Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Greece v. Galloway ruled that towns who open government meetings with an invocation cannot only restrict these invocations to Christian invocations. Yet pretty frequently when a minority religion or group asks to give an invocation, they get stonewalled, the rules change and invocations go away, or new rules are put in place that don't specifically, but effectively, make it so that only Christians and an occasional Jew get to speak.

“Question
Does the invocation of prayer at a legislative session violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment even in the absence of discrimination in the selection of prayer-givers and content?

No. Justice Anthony Kennedy delivered the opinion for the 5-4 majority. The Court held that the context and jurisprudence surrounding the First Amendment suggested that the Establishment Clause was never meant to prohibit legislative prayer, which created the proper deliberative mood and acknowledged religion's role in society. The content of this prayer does not need to be non-sectarian, because such a requirement would place the courts in the role of arbiters of religious speech, which would involve the government in religion to an extent that is impermissible under the Establishment Clause. The Court thus held that the prayers in question do not violate this tradition and are therefore acceptable under the First Amendment. Justice Kennedy further argued that legislative prayer is primarily for the members of the legislative body, and therefore such prayers do not coerce the public into religious observance.“

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2013/12-696

I think that decision was solid.

What, do you want 5 member town councils to spend thousands of dollars flying people in from distant locations to pray with them before their council meetings? Or perhaps you want a Satanist who really is an atheist with a fake name (Doug Mesner/Douglas Misicko) get up in front of everyone and ramble on about how nothing created everything? Hard pass.

It's not that I think that town councils should be obligated to pay money to fly people in in the name of diversity, but when a town has only Christian speakers ever, and a non-Christian shows up and says, hey, I'd like to offer to be a speaker for this, and then they suddenly *change the rules* to lock those people out, because they don't want to have to even *listen* to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Greece v. Galloway ruled that towns who open government meetings with an invocation cannot only restrict these invocations to Christian invocations. Yet pretty frequently when a minority religion or group asks to give an invocation, they get stonewalled, the rules change and invocations go away, or new rules are put in place that don't specifically, but effectively, make it so that only Christians and an occasional Jew get to speak.

“Question
Does the invocation of prayer at a legislative session violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment even in the absence of discrimination in the selection of prayer-givers and content?

No. Justice Anthony Kennedy delivered the opinion for the 5-4 majority. The Court held that the context and jurisprudence surrounding the First Amendment suggested that the Establishment Clause was never meant to prohibit legislative prayer, which created the proper deliberative mood and acknowledged religion's role in society. The content of this prayer does not need to be non-sectarian, because such a requirement would place the courts in the role of arbiters of religious speech, which would involve the government in religion to an extent that is impermissible under the Establishment Clause. The Court thus held that the prayers in question do not violate this tradition and are therefore acceptable under the First Amendment. Justice Kennedy further argued that legislative prayer is primarily for the members of the legislative body, and therefore such prayers do not coerce the public into religious observance.“

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2013/12-696

I think that decision was solid.

What, do you want 5 member town councils to spend thousands of dollars flying people in from distant locations to pray with them before their council meetings? Or perhaps you want a Satanist who really is an atheist with a fake name (Doug Mesner/Douglas Misicko) get up in front of everyone and ramble on about how nothing created everything? Hard pass.

It's not that I think that town councils should be obligated to pay money to fly people in in the name of diversity, but when a town has only Christian speakers ever, and a non-Christian shows up and says, hey, I'd like to offer to be a speaker for this, and then they suddenly *change the rules* to lock those people out, because they don't want to have to even *listen* to them.

Anonymous wrote:Greece v. Galloway ruled that towns who open government meetings with an invocation cannot only restrict these invocations to Christian invocations. Yet pretty frequently when a minority religion or group asks to give an invocation, they get stonewalled, the rules change and invocations go away, or new rules are put in place that don't specifically, but effectively, make it so that only Christians and an occasional Jew get to speak.

“Question
Does the invocation of prayer at a legislative session violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment even in the absence of discrimination in the selection of prayer-givers and content?

No. Justice Anthony Kennedy delivered the opinion for the 5-4 majority. The Court held that the context and jurisprudence surrounding the First Amendment suggested that the Establishment Clause was never meant to prohibit legislative prayer, which created the proper deliberative mood and acknowledged religion's role in society. The content of this prayer does not need to be non-sectarian, because such a requirement would place the courts in the role of arbiters of religious speech, which would involve the government in religion to an extent that is impermissible under the Establishment Clause. The Court thus held that the prayers in question do not violate this tradition and are therefore acceptable under the First Amendment. Justice Kennedy further argued that legislative prayer is primarily for the members of the legislative body, and therefore such prayers do not coerce the public into religious observance.“

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2013/12-696

I think that decision was solid.

What, do you want 5 member town councils to spend thousands of dollars flying people in from distant locations to pray with them before their council meetings? Or perhaps you want a Satanist who really is an atheist with a fake name (Doug Mesner/Douglas Misicko) get up in front of everyone and ramble on about how nothing created everything? Hard pass.