Anonymous wrote:As the usable responses began to come in, I found that 5,337 biologists (96%) affirmed that a human’s life begins at fertilization, with 240 (4%) rejecting that view. The majority of the sample identified as liberal (89%), pro-choice (85%) and non-religious (63%). In the case of Americans who expressed party preference, the majority identified as Democrats (92%).

https://quillette.com/2019/10/16/i-asked-thousands-of-biologists-when-life-begins-the-answer-wasnt-popular/

https://nathannobis.medium.com/when-does-life-begin-and-are-fetuses-human-two-bad-questions-to-ask-about-abortion-12477b37e967

As the usable responses began to come in, I found that 5,337 biologists (96%) affirmed that a human’s life begins at fertilization, with 240 (4%) rejecting that view. The majority of the sample identified as liberal (89%), pro-choice (85%) and non-religious (63%). In the case of Americans who expressed party preference, the majority identified as Democrats (92%).

https://quillette.com/2019/10/16/i-asked-thousands-of-biologists-when-life-begins-the-answer-wasnt-popular/

Anonymous wrote:I am going to assume that the rigid anti-choice person also believes that removing terminally ill people from a ventilator constitutes murder?

(which is done every day in hospitals across the US)

Still waiting for an answer on this one...?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

1. For clarity, the heart is stopped first with medication. This I know because a family member underwent the procedure after the anatomy scan detected a fatal abnormality that meant that the baby would die after birth. They decided that they did not want to carry for another 20 weeks then watch the baby suffer and die.

2. Just for clarify, are you calling my family member evil for that decision? Saying they would be equivalent to someone who owned slaves? WTAF??????

Worse. Even slaves wanted and were allowed to live.

Got it. And do you believe that your beliefs should override the will of the majority of Americans who believe differently than you do? Because the majority of Americans DO believe that there should be exceptions for situations including fatal abnormalities, the health of the mother.

Do you believe that the opinion of a minority should override democracy?

No I don’t. In a democracy 2 wolves and a lamb get to vote on what’s for dinner. That’s just the way it goes.

Guess the majority of people in America are wolves. You can always move to Iraq though, so keep your options open.

91% support abortion when the woman’s life is in danger and 86% support exceptions in the case of rape or incest, and AP/NORC’s June polling found 69% support protecting access to abortion for miscarriages and other medical emergencies.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/07/30/how-americans-really-feel-about-abortion-the-sometimes-surprising-poll-results-as-2024-election-heats-up/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

1. For clarity, the heart is stopped first with medication. This I know because a family member underwent the procedure after the anatomy scan detected a fatal abnormality that meant that the baby would die after birth. They decided that they did not want to carry for another 20 weeks then watch the baby suffer and die.

2. Just for clarify, are you calling my family member evil for that decision? Saying they would be equivalent to someone who owned slaves? WTAF??????

Worse. Even slaves wanted and were allowed to live.

You probably complain about taxes being too high, not realizing that insurance doesn’t usually pay the bill for this. All those machines to keep a premie alive are very costly and kids with birth defects like this are usually on Medicaid from birth to death. Sure that may only be a month or two, but what a tax bill! Preemies cost up to 20K a DAY in the NICU.
And you don’t want to pay for school. If a preemie is in the NICU for 31 days, that would pay for K-12 education for 3 kids. All on tax payer money.

This doesn’t even calculate in, if the kid survives, the cost of schooling through age 21 for a highly intensive SPED kid.

It should be parent choice if they want to take this on, not yours.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

1. For clarity, the heart is stopped first with medication. This I know because a family member underwent the procedure after the anatomy scan detected a fatal abnormality that meant that the baby would die after birth. They decided that they did not want to carry for another 20 weeks then watch the baby suffer and die.

2. Just for clarify, are you calling my family member evil for that decision? Saying they would be equivalent to someone who owned slaves? WTAF??????

Worse. Even slaves wanted and were allowed to live.

Got it. And do you believe that your beliefs should override the will of the majority of Americans who believe differently than you do? Because the majority of Americans DO believe that there should be exceptions for situations including fatal abnormalities, the health of the mother.

Do you believe that the opinion of a minority should override democracy?

No I don’t. In a democracy 2 wolves and a lamb get to vote on what’s for dinner. That’s just the way it goes.

DP. Do you have a daughter? If you do, would you put her life at risk for a doomed pregnancy, or force her to give birth to a baby only to spend minutes to an hour watching that baby suffocate and die in terrible pain? Or are you one of these people who are all about God's will and that suffering puts us closer to God?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

1. For clarity, the heart is stopped first with medication. This I know because a family member underwent the procedure after the anatomy scan detected a fatal abnormality that meant that the baby would die after birth. They decided that they did not want to carry for another 20 weeks then watch the baby suffer and die.

2. Just for clarify, are you calling my family member evil for that decision? Saying they would be equivalent to someone who owned slaves? WTAF??????

Worse. Even slaves wanted and were allowed to live.

Got it. And do you believe that your beliefs should override the will of the majority of Americans who believe differently than you do? Because the majority of Americans DO believe that there should be exceptions for situations including fatal abnormalities, the health of the mother.

Do you believe that the opinion of a minority should override democracy?

No I don’t. In a democracy 2 wolves and a lamb get to vote on what’s for dinner. That’s just the way it goes.

Yep. People are bad (deep inside they know it and are violently defensive)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

1. For clarity, the heart is stopped first with medication. This I know because a family member underwent the procedure after the anatomy scan detected a fatal abnormality that meant that the baby would die after birth. They decided that they did not want to carry for another 20 weeks then watch the baby suffer and die.

2. Just for clarify, are you calling my family member evil for that decision? Saying they would be equivalent to someone who owned slaves? WTAF??????

Worse. Even slaves wanted and were allowed to live.

Got it. And do you believe that your beliefs should override the will of the majority of Americans who believe differently than you do? Because the majority of Americans DO believe that there should be exceptions for situations including fatal abnormalities, the health of the mother.

Do you believe that the opinion of a minority should override democracy?

No I don’t. In a democracy 2 wolves and a lamb get to vote on what’s for dinner. That’s just the way it goes.

I am going to assume that the rigid anti-choice person also believes that removing terminally ill people from a ventilator constitutes murder?

(which is done every day in hospitals across the US)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

1. For clarity, the heart is stopped first with medication. This I know because a family member underwent the procedure after the anatomy scan detected a fatal abnormality that meant that the baby would die after birth. They decided that they did not want to carry for another 20 weeks then watch the baby suffer and die.

2. Just for clarify, are you calling my family member evil for that decision? Saying they would be equivalent to someone who owned slaves? WTAF??????

Worse. Even slaves wanted and were allowed to live.

Got it. And do you believe that your beliefs should override the will of the majority of Americans who believe differently than you do? Because the majority of Americans DO believe that there should be exceptions for situations including fatal abnormalities, the health of the mother.

Do you believe that the opinion of a minority should override democracy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

1. For clarity, the heart is stopped first with medication. This I know because a family member underwent the procedure after the anatomy scan detected a fatal abnormality that meant that the baby would die after birth. They decided that they did not want to carry for another 20 weeks then watch the baby suffer and die.

2. Just for clarify, are you calling my family member evil for that decision? Saying they would be equivalent to someone who owned slaves? WTAF??????

PP who listed all they ways pregnancy can turn fatal, and my experience is yes, they absolutely are insinuating that.

I had an ectopic pregnancy and was asked by 2 extremely "pro-life" (former) friends if I had considered just "praying about it" before following my doctor's advice to terminate via methotrexate. Even though I am Christian, it was highly offensive that my life suddenly didn't matter to these people, and they valued a doomed pregnancy more than me.

A friend of mine had to terminate one of her twins to save the other, and the comments she got were unreal. These people Just. Don't. Care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

1. For clarity, the heart is stopped first with medication. This I know because a family member underwent the procedure after the anatomy scan detected a fatal abnormality that meant that the baby would die after birth. They decided that they did not want to carry for another 20 weeks then watch the baby suffer and die.

2. Just for clarify, are you calling my family member evil for that decision? Saying they would be equivalent to someone who owned slaves? WTAF??????

Worse. Even slaves wanted and were allowed to live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

1. For clarity, the heart is stopped first with medication. This I know because a family member underwent the procedure after the anatomy scan detected a fatal abnormality that meant that the baby would die after birth. They decided that they did not want to carry for another 20 weeks then watch the baby suffer and die.

2. Just for clarify, are you calling my family member evil for that decision? Saying they would be equivalent to someone who owned slaves? WTAF??????

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would I kill myself for an h born when I have living children to take care of!?!?

How are you killing yourself?

Ectopic pregnancies
Sepsis
Infection due to PPROM
Extreme cases of HG
Cancers discovered during pregnancy
Heart conditions discovered during pregnancy
Pre-existing heart or kidney conditions or other health conditions for which pregnancy poses extreme risks
Placental abruption
Pre-eclampsia
Etc
Etc
Etc

All of the above can be fatal to the mother. All can result in life-altering consequences to the mother and limit or prohibit her ability to carry future pregnancies or take care of children she already has.

Have you never known anyone in your life who has had a life-threatening pregnancy? How fortunate.

Then don’t have sex I guess? These are like the arguments made against ending slavery before machinery and electricity. Working a farm by hand in the hot summer sun is way deadlier than pregnancy. The abuse of the helpless for the convenience of the strong is wrong in every age.

Oh, you mean aim for being a childless cat lady? I'm sure JD Vance and others of his ilk would just LOVE it if their wives started denying sex for fear of getting pregnant and losing their own right to life should a potential complication occur.

Anybody who would stab a developing helpless human in the head to avoid pregnancy would definitely have had slaves to avoid working a farm with hand tools. Even slaves wanted to live so in a way abortion is worse. People never change and are really bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody knows when human life begins or when there is a soul in the baby. Best to err on the safe side.

When Human Life Begins
American College of Pediatricians – March 2017

ABSTRACT: The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is one of form, not nature. This statement focuses on the scientific evidence of when an individual human life begins.

https://acpeds.org/position-statements/when-human-life-begins

The American College of Pediatricians is a anti-abortion advocacy group and is not the American Academy of Pediatrics which is the actual professional association of pediatricians.

Biologists from 1,058 academic institutions around the world assessed survey items on when a human's life begins and, overall, 96% (5337 out of 5577) affirmed the fertilization view.

The Scientific Consensus on When a Human's Life Begins


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/#:~:text=Peer%2Dreviewed%20journals%20in%20the,%22the%20fertilization%20view%22).

https://nathannobis.medium.com/when-does-life-begin-and-are-fetuses-human-two-bad-questions-to-ask-about-abortion-12477b37e967