Anonymous wrote:So how do we fight the upzoning? Seems to me residential neighborhoods across the DMV...Arlington, MoCo, DC should lock arms and form a coalition with muscle to match the cunning of the density bros. How do we do this? Pool resources and advocacy?

I don't want this to happen either and think it is terrible policy. However, the density bros are funded by a dedicated group of wealthy developers who will never stop advocating for their ridiculous urban planning ideas. Homeowners in single-family neighborhoods need to be proactive and establish protective covenants that will prevent the destruction of their community (by forbidding subdivision, multifamily properties, establishing contractual setback limits, etc.) while this is still possible. Save your neighborhood now while you have the chance. If the density bros win, they might do what Washington state did and ban new single-family neighborhoods by making it illegal to establish new protective covenants that prevent multifamily housing. Establishing a contractual deed restriction with your neighbors now will protect you from these changes. It would likely be ruled unconstitutional to invalidate a legally established contract before law enactment retroactively.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people not understand there’s a shit ton of cheap housing in this area? PG, most of Silver Spring (it’s a massive area), Gaithersburg, etc? No one needs to move to Iowa. You just maybe can’t afford to live in Bethesda. Neither can I.

Define "cheap".

I don't understand why people believe this is a "Evearyone wants to live in Bethesda!!!!!!11111" problem.

The median Montgomery household ($125,000) can barely afford a townhouse in Clarksburg($500,000ish).

Denying the housing crisis is the new denying the crime crisis.

Median income doesn't need to support the median SFH. It needs to tend to support the median cost of shelter, including rental properties, condos/apartments, etc.

Clarksburg isn't exactly a median location either.

Let's take Rockville as "median" MoCo. The median household can comfortably rent an average 2BR apartment. Hard sell for a family of 4.

Anonymous wrote:

But here we are, with developer proxies demonizing folks for wanting to have a say in the livability characteristics of their neighborhoods. Not surprising, but disappointing, just the same.

Folks can have all the say they want. But they can't, and shouldn't, have the say-so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people not understand there’s a shit ton of cheap housing in this area? PG, most of Silver Spring (it’s a massive area), Gaithersburg, etc? No one needs to move to Iowa. You just maybe can’t afford to live in Bethesda. Neither can I.

Define "cheap".

I don't understand why people believe this is a "Evearyone wants to live in Bethesda!!!!!!11111" problem.

The median Montgomery household ($125,000) can barely afford a townhouse in Clarksburg($500,000ish).

Denying the housing crisis is the new denying the crime crisis.

Median income doesn't need to support the median SFH. It needs to tend to support the median cost of shelter, including rental properties, condos/apartments, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how do we fight the upzoning? Seems to me residential neighborhoods across the DMV...Arlington, MoCo, DC should lock arms and form a coalition with muscle to match the cunning of the density bros. How do we do this? Pool resources and advocacy?

The best way to fight upzoning in MoCo is to keep the region and the country from growing. If you are ok with population growth, those people will have to go somewhere. We are out of "good" places to put all these extra people, so upzoning close in suburbs of economic hubs is among the "least bad" options.

Also keep in mind that almost all of MoCo used to be agricultural and was upzoned to become suburban as the region grew. As the region grows, more will be upzoned.

Sorry, there are plenty of "good" places to build all sorts of condos, apartments, townhouses, etc, without affecting the SFH areas.

Let me guess, these "good" places are currently green spaces on the outer edges of the county?

DP. There's plenty of under-utilized footprint in the downtown SS area, even without the unnecessary expansion they pushed through.

Developers that might build the higher structures are just waiting around until the government caves on subsidies, allowances and restrictions so that it becomes super-low-hanging fruit (highest profit potential). They are content to focus elsewhere in the meantime, letting those entities currently owning the high-density-zoned land do the pleading for them so that they, themselves, can exit with a higher return.

All of this is because these folks know that the government is a push-over for those allowances, etc. If there wasn't the expectation that they could make an extra couple million if they waited a bit, truer market dynamics in an area of growing population would lead to those becoming low-hanging fruit in any case.

Meanwhile, developers of a different sort try to take advantage of the foot-dragging, there. Home builders (not so much of the massive development/whole community type), see that they can make better buck with multi-family x-plexes when they tear down an older/smaller SFH than with an up-sized SFH replacement. They are counting on the same poor government attention to the interests of communities to get whatever buzzword their proxies currently use codified to allow them to do so.

That's for close in. Farther out, there's growth of attached or detached SFHs to be had, for sure, but, again, it isn't as lucrative because the demand is less. Of course people are more likely to want proximity, all other factors being equal.

While helping with affordability would be nice, pushing for a public burden to get everyone what they want instead of what they might need is fools gold. Particularly, I don't think MoCo or its various communities are beholden to bend to whatever developers might desire.

Even more particularly, I think the burdens/externalities of the various campaigns fall in a heavily differential manner, most so and with most lasting effect on residents of closer-in detached SFH neighborhoods who made highly consequential financial and life decisions accordingly. They are a pretty small minority when considered versus the entire population of the county, though. Minority rights are often trampled when a majority gets an idea in its head but does not want to face the moral reality of those resulting burdens.

But here we are, with developer proxies demonizing folks for wanting to have a say in the livability characteristics of their neighborhoods. Not surprising, but disappointing, just the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people not understand there’s a shit ton of cheap housing in this area? PG, most of Silver Spring (it’s a massive area), Gaithersburg, etc? No one needs to move to Iowa. You just maybe can’t afford to live in Bethesda. Neither can I.

Define "cheap".

I don't understand why people believe this is a "Evearyone wants to live in Bethesda!!!!!!11111" problem.

The median Montgomery household ($125,000) can barely afford a townhouse in Clarksburg($500,000ish).

Denying the housing crisis is the new denying the crime crisis.

Which is why it’s a GOOD thing that developers are focusing on building more apartments and condos that the middle class can actually afford. Not everyone can afford or should be trying to buy a house. I’m sorry but it’s true.

Real middle class cannot afford $500K.

Anonymous wrote:Do people not understand there’s a shit ton of cheap housing in this area? PG, most of Silver Spring (it’s a massive area), Gaithersburg, etc? No one needs to move to Iowa. You just maybe can’t afford to live in Bethesda. Neither can I.

Most of those areas aren't that cheap anymore. My house is a sh@t shack (1200 square feet) and what was $400K, is now $600K. That's not affordable when they are fixer uppers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people not understand there’s a shit ton of cheap housing in this area? PG, most of Silver Spring (it’s a massive area), Gaithersburg, etc? No one needs to move to Iowa. You just maybe can’t afford to live in Bethesda. Neither can I.

Define "cheap".

I don't understand why people believe this is a "Evearyone wants to live in Bethesda!!!!!!11111" problem.

The median Montgomery household ($125,000) can barely afford a townhouse in Clarksburg($500,000ish).

Denying the housing crisis is the new denying the crime crisis.

Which is why it’s a GOOD thing that developers are focusing on building more apartments and condos that the middle class can actually afford. Not everyone can afford or should be trying to buy a house. I’m sorry but it’s true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people not understand there’s a shit ton of cheap housing in this area? PG, most of Silver Spring (it’s a massive area), Gaithersburg, etc? No one needs to move to Iowa. You just maybe can’t afford to live in Bethesda. Neither can I.

Define "cheap".

I don't understand why people believe this is a "Evearyone wants to live in Bethesda!!!!!!11111" problem.

The median Montgomery household ($125,000) can barely afford a townhouse in Clarksburg($500,000ish).

Denying the housing crisis is the new denying the crime crisis.

Anonymous wrote:Do people not understand there’s a shit ton of cheap housing in this area? PG, most of Silver Spring (it’s a massive area), Gaithersburg, etc? No one needs to move to Iowa. You just maybe can’t afford to live in Bethesda. Neither can I.

Define "cheap".

I don't understand why people believe this is a "Evearyone wants to live in Bethesda!!!!!!11111" problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how do we fight the upzoning? Seems to me residential neighborhoods across the DMV...Arlington, MoCo, DC should lock arms and form a coalition with muscle to match the cunning of the density bros. How do we do this? Pool resources and advocacy?

The best way to fight upzoning in MoCo is to keep the region and the country from growing. If you are ok with population growth, those people will have to go somewhere. We are out of "good" places to put all these extra people, so upzoning close in suburbs of economic hubs is among the "least bad" options.

Also keep in mind that almost all of MoCo used to be agricultural and was upzoned to become suburban as the region grew. As the region grows, more will be upzoned.

Sorry, there are plenty of "good" places to build all sorts of condos, apartments, townhouses, etc, without affecting the SFH areas.

Let me guess, these "good" places are currently green spaces on the outer edges of the county?

Anonymous wrote:Do people not understand there’s a shit ton of cheap housing in this area? PG, most of Silver Spring (it’s a massive area), Gaithersburg, etc? No one needs to move to Iowa. You just maybe can’t afford to live in Bethesda. Neither can I.

I live in silver spring and to hear people talk it’s unaffordable here too.

Do people not understand there’s a shit ton of cheap housing in this area? PG, most of Silver Spring (it’s a massive area), Gaithersburg, etc? No one needs to move to Iowa. You just maybe can’t afford to live in Bethesda. Neither can I.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how do we fight the upzoning? Seems to me residential neighborhoods across the DMV...Arlington, MoCo, DC should lock arms and form a coalition with muscle to match the cunning of the density bros. How do we do this? Pool resources and advocacy?

The best way to fight upzoning in MoCo is to keep the region and the country from growing. If you are ok with population growth, those people will have to go somewhere. We are out of "good" places to put all these extra people, so upzoning close in suburbs of economic hubs is among the "least bad" options.

Also keep in mind that almost all of MoCo used to be agricultural and was upzoned to become suburban as the region grew. As the region grows, more will be upzoned.

Sorry, there are plenty of "good" places to build all sorts of condos, apartments, townhouses, etc, without affecting the SFH areas.

It’s no accident that rents in Bethesda started leveling off and even dropping once landlords started getting sued for colluding. Sure, Bethesda has added some units, but not enough to cause 15 to 20 percent drops in asking rents over the last six months.