Anonymous wrote:We have a lake home that we rent out and ppl rent it year round but not so much in the winter.
We were scheduled to go a couple weeks ago but it was really bad weather so we didn't go. We had invited our friends to go with us. They do go with us several times in the summer.
We are not in town (or the state for that matter) this weekend and our friends want to go up and stay, without us.
We feel funny about it. We haven't received any rental inquiries for this weekend so I doubt it will be rented.
But, I would never ask someone this.
Is it odd?

I find it weird that they ask, or have expectations to use it. Given that, if they are nice, kind, and you like and trust them - there is no reason why they should not use the house. Will they take care of it as you require, OP? Or will they be disrespectful? Are they good friends in general, or are they pot stirrers? Do you like the people they spend time with, if those people were to visit the house? Are they friendly or judgy? Are they takers, in general? There are many considerations. It depends in what light they have put themselves with you, over time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a lake home that we rent out and ppl rent it year round but not so much in the winter.
We were scheduled to go a couple weeks ago but it was really bad weather so we didn't go. We had invited our friends to go with us. They do go with us several times in the summer.
We are not in town (or the state for that matter) this weekend and our friends want to go up and stay, without us.
We feel funny about it. We haven't received any rental inquiries for this weekend so I doubt it will be rented.
But, I would never ask someone this.
Is it odd?

This is an investment property, not a second home. You need the money you make from it, so that's fine if you don't want to let friends use it for free.

DP here. If someone rents out their house at all, it is their business, it is not up to you to file their taxes for them. Sit down. The differentiation is whether or not the friends are lent the house, not whether or not anything else.

My point is that some people expect to use others people's stuff, including money, including houses, so from that side, it changes the equation. (ie: the "friends" wants vs. the owners "needs").

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Anonymous wrote:And beyond the cleaning fee. There are other fees: electricity, water, gas. Paper products and other consumables need to be refreshed. Heating a pool is very expensive so what if your friends decide to turn that feature on? There is a house manager that needs to check on the home to make sure everything is stocked up and put away for the next set of renters, and locked up. It’s stressful!

People who don’t have a second home, do not know!

I do have a second home and we do let friends stay there. We don't rent it out. If I am crying over electricity, water and gas, I would not have bought a second home. Sometimes, we don't use our house for months. I knew that going in. I am not going to stress over a property. If you can't really afford a second home, don't buy one.

I'm confused. If you actually do own a second home (which I doubt) why are you so worried about what other people who own second homes are doing? Did you antagonize them in a way that they will no longer invite you, or something?

I don't expect anyone with a second home to invite me or not invite me. You seem to be pouting, and trying to dictate what you want them to do. How is that working for you? I don't know anyone with a second home who pouts over what their buddies with second homes do or don't do. Peculiar behavior for an adult, really.

Do you present people who come to dinner at your (first or second) home with a bill at the end of the meal, too?
.

If they ask to come over without being invited and bring nothing to the table I might.

+1

That's the difference. When I invite people to my primary home or my second home, they are my guests. I make them comfortable, provide the food, and would certainly never ask them to pitch in. If someone asked to come to my primary home or my second home when I am not there, they no longer feel like friends or guests. They feel like someone who wants to use my stuff, but also doesn't want to be a paying customer. No matter how much money or property I have, I don't see why I would randomly share it with people who are treating me as a useful person to know after I've treated them as a friend. Real friends come for the company, not for the house. And I don't need fake friends.

Some of us like to share what we have with our friends. You don't. That's fine.

Do you also require that people stay and entertain you for an hour if they need to borrow a cup of sugar?

I'm the poster you're responding to. I haven't actually had someone ask to use my home when I'm not there -- presumably because I have lovely friends who wouldn't ask such a thing because they do want to be with me and not my house! -- but my point is simply that I would feel differently about a friend if they did ask because it makes the whole relationship seem transactional. Maybe some people are comfortable with transactional relationships but it's not my thing so I would steer clear of someone if I got that vibe. It's hard to see the connection between borrowing a cup of sugar and borrowing a house on a ski slope but, yes, it would be a little weird if someone came by and asked for sugar and didn't engage in the normal chit-chat because that is what friends do.

My BIL/SIL have a huge new build beach house that they consider their second home and not at all an investment property. They want it occupied as much as possible in the off season so if they are not going to be there (SIL works remotely there so will go midweek) then either they will offer or we will ask.

DH and I stay at their place maybe 3 times a year and always off season, like a random January weekend.

They do not allow just anyone to stay without them there, although they are great about hosting and inviting family and friends to stay as guests with them. I can think of maybe two very close family friends who stayed gratis and I think one couple may have been on their honeymoon.

No cleaning service, no caretakers. I make certain that I leave their house spotless and immaculate and DH and I do extra projects we come across (sweeping the porch, re-stocking supplies, clean windows) and always leave a few bottles of great liquor.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And beyond the cleaning fee. There are other fees: electricity, water, gas. Paper products and other consumables need to be refreshed. Heating a pool is very expensive so what if your friends decide to turn that feature on? There is a house manager that needs to check on the home to make sure everything is stocked up and put away for the next set of renters, and locked up. It’s stressful!

People who don’t have a second home, do not know!

I do have a second home and we do let friends stay there. We don't rent it out. If I am crying over electricity, water and gas, I would not have bought a second home. Sometimes, we don't use our house for months. I knew that going in. I am not going to stress over a property. If you can't really afford a second home, don't buy one.

I'm confused. If you actually do own a second home (which I doubt) why are you so worried about what other people who own second homes are doing? Did you antagonize them in a way that they will no longer invite you, or something?

I don't expect anyone with a second home to invite me or not invite me. You seem to be pouting, and trying to dictate what you want them to do. How is that working for you? I don't know anyone with a second home who pouts over what their buddies with second homes do or don't do. Peculiar behavior for an adult, really.

I do own a second home. I am on DCUMs where the subject is about letting your friends stay in your second home. What are you talking about? Our friends don't "expect" us to invite them to our house. They don't have too, but we do offer the house to our friends because we don't actually use it that much. It is only 80 miles from DC so it's really convenient. I just work a lot and we have a very active social life in DC so I don't get there often. My husband goes down more than I do.

I just find it strange that people are so cheap. With that said, we don't rent our house so we don't worry about whether the house is spotless and everything is put away for the next renters.

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There is no way it is over a thousand dollars. Only people that don’t have beach houses would believe you. We have a house on Martha’s Vineyard. We pay our caretaker monthly and the water and electricity is on. So that makes a cleaning fee, which is less than what I pay here. And we have enough money that the cleaning fee isn’t a big deal for us to pay for the few people that use our house. But we also don’t rent our house out because we don’t need the money and don’t want strangers in our house. So I’m guessing you need to rent your Dewy Beach/Rehoboth house just to afford it. You don’t want to say where it is, because everyone will know you are just making things up.

NP, but now I don’t believe you. I have a close friend with a 2500 sq foot house on MV. We have a 5000 sq foot home in DE. They rent their house out for a couple weeks in the summer and have it professionally cleaned afterward. They pay $1000-1200 each time. We pay much less than that in DE, but still significantly more than we pay to clean our similarly sized home in Bethesda. Everyone I know in resort towns complains about the high cost of cleaning, especially vs their primary home, yet you are claiming you pay less for your second home? Who is cleaning sheets and changing bedding, emptying the refrigerator, turning off the pool heater, etc? No eat the cleaning company is doing all that for no money.

I’m surprised you live in a similar size house as your beach house. Delaware real estate is really cheap! Our house here is almost three times the size of our beach house. I’d love to know what cleaning company deals with pools. That’s our caretaker’s job. And as far as cleaning out the fridge, again, we don’t rent our house out. Family and friends throw away whatever they bring. It’s just a regular cleaning and it costs less than my house here. Our house is bigger than your friend’s, so I think your friend is paying too much. Though based on what you are saying, I’d bet she uses a real estate agent that acts like a caretaker, booking agent and arranges cleaning. That would account for a fee like that. She should have these all as separate services. But it’s probably a lot easier if you rent your house out. She should seriously look around at the independent cleaners on the island which charge anywhere from $20-40 an hour. It is also better for the local economy to support independent workers.

Anonymous wrote:It is not odd.

We have several properties in Aspen, Hamptons, SF, and NYC. Our primary is MD.

Hard no for friends without us. Not friends and not siblings, or cousins etc no one.

The only time I let someone do this was after a loss of a child.

That was really nice. I know she/they really wanted to escape life at that point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a lake home that we rent out and ppl rent it year round but not so much in the winter.
We were scheduled to go a couple weeks ago but it was really bad weather so we didn't go. We had invited our friends to go with us. They do go with us several times in the summer.
We are not in town (or the state for that matter) this weekend and our friends want to go up and stay, without us.
We feel funny about it. We haven't received any rental inquiries for this weekend so I doubt it will be rented.
But, I would never ask someone this.
Is it odd?

This is an investment property, not a second home. You need the money you make from it, so that's fine if you don't want to let friends use it for free.

BTW, OP, if you do let friends or family use this property you will need to report those days on your Federal income tax as "personal use" days. There is no such thing as a "free" lunch nor are there "freebies" when it comes to using someone else's rental property.

Great point!

I can’t understand why people want to go through the hassle of having an out of town investment property just to use it 14 days a year.

Seems like timeshares were made for these types of people.

But then again, I guess it makes you sound more superior on dcum to say you have a “second home” rather than a timeshare (which sounds trashy to the dcum striver set).

But owning an investment vacation property vs paying 100k for a timeshare doesn’t seem to be all that different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a lake home that we rent out and ppl rent it year round but not so much in the winter.
We were scheduled to go a couple weeks ago but it was really bad weather so we didn't go. We had invited our friends to go with us. They do go with us several times in the summer.
We are not in town (or the state for that matter) this weekend and our friends want to go up and stay, without us.
We feel funny about it. We haven't received any rental inquiries for this weekend so I doubt it will be rented.
But, I would never ask someone this.
Is it odd?

This is an investment property, not a second home. You need the money you make from it, so that's fine if you don't want to let friends use it for free.

BTW, OP, if you do let friends or family use this property you will need to report those days on your Federal income tax as "personal use" days. There is no such thing as a "free" lunch nor are there "freebies" when it comes to using someone else's rental property.

N.B- when people are wondering how a dcum poster can have an income of 300k, 2 kids, and a second house - just know that their second house is generating 50k of their income which they depend on to have their “second house”

Anonymous wrote:We have a lake home that we rent out and ppl rent it year round but not so much in the winter.
We were scheduled to go a couple weeks ago but it was really bad weather so we didn't go. We had invited our friends to go with us. They do go with us several times in the summer.
We are not in town (or the state for that matter) this weekend and our friends want to go up and stay, without us.
We feel funny about it. We haven't received any rental inquiries for this weekend so I doubt it will be rented.
But, I would never ask someone this.
Is it odd?

This is an investment property, not a second home. You need the money you make from it, so that's fine if you don't want to let friends use it for free.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:And beyond the cleaning fee. There are other fees: electricity, water, gas. Paper products and other consumables need to be refreshed. Heating a pool is very expensive so what if your friends decide to turn that feature on? There is a house manager that needs to check on the home to make sure everything is stocked up and put away for the next set of renters, and locked up. It’s stressful!

People who don’t have a second home, do not know!

I do have a second home and we do let friends stay there. We don't rent it out. If I am crying over electricity, water and gas, I would not have bought a second home. Sometimes, we don't use our house for months. I knew that going in. I am not going to stress over a property. If you can't really afford a second home, don't buy one.

I'm confused. If you actually do own a second home (which I doubt) why are you so worried about what other people who own second homes are doing? Did you antagonize them in a way that they will no longer invite you, or something?

I don't expect anyone with a second home to invite me or not invite me. You seem to be pouting, and trying to dictate what you want them to do. How is that working for you? I don't know anyone with a second home who pouts over what their buddies with second homes do or don't do. Peculiar behavior for an adult, really.

Do you present people who come to dinner at your (first or second) home with a bill at the end of the meal, too?
.

If they ask to come over without being invited and bring nothing to the table I might.

+1

That's the difference. When I invite people to my primary home or my second home, they are my guests. I make them comfortable, provide the food, and would certainly never ask them to pitch in. If someone asked to come to my primary home or my second home when I am not there, they no longer feel like friends or guests. They feel like someone who wants to use my stuff, but also doesn't want to be a paying customer. No matter how much money or property I have, I don't see why I would randomly share it with people who are treating me as a useful person to know after I've treated them as a friend. Real friends come for the company, not for the house. And I don't need fake friends.

We have friends who stay with us, and also use our places when we're not there. We also stay with them, and also use their places when they're elsewhere. We have keys to each other's houses.

I'm sorry you feel used.

DP here. I think PP is making the point that you might be one of those, not that she is surrounded by that type - which is understandable, because they exist. You do seem defensive, however.

There are certain people that you want in your house when you are away, and other kinds of people that you would not want in your house while you are away. As long as you are not the latter, don't worry about it so much.

DP. Don't call someone defensive when some PPs continually claim that anyone saying they would share their second home doesn't have one. There are multiple people posting on here (I know because I am one but there are many, many other posts saying the same thing I have said) that they do let their friends stay in their second home. Then PP says we're all lying and don't actually have second homes or if we do they're in podunk towns.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And beyond the cleaning fee. There are other fees: electricity, water, gas. Paper products and other consumables need to be refreshed. Heating a pool is very expensive so what if your friends decide to turn that feature on? There is a house manager that needs to check on the home to make sure everything is stocked up and put away for the next set of renters, and locked up. It’s stressful!

People who don’t have a second home, do not know!

I do have a second home and we do let friends stay there. We don't rent it out. If I am crying over electricity, water and gas, I would not have bought a second home. Sometimes, we don't use our house for months. I knew that going in. I am not going to stress over a property. If you can't really afford a second home, don't buy one.

I'm confused. If you actually do own a second home (which I doubt) why are you so worried about what other people who own second homes are doing? Did you antagonize them in a way that they will no longer invite you, or something?

I don't expect anyone with a second home to invite me or not invite me. You seem to be pouting, and trying to dictate what you want them to do. How is that working for you? I don't know anyone with a second home who pouts over what their buddies with second homes do or don't do. Peculiar behavior for an adult, really.

Do you present people who come to dinner at your (first or second) home with a bill at the end of the meal, too?
.

If they ask to come over without being invited and bring nothing to the table I might.

+1

That's the difference. When I invite people to my primary home or my second home, they are my guests. I make them comfortable, provide the food, and would certainly never ask them to pitch in. If someone asked to come to my primary home or my second home when I am not there, they no longer feel like friends or guests. They feel like someone who wants to use my stuff, but also doesn't want to be a paying customer. No matter how much money or property I have, I don't see why I would randomly share it with people who are treating me as a useful person to know after I've treated them as a friend. Real friends come for the company, not for the house. And I don't need fake friends.

Some of us like to share what we have with our friends. You don't. That's fine.

Do you also require that people stay and entertain you for an hour if they need to borrow a cup of sugar?

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Anonymous wrote:So many people on DCUM just assume that others have bad intentions, including their close friends. That's weird to me. It's clear that OP doesn't want to let her friends stay there because she perceives that they're asking for a monetary gift (which I don't see, but whatever), and will dig her heels in farther and farther any time there is pushback. So you do you, OP. I think it will be awkward this way, but you seem prepared to deal with that.

I think the friends made it awkward.

+1 Same. You can tell who does not own a second home, by their responses. For instance, cleaning fees alone, during season are about $500. (no, I won't divulge where). This may be difficult for non-owners to grasp, especially since some people are of the "Robin Hood" mindset. It beats paying full rental price, but takers don't see it that way.

We get it. We have second homes. We just don't mind paying a few hundred dollars for our friends to use our house. You do you.

You don't get it, because it is well over a thousand dollars not a few hundred dollars (by the time you pay the professional cleaning company plus professional caretaker for their visits, etc.). It is not some podunk town, it is on the beach. So no, you don't get it.

My house is at the beach, dimwit. You were discussing a $500 cleaning fee, which is what I responded to. I get paying for water, electric, caretaker, etc. It doesn't sound like you have a lot of friends so I doubt you get asked to use your house much anyway.

We actually have a few nice circles of friends and family, but they have their own beach houses so they are not leaches who have to resort to name calling (if they don't get to use their friends beach house). Ahem.

It's leeches. My friends also have second homes (note, not investment properties like you seem to have) in various places (lakes, mountains, city condos, etc.) and we don't have problems sharing with other like-minded friends.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And beyond the cleaning fee. There are other fees: electricity, water, gas. Paper products and other consumables need to be refreshed. Heating a pool is very expensive so what if your friends decide to turn that feature on? There is a house manager that needs to check on the home to make sure everything is stocked up and put away for the next set of renters, and locked up. It’s stressful!

People who don’t have a second home, do not know!

I do have a second home and we do let friends stay there. We don't rent it out. If I am crying over electricity, water and gas, I would not have bought a second home. Sometimes, we don't use our house for months. I knew that going in. I am not going to stress over a property. If you can't really afford a second home, don't buy one.

I'm confused. If you actually do own a second home (which I doubt) why are you so worried about what other people who own second homes are doing? Did you antagonize them in a way that they will no longer invite you, or something?

I don't expect anyone with a second home to invite me or not invite me. You seem to be pouting, and trying to dictate what you want them to do. How is that working for you? I don't know anyone with a second home who pouts over what their buddies with second homes do or don't do. Peculiar behavior for an adult, really.

Do you present people who come to dinner at your (first or second) home with a bill at the end of the meal, too?
.

If they ask to come over without being invited and bring nothing to the table I might.

+1

That's the difference. When I invite people to my primary home or my second home, they are my guests. I make them comfortable, provide the food, and would certainly never ask them to pitch in. If someone asked to come to my primary home or my second home when I am not there, they no longer feel like friends or guests. They feel like someone who wants to use my stuff, but also doesn't want to be a paying customer. No matter how much money or property I have, I don't see why I would randomly share it with people who are treating me as a useful person to know after I've treated them as a friend. Real friends come for the company, not for the house. And I don't need fake friends.

We have friends who stay with us, and also use our places when we're not there. We also stay with them, and also use their places when they're elsewhere. We have keys to each other's houses.

I'm sorry you feel used.

DP here. I think PP is making the point that you might be one of those, not that she is surrounded by that type - which is understandable, because they exist. You do seem defensive, however.

There are certain people that you want in your house when you are away, and other kinds of people that you would not want in your house while you are away. As long as you are not the latter, don't worry about it so much.

To add, if you are nice enough, maybe the owners will tell you where to find local well-kept insider information on what to do and where to go