership and everything OP described is peak UMC.

Having parents who work the night shift, or using grandma or a teen sibling babysit to instead of paying for camp each week is UMC bubble?

I think PP meant paying a $1000 “initiation fee”, plus an $800 annual club membership was UMC.

Our pool is a $400 one time membership, and $660 annual, plus $270 for both kids to be on the team. That $930 a year is much less than many people pay for camps.