Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting thread for me to read, as I am a 52 year old attorney in the process of applying for Teach for America as a midlife career changer. I have a few years of previous teaching experience, but at the university level while obtaining my MA in English and as an adjunct faculty after obtaining my JD.

I'm not ignorant of the crisis in schools. I've also done the reading on the pitfalls inherent in TFA, but since I have prior teaching experience and I'm a seasoned professional, I feel like I will cope better than folks who are doing it straight from a BA program without prior work experience.

Also, it is hard to imagine that the pressures of teaching while under-resourced could be any worse than the pressures of being a legal aid, public defense or prosecuting attorney with caseloads that far exceed ABA guidelines and practically zero peer support because everyone else is in the same boat. If I'm going to work under such stressful conditions, I would at least like to be doing it with the hope of impacting even just one child per year in a way that makes a difference in their lives.

I was just talking to a friend who is a medical professional and he was lamenting the same issues in the medical industry - under-staffed and under-resourced facilities that cannot meet the demand. Somehow profits are there for the administrators to have fat salaries. Seems like this is just how our world works these days.

Welcome, career changer! We can really use you! It seems like you have a good idea of what you’re walking toward, which is going to help you with the pressures of the first year teaching. You’re right: if you can meet ONE child, there’s something positive at the end of all this stress, pressure, and anxiety.

One more difference to prepare for: you won’t have time to yourself. You will be “on” and in front of people for the majority of your day. I’m an introvert by nature, yet I spend 36 hours a week directly interacting with 30+ young humans simultaneously. It’s 36 hours of presentations a week, essentially, which is emotionally and physically exhausting.

Gear up for that and give yourself a lot of grace. Some of them (many, at first) won’t go the way you expected them to go. That’s okay. Tweaking the lessons and how you present them will get you there. (And find some supportive teachers to lift you up. You’ll need it. We all do.)

I wish you the best of luck career changer. I hope you are okay in your new field. Take care of yourself.

Anonymous wrote:The difference is that if one of your clients became violent, you could call a security guard or the police to have them removed. If one of my students becomes violent, nobody comes. I’m told I am a bad teacher. I will finish up this year and you can take my place. I cannot work in a place where I do not feel safe. A student threw a spiral notebook at me a few weeks ago and the scratch on my face is still there. Nothing happened to that student but I was told not to place any demands on him. So he sleeps through a few classes and I hope to God nothing wakes him up again.

Hardly, lol. In legal aid I worked in tiny offices with zero support staff and no means to quickly access 911 - I could easily have been assaulted many times. As a public defender I often met my clients in their homes and was totally vulnerable to physical attack, and have in fact been assaulted more than once by adults much bigger and stronger than me. I also met clients in tiny rooms inside the jail or prison and no, there was not a guard standing right there waiting to intervene. It's a job that requires courage, to be sure.

I have also seen defense attorneys attacked in court by their clients, and you can too if you Google for the YouTube videos. Surrounded by armed deputies and in handcuffs, physically seriously assaulting their attorneys. At least most of the students in a typical classroom aren't already murderers and rapists.

People love to crap on defense attorneys, but they defend the Constitution and not really the individual - the individual is just the means to the end of defending liberty for all citizens. And it's a dangerous job. I was once stalked by a mentally ill client in a small rural town who had no trouble finding out where I lived. Thank goodness the police cared about me even though I was a defense attorney, and made sure to inform me of the activity that was occuring unbeknownst to me - and I was able to withdraw from representing that individual but still had to be very careful until he was incarcerated a long way away from where I lived.

I'm concerned about the physical violence that is occurring in schools, to be sure. It's one of the reasons I'm considering teaching at lower grade level than I might otherwise choose, although even grade schoolers can be combative and we all saw the six year old who shot his teacher. But I'm in a very strong gun control state and also a state which has consistently ranked #1 in educational investment and outcomes for decades - but still has poor schools. My attitude is that if it's just too awful working with at risk kids, I'll fulfill my two year contract and then move to a nice school with UMC kids where this kind of issue is much less common.

Anonymous wrote:The difference is that if one of your clients became violent, you could call a security guard or the police to have them removed. If one of my students becomes violent, nobody comes. I’m told I am a bad teacher. I will finish up this year and you can take my place. I cannot work in a place where I do not feel safe. A student threw a spiral notebook at me a few weeks ago and the scratch on my face is still there. Nothing happened to that student but I was told not to place any demands on him. So he sleeps through a few classes and I hope to God nothing wakes him up again.

And the other difference is that lawyers aren't in the courtroom in front of a judge 30 hours a week. They get time to plan. Even when they complain that it's not enough, they get more time to plan that most teachers. My brother does corporate training, where he presents the same exact thing over and over again, using a scripted curriculum, to adults, none of whom are learning English and have IEPs, and he has a much higher ratio of planning time to instructional time than I do.

I've been hurt by students including a broken bone. That's not what makes me consider leaving. The thing that makes me consider leaving is that the workload is such that I can put in 80 hour weeks, and still feel like I am failing kids due to not having enough time. And failing kids is what I can't tolerate. But I'm a special educator, a position that has been hit particularly hard by this crisis.

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting thread for me to read, as I am a 52 year old attorney in the process of applying for Teach for America as a midlife career changer. I have a few years of previous teaching experience, but at the university level while obtaining my MA in English and as an adjunct faculty after obtaining my JD.

I'm not ignorant of the crisis in schools. I've also done the reading on the pitfalls inherent in TFA, but since I have prior teaching experience and I'm a seasoned professional, I feel like I will cope better than folks who are doing it straight from a BA program without prior work experience.

Also, it is hard to imagine that the pressures of teaching while under-resourced could be any worse than the pressures of being a legal aid, public defense or prosecuting attorney with caseloads that far exceed ABA guidelines and practically zero peer support because everyone else is in the same boat. If I'm going to work under such stressful conditions, I would at least like to be doing it with the hope of impacting even just one child per year in a way that makes a difference in their lives.

I was just talking to a friend who is a medical professional and he was lamenting the same issues in the medical industry - under-staffed and under-resourced facilities that cannot meet the demand. Somehow profits are there for the administrators to have fat salaries. Seems like this is just how our world works these days.

Welcome, career changer! We can really use you! It seems like you have a good idea of what you’re walking toward, which is going to help you with the pressures of the first year teaching. You’re right: if you can meet ONE child, there’s something positive at the end of all this stress, pressure, and anxiety.

One more difference to prepare for: you won’t have time to yourself. You will be “on” and in front of people for the majority of your day. I’m an introvert by nature, yet I spend 36 hours a week directly interacting with 30+ young humans simultaneously. It’s 36 hours of presentations a week, essentially, which is emotionally and physically exhausting.

Gear up for that and give yourself a lot of grace. Some of them (many, at first) won’t go the way you expected them to go. That’s okay. Tweaking the lessons and how you present them will get you there. (And find some supportive teachers to lift you up. You’ll need it. We all do.)

Anonymous wrote:The difference is that if one of your clients became violent, you could call a security guard or the police to have them removed. If one of my students becomes violent, nobody comes. I’m told I am a bad teacher. I will finish up this year and you can take my place. I cannot work in a place where I do not feel safe. A student threw a spiral notebook at me a few weeks ago and the scratch on my face is still there. Nothing happened to that student but I was told not to place any demands on him. So he sleeps through a few classes and I hope to God nothing wakes him up again.

DP. Violence is a valid reason to leave and a major problem that needs to be fixed. But that's only one of the complaints we hear from teachers, and not even the most common.

By the way, I think that the inability of teachers (and maybe administrators) to discipline students hurts teachers in many ways. First, there is the stress of managing fear for your own safety on a daily basis. That threat of violence also diminishes your ability to manage a classroom and demand respect from students (to teachers and each other). From a parental perspective, the lack of consequences for the bad actors erodes faith in the system and can encourage overinvolvement and micromanaging. I've been in this situation, especially with one of my kids who has special needs and might be described as "difficult." How do you teach kids that it's important to do their work, be respectful, and behave in class when there are clearly no consequences if you don't? I can tell my kid until I'm blue in the face that he needs to turn work in on time and respect his teachers, but when he sees that other kids can get away with assaulting classmates and threatening teachers, it's not very motivating. My kid gets a zero for not doing his work, which I make a big deal out of, but when he gets pushed to the ground intentionally and kicked during recess, his abuser is right back in school the next day doing it to another kid. How do we expect kids to make sense of that world?

The difference is that if one of your clients became violent, you could call a security guard or the police to have them removed. If one of my students becomes violent, nobody comes. I’m told I am a bad teacher. I will finish up this year and you can take my place. I cannot work in a place where I do not feel safe. A student threw a spiral notebook at me a few weeks ago and the scratch on my face is still there. Nothing happened to that student but I was told not to place any demands on him. So he sleeps through a few classes and I hope to God nothing wakes him up again.

This is an interesting thread for me to read, as I am a 52 year old attorney in the process of applying for Teach for America as a midlife career changer. I have a few years of previous teaching experience, but at the university level while obtaining my MA in English and as an adjunct faculty after obtaining my JD.

I'm not ignorant of the crisis in schools. I've also done the reading on the pitfalls inherent in TFA, but since I have prior teaching experience and I'm a seasoned professional, I feel like I will cope better than folks who are doing it straight from a BA program without prior work experience.

Also, it is hard to imagine that the pressures of teaching while under-resourced could be any worse than the pressures of being a legal aid, public defense or prosecuting attorney with caseloads that far exceed ABA guidelines and practically zero peer support because everyone else is in the same boat. If I'm going to work under such stressful conditions, I would at least like to be doing it with the hope of impacting even just one child per year in a way that makes a difference in their lives.

I was just talking to a friend who is a medical professional and he was lamenting the same issues in the medical industry - under-staffed and under-resourced facilities that cannot meet the demand. Somehow profits are there for the administrators to have fat salaries. Seems like this is just how our world works these days.

The only people who know why teachers are leaving the profession are teachers.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in a classroom as a specialist and I think teachers are so burnt out that they don’t think clearly. They waste a lot of time not using human and technological resources such as coteachers who are constantly in and out of their rooms (and end up, sitting on their asses observing all the time because the teachers want to have control). They spend their planning periods complaining about how hard they have it. They waste a ton of time on trying to keep kids quiet instead of working with how they are naturally wired.

Huh.
I get 38 minutes of planning a day (and that includes my lunch time). I don’t have time to complain or even TALK to another adult.

Co-teachers? What are those? I have 150 students, over 40 with IEPs or 504s. I haven’t seen another adult even check on them. I’m responsible for all that paperwork on my own.

Keeping kids quiet? That’s kind of necessary every now and then. I am responsible for delivering content, after all. And those activities that appreciate how kids are wired? I do those… and they take huge chunks of my weekends to plan.

If you understand this SO MUCH BETTER than a classroom teacher, then step up and take over a classroom. We need you to show us how it’s done.

Not a teacher. But I do have kids in public middle school. The days of teachers standing in front of class and actually teaching the entire hour are gone. Much of the time the kids are told to do canned online programs like Lexia, IXL, or blooket for the class period. Or they have a short lesson then are told to do those time filler programs. So I just don’t get how teachers are so busy with all this “planning.” Maybe plan a real lesson while the kids sit on IXL for an hour?

I’m the PP and a high school teacher. I don’t use IXL or any other online program. I teach AP coursework and I’m responsible for developing my entire curriculum.

Do not assume anything based on your narrow view of what teachers do. (You are aware they have to examine that IXL data and course correct future lessons, correct?)

DCUM is certainly supporting this teacher shortage by providing a forum for comments like the one above.

I feel like I recognize your posts. I'm not sure you are actually a teacher. If you were, you would know that AP provides a huge bank of resources for teachers. And you can literally google any lesson plan, or use TpT or one of the packaged curriculums.

I teach AP classes too.

I’m actually a teacher. What I find online and on TPT is often subpar. It doesn’t fit the needs of my classroom. Even if I’m going to borrow someone else’s work, I’m still going to tailor it to my students’ needs. That’s what good teachers do. As for AP’s resources, of course I spend time tailoring those, as well.

And then I tweak it all the following year, because my students are always different.

If you are able to use a “one size fits all” approach in your classroom, then good for you. I spend a bit more time than that making sure my lessons hit home.

But you’re quitting at the end of the year right?

Do you really think it’s worth not seeing your family? So you can be 10% better than good enough?

I’m not okay with “good enough”. If I’m going to do a job, I’m going to do it correctly.

So yes, I’m quitting. I’d stay if the profession would change so students (and teachers) don’t have to settle for “good enough”. I want better for my students, my own children, and myself.

It can be done. Changing the profession to support teachers can be done. I view this exodus as a way of forcing it to happen. When those of us who want more than “good enough” (which isn’t really good at all within education) leave, then change may finally occur.

I know a lot of teachers including those who don't have kids and make the job their life. You are still an extreme outlier. Leaving like that will do nothing. I imagine your colleagues have the same impression of you that I do. You're doing it to yourself.

I'm all for changing teaching, however. But it's sad to see someone who is probably very good at it martyr themselves to the profession and then expect that to be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

DP

Wow, you have some nerve to tell someone how they should be doing their job and also to shame them for leaving because it's not what they want.

I thank the PP for being such an excellent teacher who goes above and beyond, and I'm sorry the school system doesn't support you.

One teacher quitting doesn't make a difference, but many teachers quitting just might.

I’m the teacher PP who is being called a martyr. Thank you for seeing the situation the way it really is.

I was accused above of doing this to myself. I am simply doing what I HAVE to do in order to do my job well. I can’t respect myself if I shortchange my students. Fortunately, I work at a school full of teachers who feel the same way. We work hard and we deliver results. We are also all burning out.

The PP above thinks one teacher quitting won’t make a difference, but it isn’t just me. I’m one of many leaving, and it WILL improve education when those of us who truly deliver are all gone. I hate that students will be left without strong teachers, but that’s going to happen anyway through burnout.

Again: thank you, PP, for the support. It doesn’t come that often on DCUM, and it’s refreshing!

PP, I'm a parent, but I completely understand where you are coming from. I work in the public sector, and have frequently encountered the same judgment when I have spoken up about impossible workloads. There should be less emphasis on individuals establishing boundaries in professional settings and more focus on how can we create work environments where committed professionals can do their jobs well without sacrificing their personal lives and performing uncompensated work during their nights and weekends. Thanks for what you do.

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are saying they are maxed out and leaving.
DCUM posters respond with the following:
1) In my area, teachers are paid very well and get lots of time off.
2) In my school, teachers don't post grades, put kids on computers all day, and leave at the bell.
3) Teachers are just complainers.

But here's the thing, even if all the DCUM arguments are true, it doesn't change the fact that teachers are leaving. Many, many, many teachers are leaving. Some are leaving mid-year. Positions are going unfilled. There are significantly fewer teacher ed programs in colleges and those that still exist are enrolling fewer students in the remaining programs. States are trying to fill the gaps with foreign hires and uncertified staff. This is a major problem for families and students and remaining staff and it is getting worse. Those are the facts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but it doesn't change facts.

You aren’t wrong. But by and large, teachers are leaving because of the uncontrollable behavior from kids they have to put up with and the inability to actually teach the material they work hard to prepare. Who wants to work a job where you are essentially verbally (sometimes physically ) abused and where there is no reward in terms of outcomes for the work you are doing.

If the kids in class listened well, behaved, did the things asked of them, enthusiastically learned- it would make all the difference. But parents has gone down the toilet. Blame govt, the funding, not enough “services” or whatever. Nope- it is a family structure and parenting problem.

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are saying they are maxed out and leaving.
DCUM posters respond with the following:
1) In my area, teachers are paid very well and get lots of time off.
2) In my school, teachers don't post grades, put kids on computers all day, and leave at the bell.
3) Teachers are just complainers.

But here's the thing, even if all the DCUM arguments are true, it doesn't change the fact that teachers are leaving. Many, many, many teachers are leaving. Some are leaving mid-year. Positions are going unfilled. There are significantly fewer teacher ed programs in colleges and those that still exist are enrolling fewer students in the remaining programs. States are trying to fill the gaps with foreign hires and uncertified staff. This is a major problem for families and students and remaining staff and it is getting worse. Those are the facts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but it doesn't change facts.

Yes, and they will continue to do so because the foreign workers don’t complain as much.

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are saying they are maxed out and leaving.
DCUM posters respond with the following:
1) In my area, teachers are paid very well and get lots of time off.
2) In my school, teachers don't post grades, put kids on computers all day, and leave at the bell.
3) Teachers are just complainers.

But here's the thing, even if all the DCUM arguments are true, it doesn't change the fact that teachers are leaving. Many, many, many teachers are leaving. Some are leaving mid-year. Positions are going unfilled. There are significantly fewer teacher ed programs in colleges and those that still exist are enrolling fewer students in the remaining programs. States are trying to fill the gaps with foreign hires and uncertified staff. This is a major problem for families and students and remaining staff and it is getting worse. Those are the facts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but it doesn't change facts.

Are teachers leaving big 3?

Don’t expect for a minute that the powers that be are going to reform education. They will use it as an excuse to automate even more. Soon robots will be teaching our children.

Teachers are saying they are maxed out and leaving.
DCUM posters respond with the following:
1) In my area, teachers are paid very well and get lots of time off.
2) In my school, teachers don't post grades, put kids on computers all day, and leave at the bell.
3) Teachers are just complainers.

But here's the thing, even if all the DCUM arguments are true, it doesn't change the fact that teachers are leaving. Many, many, many teachers are leaving. Some are leaving mid-year. Positions are going unfilled. There are significantly fewer teacher ed programs in colleges and those that still exist are enrolling fewer students in the remaining programs. States are trying to fill the gaps with foreign hires and uncertified staff. This is a major problem for families and students and remaining staff and it is getting worse. Those are the facts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but it doesn't change facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in a classroom as a specialist and I think teachers are so burnt out that they don’t think clearly. They waste a lot of time not using human and technological resources such as coteachers who are constantly in and out of their rooms (and end up, sitting on their asses observing all the time because the teachers want to have control). They spend their planning periods complaining about how hard they have it. They waste a ton of time on trying to keep kids quiet instead of working with how they are naturally wired.

Huh.
I get 38 minutes of planning a day (and that includes my lunch time). I don’t have time to complain or even TALK to another adult.

Co-teachers? What are those? I have 150 students, over 40 with IEPs or 504s. I haven’t seen another adult even check on them. I’m responsible for all that paperwork on my own.

Keeping kids quiet? That’s kind of necessary every now and then. I am responsible for delivering content, after all. And those activities that appreciate how kids are wired? I do those… and they take huge chunks of my weekends to plan.

If you understand this SO MUCH BETTER than a classroom teacher, then step up and take over a classroom. We need you to show us how it’s done.

Not a teacher. But I do have kids in public middle school. The days of teachers standing in front of class and actually teaching the entire hour are gone. Much of the time the kids are told to do canned online programs like Lexia, IXL, or blooket for the class period. Or they have a short lesson then are told to do those time filler programs. So I just don’t get how teachers are so busy with all this “planning.” Maybe plan a real lesson while the kids sit on IXL for an hour?

I’m the PP and a high school teacher. I don’t use IXL or any other online program. I teach AP coursework and I’m responsible for developing my entire curriculum.

Do not assume anything based on your narrow view of what teachers do. (You are aware they have to examine that IXL data and course correct future lessons, correct?)

DCUM is certainly supporting this teacher shortage by providing a forum for comments like the one above.

I feel like I recognize your posts. I'm not sure you are actually a teacher. If you were, you would know that AP provides a huge bank of resources for teachers. And you can literally google any lesson plan, or use TpT or one of the packaged curriculums.

I teach AP classes too.

I’m actually a teacher. What I find online and on TPT is often subpar. It doesn’t fit the needs of my classroom. Even if I’m going to borrow someone else’s work, I’m still going to tailor it to my students’ needs. That’s what good teachers do. As for AP’s resources, of course I spend time tailoring those, as well.

And then I tweak it all the following year, because my students are always different.

If you are able to use a “one size fits all” approach in your classroom, then good for you. I spend a bit more time than that making sure my lessons hit home.

But you’re quitting at the end of the year right?

Do you really think it’s worth not seeing your family? So you can be 10% better than good enough?

I’m not okay with “good enough”. If I’m going to do a job, I’m going to do it correctly.

So yes, I’m quitting. I’d stay if the profession would change so students (and teachers) don’t have to settle for “good enough”. I want better for my students, my own children, and myself.

It can be done. Changing the profession to support teachers can be done. I view this exodus as a way of forcing it to happen. When those of us who want more than “good enough” (which isn’t really good at all within education) leave, then change may finally occur.

I know a lot of teachers including those who don't have kids and make the job their life. You are still an extreme outlier. Leaving like that will do nothing. I imagine your colleagues have the same impression of you that I do. You're doing it to yourself.

I'm all for changing teaching, however. But it's sad to see someone who is probably very good at it martyr themselves to the profession and then expect that to be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

DP

Wow, you have some nerve to tell someone how they should be doing their job and also to shame them for leaving because it's not what they want.

I thank the PP for being such an excellent teacher who goes above and beyond, and I'm sorry the school system doesn't support you.

One teacher quitting doesn't make a difference, but many teachers quitting just might.

I’m the teacher PP who is being called a martyr. Thank you for seeing the situation the way it really is.

I was accused above of doing this to myself. I am simply doing what I HAVE to do in order to do my job well. I can’t respect myself if I shortchange my students. Fortunately, I work at a school full of teachers who feel the same way. We work hard and we deliver results. We are also all burning out.

The PP above thinks one teacher quitting won’t make a difference, but it isn’t just me. I’m one of many leaving, and it WILL improve education when those of us who truly deliver are all gone. I hate that students will be left without strong teachers, but that’s going to happen anyway through burnout.

Again: thank you, PP, for the support. It doesn’t come that often on DCUM, and it’s refreshing!