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Anonymous wrote:Op here. These are all helpful perspectives. I make about 230 and he makes about 160. He is open to somewhere near a cool town/small city like Burlington VT.

I understand you love your job, but have you looked at how far 160k will go in Vermont?

As a PP said (I paraphrase): DC absolutely sucks for people who aren’t originally from the area. You can deal with it for awhile because it does have a few perks, but eventually it is kind of a soul crushing place to live (and raise your kids) when you know from experience that a different lifestyle is out there…

the idea that OP should give up her well-paying, flexible job that she loves so her WFH husband can move to a rural area is just bonkers. Wrong on every level.

also the DC area is not “soul crushing.” we have access to lots of outdoor activities. if her DH isn’t getting out that is his fault. he’s blaming his malaise on DC (and now setting up a scenario where he gets to blame OP). he’s not 20. he needs to take responsibility for himself.

+1 so tired of these DMV haters. I didn’t grow up here but I love the DMV. Great food, lots of diversity, smart and ambitious people, mountains and ocean within a fairly reasonable drive, and four seasons. This is a fabulous area for runners too.

Sorry, I guess the DMV area can be okay if you are fabulously wealthy, enjoy being in your car for significant chunks of your day, and are hyper competitive in all aspects of your life. Oh, and also enjoy swamp like weather in the summer, cold gray winters, and the most sprawling development as far as the eye can see.

For everyone else it’s just one step up from a hell hole.

You just sound like a very negative person who would be unhappy anywhere.

I AM actually a generally negative person, but we moved out of the DMV and I have never been happier.

I am really glad so many of you enjoy that lifestyle, but for many of us it is truly awful. For example, the “fun places to hike and bike” generally necessitate that you first DRIVE to those places (unless as mentioned before you are wealthy enough to live in one of the genuinely walkable safe areas, which obviously most people are not). Some of us don’t want to commute to our leisure activities as well as our jobs.

Again, good for you if you like the DMV. A lot of people hate it for very good reason, and it sounds like OP’s husband is one of them, so taking the attitude that he is obligated to just suck it up and spend the next couple decades of his life in an area that makes him miserable is completely unfair.

Luckily it sounds like OP is far more reasonable than most of the DMV apologists on this thread, so they might have a chance.

Most of the people I know who live in rural/vacation areas drive a lot. And I’m sorry, if you have a burning need to live right on a lake or the beach, you should not have put down roots in a city and shaped your life around that.

Life is long, my friend. Feelings change. Circumstances change. Have you never tried anything thinking you’d enjoy it and then realized that you didn’t? Have you ever genuinely enjoyed something for awhile, but then slowly stopped enjoying it?

Because his wife has a job she loves in DC, that means he has to stay here forever no matter how much he hates it? There is absolutely no room for compromise because he decided to live in this area however many years ago?

This is rigid thinking and I suspect it is coming from a place of deep anxiety. The same kind of anxious thinking that would lead someone to think that 160K “doesn’t go far anywhere” as one PP said. And while the husband says he wants rural, there are of course many options in between city/suburb and completely rural that could potentially satisfy both of them (small town in a nice location, maybe?)

Yes, to all of this. The people who are adamant that this guy should just "suck it up" for the next 10-15 years either have marriage issues or are overly defensive of the DMV. OP doesn't even feel that way and she's the one who would actually have to move.

It is incredibly hard to live in a place where you just don't feel happy or like you belong. I have felt that way in the DMV for about a decade, and it's really hard. My DH very much wants to stay but we have finally started talking about leaving and trying to find a compromise elsewhere that meets both our needs, because it's just incredibly hard on my mental health to be somewhere that doesn't feel good to me. That doesn't mean this is a bad place. It means it's not right for me.

There is sometimes an attitude here (you find it in NY too) that if you don't like some aspect of the DMV, the problem is YOU. But come on. One of the biggest things I struggle with here is the weather. I come from a dry climate with real winters. I actually like rain and inclement weather, but before I moved here I had no idea that "hot rain" was a thing, having never lived in a very humid or tropical environment. This is not a knock on people who live here and love it -- I think many of you are just more acclimated to this weather and maybe have bodies that deal better with it? I am uncomfortable much of the year and then get depressed in the winter when it's just gray and bleak but there is no snow. Every year, year after year.

There are other things about the area that are hard for me. But like the weather, that doesn't mean I'm saying this is a horrible area for everyone. I'm not Type A, I'm not career driven, I struggle with people who have "sharp elbows" and that stuff is part of the culture here. That's fine if that's you, but it's hard to live and work among it for decades when it's very much not you. I think I need to be in the Upper Midwest or New England. This is just not my place.

Thankfully my DH doesn't think these feelings are unreasonable, and even though he's pretty tied to this area for work, we are starting to work on a plan to move in the next 6 years or so, because while there are good things about his job, it is not worth me being miserable for decades.

You’re going to be miserable wherever you go. People with a capacity for happiness adapt and make the best of things. DC is not some hellish sh-hole. It’s hot and the mosquitoes suck. But insisting you will be miserable here for DECADES due solely to DC … well that’s about your mental health, not DC.

It would be one thing if a move is fairly low-risk and the other spouse isn’t missing much. But that’s not what OP describes.

That's not fair. We left DC because I was so miserable with the weather, and my husband was just miserable, and we are actually much happier in our new place. It's not even new anymore = we've been here for almost 9 years. It just suits us better, day to day. And it's certainly, CERTAINLY not without its own issues - but, yes, we are happier. We're just lucky that we were on the same page about wanting to move, and on the same page about where we wanted to move to - and were both able to move with remote jobs we could take with us. Being aligned like that makes it much less of a hard choice! I just don't know how you do this if only one person wants to go, one person really wants to stay - and also that person can't take a job they love with them. I don't know if there is a good option, basically!

I will say - if we were staying in DC, we'd considered moving to Fredericksburg, because it seemed smaller and more relaxed, and closer to a lot of nature. It's not Vermont, but it might be worth looking at. Or Harper's Ferry.

Good luck, OP - this sounds hard, and I think it's really good of you to even consider this move.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. These are all helpful perspectives. I make about 230 and he makes about 160. He is open to somewhere near a cool town/small city like Burlington VT.

I understand you love your job, but have you looked at how far 160k will go in Vermont?

As a PP said (I paraphrase): DC absolutely sucks for people who aren’t originally from the area. You can deal with it for awhile because it does have a few perks, but eventually it is kind of a soul crushing place to live (and raise your kids) when you know from experience that a different lifestyle is out there…

the idea that OP should give up her well-paying, flexible job that she loves so her WFH husband can move to a rural area is just bonkers. Wrong on every level.

also the DC area is not “soul crushing.” we have access to lots of outdoor activities. if her DH isn’t getting out that is his fault. he’s blaming his malaise on DC (and now setting up a scenario where he gets to blame OP). he’s not 20. he needs to take responsibility for himself.

+1 so tired of these DMV haters. I didn’t grow up here but I love the DMV. Great food, lots of diversity, smart and ambitious people, mountains and ocean within a fairly reasonable drive, and four seasons. This is a fabulous area for runners too.

Sorry, I guess the DMV area can be okay if you are fabulously wealthy, enjoy being in your car for significant chunks of your day, and are hyper competitive in all aspects of your life. Oh, and also enjoy swamp like weather in the summer, cold gray winters, and the most sprawling development as far as the eye can see.

For everyone else it’s just one step up from a hell hole.

You just sound like a very negative person who would be unhappy anywhere.

I AM actually a generally negative person, but we moved out of the DMV and I have never been happier.

I am really glad so many of you enjoy that lifestyle, but for many of us it is truly awful. For example, the “fun places to hike and bike” generally necessitate that you first DRIVE to those places (unless as mentioned before you are wealthy enough to live in one of the genuinely walkable safe areas, which obviously most people are not). Some of us don’t want to commute to our leisure activities as well as our jobs.

Again, good for you if you like the DMV. A lot of people hate it for very good reason, and it sounds like OP’s husband is one of them, so taking the attitude that he is obligated to just suck it up and spend the next couple decades of his life in an area that makes him miserable is completely unfair.

Luckily it sounds like OP is far more reasonable than most of the DMV apologists on this thread, so they might have a chance.

Most of the people I know who live in rural/vacation areas drive a lot. And I’m sorry, if you have a burning need to live right on a lake or the beach, you should not have put down roots in a city and shaped your life around that.

Life is long, my friend. Feelings change. Circumstances change. Have you never tried anything thinking you’d enjoy it and then realized that you didn’t? Have you ever genuinely enjoyed something for awhile, but then slowly stopped enjoying it?

Because his wife has a job she loves in DC, that means he has to stay here forever no matter how much he hates it? There is absolutely no room for compromise because he decided to live in this area however many years ago?

This is rigid thinking and I suspect it is coming from a place of deep anxiety. The same kind of anxious thinking that would lead someone to think that 160K “doesn’t go far anywhere” as one PP said. And while the husband says he wants rural, there are of course many options in between city/suburb and completely rural that could potentially satisfy both of them (small town in a nice location, maybe?)

Yes, to all of this. The people who are adamant that this guy should just "suck it up" for the next 10-15 years either have marriage issues or are overly defensive of the DMV. OP doesn't even feel that way and she's the one who would actually have to move.

It is incredibly hard to live in a place where you just don't feel happy or like you belong. I have felt that way in the DMV for about a decade, and it's really hard. My DH very much wants to stay but we have finally started talking about leaving and trying to find a compromise elsewhere that meets both our needs, because it's just incredibly hard on my mental health to be somewhere that doesn't feel good to me. That doesn't mean this is a bad place. It means it's not right for me.

There is sometimes an attitude here (you find it in NY too) that if you don't like some aspect of the DMV, the problem is YOU. But come on. One of the biggest things I struggle with here is the weather. I come from a dry climate with real winters. I actually like rain and inclement weather, but before I moved here I had no idea that "hot rain" was a thing, having never lived in a very humid or tropical environment. This is not a knock on people who live here and love it -- I think many of you are just more acclimated to this weather and maybe have bodies that deal better with it? I am uncomfortable much of the year and then get depressed in the winter when it's just gray and bleak but there is no snow. Every year, year after year.

There are other things about the area that are hard for me. But like the weather, that doesn't mean I'm saying this is a horrible area for everyone. I'm not Type A, I'm not career driven, I struggle with people who have "sharp elbows" and that stuff is part of the culture here. That's fine if that's you, but it's hard to live and work among it for decades when it's very much not you. I think I need to be in the Upper Midwest or New England. This is just not my place.

Thankfully my DH doesn't think these feelings are unreasonable, and even though he's pretty tied to this area for work, we are starting to work on a plan to move in the next 6 years or so, because while there are good things about his job, it is not worth me being miserable for decades.

The problem with both your post and the PPs is that OP's husband doesn't want to compromise - she suggested moving to the suburbs or an exurb and that wasn't enough. She suggested buying a property in his desired area and spending a month there in the summer as well as other time, and he said nope. The only thing that will make him happy is leaving the DMV and her leaving her career behind. That's not compromise.

Those aren't the only compromises though. If they've been in the DMV a long time, moving to an exurb or vacationing more in a rural place may not really address her DH's issues. My sense is that it's not just that he wants to be in a rural place. It's that he does not like the culture here and doesn't feel he belongs here. You don't solve that by moving further out.

One compromise would be to put an end date on the DMV that is less than "15 years from now." Like make that more like 6 years, if there's a way to make that work career wise and with schools (say you stay until kids are done with elementary). That way OP would get 6 years in this job she loves in the place she wants to be, but her DH has an end date at which point it's his turn and his wife makes some sacrifices for his happiness. A compromise like that also gives them both time to prepare and make plans. He can create more concrete plans about how this will work financially if his wife takes a paycut. She would have time to think about a career shift that takes them out of the area but is still fulfilling. They can think about schools and cost of living and explore.

The idea that the ONLY compromise is one that means they continue to live in the DMV for the next 15 years is not fair to what the DH is actually saying, which is that he doesn't feel good here. That should be taken seriously. It matters as much as the fact that OP finds her job very fulfilling. They both matter. I don't think it would be fair for her to leave her job tomorrow just to make DH happy. But I also don't think "we stay here but we're in Front Royal!" is the compromise you seem to think it is. It's just lipstick on a pig, from his perspective (to borrow a phrase from my rural relatives).

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Anonymous wrote:I'm in my mid 50s. Boy, that went fast. By "that", I mean my 20s, 30s, 40s. In the blink of an eye they were over, gone. You get into your 50s and start looking back on where you could have squeezed more enjoyment out of life. How you were so afraid to change, because of how it would look to other people instead of how it would make you feel. How you were afraid to take that chance that one time (such as relocating) that would have been a fork in the road that took you to something better. You can't see it now, but you will.

I would move and try something new.

Alternatively, OP will hit her mid-50s stuck in a low-paying rural job she dislikes, without enough savings for looming retirement and college tuition, and facing aging in a rural locality her children will not want to visit.

Did the OP say that she looked at jobs and could only find low paying unlike-able jobs? I mean, there are good jobs in small towns. Has she even looked?

Highly unlikely the job is anything like what OP has now. There’s a reason people leave rural areas to move to cities like DC for work.

Sure. When you are just out of school, you need a mentor to teach you how to do your job, and you want to be part of an entire infrastructure.
But once you are in your forties, you can kind of do what you want (unless you are in a field that needs a big infrastructure no matter what (ie. Transplant surgeon)).

I’m not sure what planet you are living on. Sure I have enough experience in my 40s to find another job, but you can’t just snap your fingers and get an equivalent job anywhere that replaces my very DC job.

But you can start a business, right? If your spouse agrees to be the sole wage earner for a while and is willing to live anywhere in the country that you want to live as long as it’s not a huge city?
There is really no way that you could possibly find any meaningful work in that situation? I mean, I get it if you are highly trained to do something specific that requires a big infrastructure, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on with OP. I think she is mostly very anxious.

Let’s all just snap our fingers and start a business that will make $230,000 right off the bat. I wonder why no one thought of this before!

Too right! LOL :lol:

Pp here. It’s not really that crazy. I’ve done it. Both my parents did it. My brother did it. People with professional degrees start small businesses making $200k/ yr all of the time.

No, they don’t. And maybe OP doesn’t want to? Why would I want to give up my colleagues and pension to start a business?

Also you don't just "start a business" - are you thinking, like, a retail business? Selling... hot sauce? A cleaning company? A digital marketing firm? A small law practice? Any kind of business = success and happiness? This sounds like a Lifetime movie, not an actual plan.

I have no idea what OP does. I’m guessing that she doesn’t sell hot sauce for a living. I started a small medical practice. My mom did medical writing. My brother has a small law practice. It’s not hard to make $200k at these things.

And no, not necessarily “success and happiness.” Just not “miserable” as the pp asserted.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. These are all helpful perspectives. I make about 230 and he makes about 160. He is open to somewhere near a cool town/small city like Burlington VT.

I understand you love your job, but have you looked at how far 160k will go in Vermont?

As a PP said (I paraphrase): DC absolutely sucks for people who aren’t originally from the area. You can deal with it for awhile because it does have a few perks, but eventually it is kind of a soul crushing place to live (and raise your kids) when you know from experience that a different lifestyle is out there…

the idea that OP should give up her well-paying, flexible job that she loves so her WFH husband can move to a rural area is just bonkers. Wrong on every level.

also the DC area is not “soul crushing.” we have access to lots of outdoor activities. if her DH isn’t getting out that is his fault. he’s blaming his malaise on DC (and now setting up a scenario where he gets to blame OP). he’s not 20. he needs to take responsibility for himself.

+1 so tired of these DMV haters. I didn’t grow up here but I love the DMV. Great food, lots of diversity, smart and ambitious people, mountains and ocean within a fairly reasonable drive, and four seasons. This is a fabulous area for runners too.

Sorry, I guess the DMV area can be okay if you are fabulously wealthy, enjoy being in your car for significant chunks of your day, and are hyper competitive in all aspects of your life. Oh, and also enjoy swamp like weather in the summer, cold gray winters, and the most sprawling development as far as the eye can see.

For everyone else it’s just one step up from a hell hole.

You just sound like a very negative person who would be unhappy anywhere.

I AM actually a generally negative person, but we moved out of the DMV and I have never been happier.

I am really glad so many of you enjoy that lifestyle, but for many of us it is truly awful. For example, the “fun places to hike and bike” generally necessitate that you first DRIVE to those places (unless as mentioned before you are wealthy enough to live in one of the genuinely walkable safe areas, which obviously most people are not). Some of us don’t want to commute to our leisure activities as well as our jobs.

Again, good for you if you like the DMV. A lot of people hate it for very good reason, and it sounds like OP’s husband is one of them, so taking the attitude that he is obligated to just suck it up and spend the next couple decades of his life in an area that makes him miserable is completely unfair.

Luckily it sounds like OP is far more reasonable than most of the DMV apologists on this thread, so they might have a chance.

Most of the people I know who live in rural/vacation areas drive a lot. And I’m sorry, if you have a burning need to live right on a lake or the beach, you should not have put down roots in a city and shaped your life around that.

Life is long, my friend. Feelings change. Circumstances change. Have you never tried anything thinking you’d enjoy it and then realized that you didn’t? Have you ever genuinely enjoyed something for awhile, but then slowly stopped enjoying it?

Because his wife has a job she loves in DC, that means he has to stay here forever no matter how much he hates it? There is absolutely no room for compromise because he decided to live in this area however many years ago?

This is rigid thinking and I suspect it is coming from a place of deep anxiety. The same kind of anxious thinking that would lead someone to think that 160K “doesn’t go far anywhere” as one PP said. And while the husband says he wants rural, there are of course many options in between city/suburb and completely rural that could potentially satisfy both of them (small town in a nice location, maybe?)

Yes, to all of this. The people who are adamant that this guy should just "suck it up" for the next 10-15 years either have marriage issues or are overly defensive of the DMV. OP doesn't even feel that way and she's the one who would actually have to move.

It is incredibly hard to live in a place where you just don't feel happy or like you belong. I have felt that way in the DMV for about a decade, and it's really hard. My DH very much wants to stay but we have finally started talking about leaving and trying to find a compromise elsewhere that meets both our needs, because it's just incredibly hard on my mental health to be somewhere that doesn't feel good to me. That doesn't mean this is a bad place. It means it's not right for me.

There is sometimes an attitude here (you find it in NY too) that if you don't like some aspect of the DMV, the problem is YOU. But come on. One of the biggest things I struggle with here is the weather. I come from a dry climate with real winters. I actually like rain and inclement weather, but before I moved here I had no idea that "hot rain" was a thing, having never lived in a very humid or tropical environment. This is not a knock on people who live here and love it -- I think many of you are just more acclimated to this weather and maybe have bodies that deal better with it? I am uncomfortable much of the year and then get depressed in the winter when it's just gray and bleak but there is no snow. Every year, year after year.

There are other things about the area that are hard for me. But like the weather, that doesn't mean I'm saying this is a horrible area for everyone. I'm not Type A, I'm not career driven, I struggle with people who have "sharp elbows" and that stuff is part of the culture here. That's fine if that's you, but it's hard to live and work among it for decades when it's very much not you. I think I need to be in the Upper Midwest or New England. This is just not my place.

Thankfully my DH doesn't think these feelings are unreasonable, and even though he's pretty tied to this area for work, we are starting to work on a plan to move in the next 6 years or so, because while there are good things about his job, it is not worth me being miserable for decades.

You’re going to be miserable wherever you go. People with a capacity for happiness adapt and make the best of things. DC is not some hellish sh-hole. It’s hot and the mosquitoes suck. But insisting you will be miserable here for DECADES due solely to DC … well that’s about your mental health, not DC.

It would be one thing if a move is fairly low-risk and the other spouse isn’t missing much. But that’s not what OP describes.

I agree with this. I would much, much rather live in upstate NY, western MA, or VT than DC. No contest. My spouse would too. But we don't think that's worth the cost to our school-aged kids of uprooting, or giving up one career (because it's HARD to find two specialized jobs in a rural area - thats why we are still own) and taking a 50%+ pay cut. So we are trying to bloom where we're planted, even without the amazing opportunity of a month away every summer. We can't all maximize all areas of personal happiness when we're part of a family unit. That's marriage and parenting. It doesn't make life DIRE.

So what you are saying is that if you moved to one of those other places, you would like the setting more but you'd be unhappy because of the pay cut, not being able to do your ideal job, and moving your kids. Okay.

Some people are unhappy in the DMV because of the cost of living, disliking the work culture here, and having their kids in a highly competitive environment that is not what they want for their kids. I think these people would be happier somewhere else.

But you've create this self-justifying fiction where if someone isn't happy in the DMV, it's just because they are naturally unhappy people. Come on.

Someone who blames ALL their problems on where they live is not being honest with themselves. I’m still curious if the DH who professess to love the outdoors so much even tries to take advantage of the opportunities here? I know people who really do live for travel or sailing or whatever, but they make it part of their lives wherever they are.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm in my mid 50s. Boy, that went fast. By "that", I mean my 20s, 30s, 40s. In the blink of an eye they were over, gone. You get into your 50s and start looking back on where you could have squeezed more enjoyment out of life. How you were so afraid to change, because of how it would look to other people instead of how it would make you feel. How you were afraid to take that chance that one time (such as relocating) that would have been a fork in the road that took you to something better. You can't see it now, but you will.

I would move and try something new.

Alternatively, OP will hit her mid-50s stuck in a low-paying rural job she dislikes, without enough savings for looming retirement and college tuition, and facing aging in a rural locality her children will not want to visit.

Did the OP say that she looked at jobs and could only find low paying unlike-able jobs? I mean, there are good jobs in small towns. Has she even looked?

Highly unlikely the job is anything like what OP has now. There’s a reason people leave rural areas to move to cities like DC for work.

Sure. When you are just out of school, you need a mentor to teach you how to do your job, and you want to be part of an entire infrastructure.
But once you are in your forties, you can kind of do what you want (unless you are in a field that needs a big infrastructure no matter what (ie. Transplant surgeon)).

I’m not sure what planet you are living on. Sure I have enough experience in my 40s to find another job, but you can’t just snap your fingers and get an equivalent job anywhere that replaces my very DC job.

But you can start a business, right? If your spouse agrees to be the sole wage earner for a while and is willing to live anywhere in the country that you want to live as long as it’s not a huge city?
There is really no way that you could possibly find any meaningful work in that situation? I mean, I get it if you are highly trained to do something specific that requires a big infrastructure, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on with OP. I think she is mostly very anxious.

Let’s all just snap our fingers and start a business that will make $230,000 right off the bat. I wonder why no one thought of this before!

Too right! LOL :lol:

Pp here. It’s not really that crazy. I’ve done it. Both my parents did it. My brother did it. People with professional degrees start small businesses making $200k/ yr all of the time.

No, they don’t. And maybe OP doesn’t want to? Why would I want to give up my colleagues and pension to start a business?

Also you don't just "start a business" - are you thinking, like, a retail business? Selling... hot sauce? A cleaning company? A digital marketing firm? A small law practice? Any kind of business = success and happiness? This sounds like a Lifetime movie, not an actual plan.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm in my mid 50s. Boy, that went fast. By "that", I mean my 20s, 30s, 40s. In the blink of an eye they were over, gone. You get into your 50s and start looking back on where you could have squeezed more enjoyment out of life. How you were so afraid to change, because of how it would look to other people instead of how it would make you feel. How you were afraid to take that chance that one time (such as relocating) that would have been a fork in the road that took you to something better. You can't see it now, but you will.

I would move and try something new.

Alternatively, OP will hit her mid-50s stuck in a low-paying rural job she dislikes, without enough savings for looming retirement and college tuition, and facing aging in a rural locality her children will not want to visit.

Did the OP say that she looked at jobs and could only find low paying unlike-able jobs? I mean, there are good jobs in small towns. Has she even looked?

Highly unlikely the job is anything like what OP has now. There’s a reason people leave rural areas to move to cities like DC for work.

Sure. When you are just out of school, you need a mentor to teach you how to do your job, and you want to be part of an entire infrastructure.
But once you are in your forties, you can kind of do what you want (unless you are in a field that needs a big infrastructure no matter what (ie. Transplant surgeon)).

I’m not sure what planet you are living on. Sure I have enough experience in my 40s to find another job, but you can’t just snap your fingers and get an equivalent job anywhere that replaces my very DC job.

But you can start a business, right? If your spouse agrees to be the sole wage earner for a while and is willing to live anywhere in the country that you want to live as long as it’s not a huge city?
There is really no way that you could possibly find any meaningful work in that situation? I mean, I get it if you are highly trained to do something specific that requires a big infrastructure, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on with OP. I think she is mostly very anxious.

Let’s all just snap our fingers and start a business that will make $230,000 right off the bat. I wonder why no one thought of this before!

Too right! LOL :lol:

Pp here. It’s not really that crazy. I’ve done it. Both my parents did it. My brother did it. People with professional degrees start small businesses making $200k/ yr all of the time.

No, they don’t. And maybe OP doesn’t want to? Why would I want to give up my colleagues and pension to start a business?

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. These are all helpful perspectives. I make about 230 and he makes about 160. He is open to somewhere near a cool town/small city like Burlington VT.

I understand you love your job, but have you looked at how far 160k will go in Vermont?

As a PP said (I paraphrase): DC absolutely sucks for people who aren’t originally from the area. You can deal with it for awhile because it does have a few perks, but eventually it is kind of a soul crushing place to live (and raise your kids) when you know from experience that a different lifestyle is out there…

the idea that OP should give up her well-paying, flexible job that she loves so her WFH husband can move to a rural area is just bonkers. Wrong on every level.

also the DC area is not “soul crushing.” we have access to lots of outdoor activities. if her DH isn’t getting out that is his fault. he’s blaming his malaise on DC (and now setting up a scenario where he gets to blame OP). he’s not 20. he needs to take responsibility for himself.

+1 so tired of these DMV haters. I didn’t grow up here but I love the DMV. Great food, lots of diversity, smart and ambitious people, mountains and ocean within a fairly reasonable drive, and four seasons. This is a fabulous area for runners too.

Sorry, I guess the DMV area can be okay if you are fabulously wealthy, enjoy being in your car for significant chunks of your day, and are hyper competitive in all aspects of your life. Oh, and also enjoy swamp like weather in the summer, cold gray winters, and the most sprawling development as far as the eye can see.

For everyone else it’s just one step up from a hell hole.

You just sound like a very negative person who would be unhappy anywhere.

I AM actually a generally negative person, but we moved out of the DMV and I have never been happier.

I am really glad so many of you enjoy that lifestyle, but for many of us it is truly awful. For example, the “fun places to hike and bike” generally necessitate that you first DRIVE to those places (unless as mentioned before you are wealthy enough to live in one of the genuinely walkable safe areas, which obviously most people are not). Some of us don’t want to commute to our leisure activities as well as our jobs.

Again, good for you if you like the DMV. A lot of people hate it for very good reason, and it sounds like OP’s husband is one of them, so taking the attitude that he is obligated to just suck it up and spend the next couple decades of his life in an area that makes him miserable is completely unfair.

Luckily it sounds like OP is far more reasonable than most of the DMV apologists on this thread, so they might have a chance.

Most of the people I know who live in rural/vacation areas drive a lot. And I’m sorry, if you have a burning need to live right on a lake or the beach, you should not have put down roots in a city and shaped your life around that.

Life is long, my friend. Feelings change. Circumstances change. Have you never tried anything thinking you’d enjoy it and then realized that you didn’t? Have you ever genuinely enjoyed something for awhile, but then slowly stopped enjoying it?

Because his wife has a job she loves in DC, that means he has to stay here forever no matter how much he hates it? There is absolutely no room for compromise because he decided to live in this area however many years ago?

This is rigid thinking and I suspect it is coming from a place of deep anxiety. The same kind of anxious thinking that would lead someone to think that 160K “doesn’t go far anywhere” as one PP said. And while the husband says he wants rural, there are of course many options in between city/suburb and completely rural that could potentially satisfy both of them (small town in a nice location, maybe?)

Yes, to all of this. The people who are adamant that this guy should just "suck it up" for the next 10-15 years either have marriage issues or are overly defensive of the DMV. OP doesn't even feel that way and she's the one who would actually have to move.

It is incredibly hard to live in a place where you just don't feel happy or like you belong. I have felt that way in the DMV for about a decade, and it's really hard. My DH very much wants to stay but we have finally started talking about leaving and trying to find a compromise elsewhere that meets both our needs, because it's just incredibly hard on my mental health to be somewhere that doesn't feel good to me. That doesn't mean this is a bad place. It means it's not right for me.

There is sometimes an attitude here (you find it in NY too) that if you don't like some aspect of the DMV, the problem is YOU. But come on. One of the biggest things I struggle with here is the weather. I come from a dry climate with real winters. I actually like rain and inclement weather, but before I moved here I had no idea that "hot rain" was a thing, having never lived in a very humid or tropical environment. This is not a knock on people who live here and love it -- I think many of you are just more acclimated to this weather and maybe have bodies that deal better with it? I am uncomfortable much of the year and then get depressed in the winter when it's just gray and bleak but there is no snow. Every year, year after year.

There are other things about the area that are hard for me. But like the weather, that doesn't mean I'm saying this is a horrible area for everyone. I'm not Type A, I'm not career driven, I struggle with people who have "sharp elbows" and that stuff is part of the culture here. That's fine if that's you, but it's hard to live and work among it for decades when it's very much not you. I think I need to be in the Upper Midwest or New England. This is just not my place.

Thankfully my DH doesn't think these feelings are unreasonable, and even though he's pretty tied to this area for work, we are starting to work on a plan to move in the next 6 years or so, because while there are good things about his job, it is not worth me being miserable for decades.

You’re going to be miserable wherever you go. People with a capacity for happiness adapt and make the best of things. DC is not some hellish sh-hole. It’s hot and the mosquitoes suck. But insisting you will be miserable here for DECADES due solely to DC … well that’s about your mental health, not DC.

It would be one thing if a move is fairly low-risk and the other spouse isn’t missing much. But that’s not what OP describes.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm in my mid 50s. Boy, that went fast. By "that", I mean my 20s, 30s, 40s. In the blink of an eye they were over, gone. You get into your 50s and start looking back on where you could have squeezed more enjoyment out of life. How you were so afraid to change, because of how it would look to other people instead of how it would make you feel. How you were afraid to take that chance that one time (such as relocating) that would have been a fork in the road that took you to something better. You can't see it now, but you will.

I would move and try something new.

Alternatively, OP will hit her mid-50s stuck in a low-paying rural job she dislikes, without enough savings for looming retirement and college tuition, and facing aging in a rural locality her children will not want to visit.

Did the OP say that she looked at jobs and could only find low paying unlike-able jobs? I mean, there are good jobs in small towns. Has she even looked?

Highly unlikely the job is anything like what OP has now. There’s a reason people leave rural areas to move to cities like DC for work.

Sure. When you are just out of school, you need a mentor to teach you how to do your job, and you want to be part of an entire infrastructure.
But once you are in your forties, you can kind of do what you want (unless you are in a field that needs a big infrastructure no matter what (ie. Transplant surgeon)).

I’m not sure what planet you are living on. Sure I have enough experience in my 40s to find another job, but you can’t just snap your fingers and get an equivalent job anywhere that replaces my very DC job.

But you can start a business, right? If your spouse agrees to be the sole wage earner for a while and is willing to live anywhere in the country that you want to live as long as it’s not a huge city?
There is really no way that you could possibly find any meaningful work in that situation? I mean, I get it if you are highly trained to do something specific that requires a big infrastructure, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on with OP. I think she is mostly very anxious.

Let’s all just snap our fingers and start a business that will make $230,000 right off the bat. I wonder why no one thought of this before!

Too right! LOL :lol:

Pp here. It’s not really that crazy. I’ve done it. Both my parents did it. My brother did it. People with professional degrees start small businesses making $200k/ yr all of the time.

No, they don’t. And maybe OP doesn’t want to? Why would I want to give up my colleagues and pension to start a business?

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. These are all helpful perspectives. I make about 230 and he makes about 160. He is open to somewhere near a cool town/small city like Burlington VT.

I understand you love your job, but have you looked at how far 160k will go in Vermont?

As a PP said (I paraphrase): DC absolutely sucks for people who aren’t originally from the area. You can deal with it for awhile because it does have a few perks, but eventually it is kind of a soul crushing place to live (and raise your kids) when you know from experience that a different lifestyle is out there…

the idea that OP should give up her well-paying, flexible job that she loves so her WFH husband can move to a rural area is just bonkers. Wrong on every level.

also the DC area is not “soul crushing.” we have access to lots of outdoor activities. if her DH isn’t getting out that is his fault. he’s blaming his malaise on DC (and now setting up a scenario where he gets to blame OP). he’s not 20. he needs to take responsibility for himself.

+1 so tired of these DMV haters. I didn’t grow up here but I love the DMV. Great food, lots of diversity, smart and ambitious people, mountains and ocean within a fairly reasonable drive, and four seasons. This is a fabulous area for runners too.

Sorry, I guess the DMV area can be okay if you are fabulously wealthy, enjoy being in your car for significant chunks of your day, and are hyper competitive in all aspects of your life. Oh, and also enjoy swamp like weather in the summer, cold gray winters, and the most sprawling development as far as the eye can see.

For everyone else it’s just one step up from a hell hole.

You just sound like a very negative person who would be unhappy anywhere.

I AM actually a generally negative person, but we moved out of the DMV and I have never been happier.

I am really glad so many of you enjoy that lifestyle, but for many of us it is truly awful. For example, the “fun places to hike and bike” generally necessitate that you first DRIVE to those places (unless as mentioned before you are wealthy enough to live in one of the genuinely walkable safe areas, which obviously most people are not). Some of us don’t want to commute to our leisure activities as well as our jobs.

Again, good for you if you like the DMV. A lot of people hate it for very good reason, and it sounds like OP’s husband is one of them, so taking the attitude that he is obligated to just suck it up and spend the next couple decades of his life in an area that makes him miserable is completely unfair.

Luckily it sounds like OP is far more reasonable than most of the DMV apologists on this thread, so they might have a chance.

Most of the people I know who live in rural/vacation areas drive a lot. And I’m sorry, if you have a burning need to live right on a lake or the beach, you should not have put down roots in a city and shaped your life around that.

Life is long, my friend. Feelings change. Circumstances change. Have you never tried anything thinking you’d enjoy it and then realized that you didn’t? Have you ever genuinely enjoyed something for awhile, but then slowly stopped enjoying it?

Because his wife has a job she loves in DC, that means he has to stay here forever no matter how much he hates it? There is absolutely no room for compromise because he decided to live in this area however many years ago?

This is rigid thinking and I suspect it is coming from a place of deep anxiety. The same kind of anxious thinking that would lead someone to think that 160K “doesn’t go far anywhere” as one PP said. And while the husband says he wants rural, there are of course many options in between city/suburb and completely rural that could potentially satisfy both of them (small town in a nice location, maybe?)

Yes, to all of this. The people who are adamant that this guy should just "suck it up" for the next 10-15 years either have marriage issues or are overly defensive of the DMV. OP doesn't even feel that way and she's the one who would actually have to move.

It is incredibly hard to live in a place where you just don't feel happy or like you belong. I have felt that way in the DMV for about a decade, and it's really hard. My DH very much wants to stay but we have finally started talking about leaving and trying to find a compromise elsewhere that meets both our needs, because it's just incredibly hard on my mental health to be somewhere that doesn't feel good to me. That doesn't mean this is a bad place. It means it's not right for me.

There is sometimes an attitude here (you find it in NY too) that if you don't like some aspect of the DMV, the problem is YOU. But come on. One of the biggest things I struggle with here is the weather. I come from a dry climate with real winters. I actually like rain and inclement weather, but before I moved here I had no idea that "hot rain" was a thing, having never lived in a very humid or tropical environment. This is not a knock on people who live here and love it -- I think many of you are just more acclimated to this weather and maybe have bodies that deal better with it? I am uncomfortable much of the year and then get depressed in the winter when it's just gray and bleak but there is no snow. Every year, year after year.

There are other things about the area that are hard for me. But like the weather, that doesn't mean I'm saying this is a horrible area for everyone. I'm not Type A, I'm not career driven, I struggle with people who have "sharp elbows" and that stuff is part of the culture here. That's fine if that's you, but it's hard to live and work among it for decades when it's very much not you. I think I need to be in the Upper Midwest or New England. This is just not my place.

Thankfully my DH doesn't think these feelings are unreasonable, and even though he's pretty tied to this area for work, we are starting to work on a plan to move in the next 6 years or so, because while there are good things about his job, it is not worth me being miserable for decades.

You’re going to be miserable wherever you go. People with a capacity for happiness adapt and make the best of things. DC is not some hellish sh-hole. It’s hot and the mosquitoes suck. But insisting you will be miserable here for DECADES due solely to DC … well that’s about your mental health, not DC.

It would be one thing if a move is fairly low-risk and the other spouse isn’t missing much. But that’s not what OP describes.

I agree with this. I would much, much rather live in upstate NY, western MA, or VT than DC. No contest. My spouse would too. But we don't think that's worth the cost to our school-aged kids of uprooting, or giving up one career (because it's HARD to find two specialized jobs in a rural area - thats why we are still own) and taking a 50%+ pay cut. So we are trying to bloom where we're planted, even without the amazing opportunity of a month away every summer. We can't all maximize all areas of personal happiness when we're part of a family unit. That's marriage and parenting. It doesn't make life DIRE.

So what you are saying is that if you moved to one of those other places, you would like the setting more but you'd be unhappy because of the pay cut, not being able to do your ideal job, and moving your kids. Okay.

Some people are unhappy in the DMV because of the cost of living, disliking the work culture here, and having their kids in a highly competitive environment that is not what they want for their kids. I think these people would be happier somewhere else.

But you've create this self-justifying fiction where if someone isn't happy in the DMV, it's just because they are naturally unhappy people. Come on.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm in my mid 50s. Boy, that went fast. By "that", I mean my 20s, 30s, 40s. In the blink of an eye they were over, gone. You get into your 50s and start looking back on where you could have squeezed more enjoyment out of life. How you were so afraid to change, because of how it would look to other people instead of how it would make you feel. How you were afraid to take that chance that one time (such as relocating) that would have been a fork in the road that took you to something better. You can't see it now, but you will.

I would move and try something new.

Alternatively, OP will hit her mid-50s stuck in a low-paying rural job she dislikes, without enough savings for looming retirement and college tuition, and facing aging in a rural locality her children will not want to visit.

Did the OP say that she looked at jobs and could only find low paying unlike-able jobs? I mean, there are good jobs in small towns. Has she even looked?

Highly unlikely the job is anything like what OP has now. There’s a reason people leave rural areas to move to cities like DC for work.

Sure. When you are just out of school, you need a mentor to teach you how to do your job, and you want to be part of an entire infrastructure.
But once you are in your forties, you can kind of do what you want (unless you are in a field that needs a big infrastructure no matter what (ie. Transplant surgeon)).

I’m not sure what planet you are living on. Sure I have enough experience in my 40s to find another job, but you can’t just snap your fingers and get an equivalent job anywhere that replaces my very DC job.

But you can start a business, right? If your spouse agrees to be the sole wage earner for a while and is willing to live anywhere in the country that you want to live as long as it’s not a huge city?
There is really no way that you could possibly find any meaningful work in that situation? I mean, I get it if you are highly trained to do something specific that requires a big infrastructure, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on with OP. I think she is mostly very anxious.

Let’s all just snap our fingers and start a business that will make $230,000 right off the bat. I wonder why no one thought of this before!

Too right! LOL :lol:

Pp here. It’s not really that crazy. I’ve done it. Both my parents did it. My brother did it. People with professional degrees start small businesses making $200k/ yr all of the time.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. These are all helpful perspectives. I make about 230 and he makes about 160. He is open to somewhere near a cool town/small city like Burlington VT.

I understand you love your job, but have you looked at how far 160k will go in Vermont?

As a PP said (I paraphrase): DC absolutely sucks for people who aren’t originally from the area. You can deal with it for awhile because it does have a few perks, but eventually it is kind of a soul crushing place to live (and raise your kids) when you know from experience that a different lifestyle is out there…

the idea that OP should give up her well-paying, flexible job that she loves so her WFH husband can move to a rural area is just bonkers. Wrong on every level.

also the DC area is not “soul crushing.” we have access to lots of outdoor activities. if her DH isn’t getting out that is his fault. he’s blaming his malaise on DC (and now setting up a scenario where he gets to blame OP). he’s not 20. he needs to take responsibility for himself.

+1 so tired of these DMV haters. I didn’t grow up here but I love the DMV. Great food, lots of diversity, smart and ambitious people, mountains and ocean within a fairly reasonable drive, and four seasons. This is a fabulous area for runners too.

Sorry, I guess the DMV area can be okay if you are fabulously wealthy, enjoy being in your car for significant chunks of your day, and are hyper competitive in all aspects of your life. Oh, and also enjoy swamp like weather in the summer, cold gray winters, and the most sprawling development as far as the eye can see.

For everyone else it’s just one step up from a hell hole.

You just sound like a very negative person who would be unhappy anywhere.

I AM actually a generally negative person, but we moved out of the DMV and I have never been happier.

I am really glad so many of you enjoy that lifestyle, but for many of us it is truly awful. For example, the “fun places to hike and bike” generally necessitate that you first DRIVE to those places (unless as mentioned before you are wealthy enough to live in one of the genuinely walkable safe areas, which obviously most people are not). Some of us don’t want to commute to our leisure activities as well as our jobs.

Again, good for you if you like the DMV. A lot of people hate it for very good reason, and it sounds like OP’s husband is one of them, so taking the attitude that he is obligated to just suck it up and spend the next couple decades of his life in an area that makes him miserable is completely unfair.

Luckily it sounds like OP is far more reasonable than most of the DMV apologists on this thread, so they might have a chance.

Most of the people I know who live in rural/vacation areas drive a lot. And I’m sorry, if you have a burning need to live right on a lake or the beach, you should not have put down roots in a city and shaped your life around that.

Life is long, my friend. Feelings change. Circumstances change. Have you never tried anything thinking you’d enjoy it and then realized that you didn’t? Have you ever genuinely enjoyed something for awhile, but then slowly stopped enjoying it?

Because his wife has a job she loves in DC, that means he has to stay here forever no matter how much he hates it? There is absolutely no room for compromise because he decided to live in this area however many years ago?

This is rigid thinking and I suspect it is coming from a place of deep anxiety. The same kind of anxious thinking that would lead someone to think that 160K “doesn’t go far anywhere” as one PP said. And while the husband says he wants rural, there are of course many options in between city/suburb and completely rural that could potentially satisfy both of them (small town in a nice location, maybe?)

Yes, to all of this. The people who are adamant that this guy should just "suck it up" for the next 10-15 years either have marriage issues or are overly defensive of the DMV. OP doesn't even feel that way and she's the one who would actually have to move.

It is incredibly hard to live in a place where you just don't feel happy or like you belong. I have felt that way in the DMV for about a decade, and it's really hard. My DH very much wants to stay but we have finally started talking about leaving and trying to find a compromise elsewhere that meets both our needs, because it's just incredibly hard on my mental health to be somewhere that doesn't feel good to me. That doesn't mean this is a bad place. It means it's not right for me.

There is sometimes an attitude here (you find it in NY too) that if you don't like some aspect of the DMV, the problem is YOU. But come on. One of the biggest things I struggle with here is the weather. I come from a dry climate with real winters. I actually like rain and inclement weather, but before I moved here I had no idea that "hot rain" was a thing, having never lived in a very humid or tropical environment. This is not a knock on people who live here and love it -- I think many of you are just more acclimated to this weather and maybe have bodies that deal better with it? I am uncomfortable much of the year and then get depressed in the winter when it's just gray and bleak but there is no snow. Every year, year after year.

There are other things about the area that are hard for me. But like the weather, that doesn't mean I'm saying this is a horrible area for everyone. I'm not Type A, I'm not career driven, I struggle with people who have "sharp elbows" and that stuff is part of the culture here. That's fine if that's you, but it's hard to live and work among it for decades when it's very much not you. I think I need to be in the Upper Midwest or New England. This is just not my place.

Thankfully my DH doesn't think these feelings are unreasonable, and even though he's pretty tied to this area for work, we are starting to work on a plan to move in the next 6 years or so, because while there are good things about his job, it is not worth me being miserable for decades.

You’re going to be miserable wherever you go. People with a capacity for happiness adapt and make the best of things. DC is not some hellish sh-hole. It’s hot and the mosquitoes suck. But insisting you will be miserable here for DECADES due solely to DC … well that’s about your mental health, not DC.

It would be one thing if a move is fairly low-risk and the other spouse isn’t missing much. But that’s not what OP describes.

I agree with this. I would much, much rather live in upstate NY, western MA, or VT than DC. No contest. My spouse would too. But we don't think that's worth the cost to our school-aged kids of uprooting, or giving up one career (because it's HARD to find two specialized jobs in a rural area - thats why we are still own) and taking a 50%+ pay cut. So we are trying to bloom where we're planted, even without the amazing opportunity of a month away every summer. We can't all maximize all areas of personal happiness when we're part of a family unit. That's marriage and parenting. It doesn't make life DIRE.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm in my mid 50s. Boy, that went fast. By "that", I mean my 20s, 30s, 40s. In the blink of an eye they were over, gone. You get into your 50s and start looking back on where you could have squeezed more enjoyment out of life. How you were so afraid to change, because of how it would look to other people instead of how it would make you feel. How you were afraid to take that chance that one time (such as relocating) that would have been a fork in the road that took you to something better. You can't see it now, but you will.

I would move and try something new.

Alternatively, OP will hit her mid-50s stuck in a low-paying rural job she dislikes, without enough savings for looming retirement and college tuition, and facing aging in a rural locality her children will not want to visit.

Did the OP say that she looked at jobs and could only find low paying unlike-able jobs? I mean, there are good jobs in small towns. Has she even looked?

Highly unlikely the job is anything like what OP has now. There’s a reason people leave rural areas to move to cities like DC for work.

Sure. When you are just out of school, you need a mentor to teach you how to do your job, and you want to be part of an entire infrastructure.
But once you are in your forties, you can kind of do what you want (unless you are in a field that needs a big infrastructure no matter what (ie. Transplant surgeon)).

I’m not sure what planet you are living on. Sure I have enough experience in my 40s to find another job, but you can’t just snap your fingers and get an equivalent job anywhere that replaces my very DC job.

But you can start a business, right? If your spouse agrees to be the sole wage earner for a while and is willing to live anywhere in the country that you want to live as long as it’s not a huge city?
There is really no way that you could possibly find any meaningful work in that situation? I mean, I get it if you are highly trained to do something specific that requires a big infrastructure, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on with OP. I think she is mostly very anxious.

sure I could start a business doing crap legal work … after taking a year to be admitted to the bar and giving up my pension and 200k/40hr week interesting fed job and not to mention our 3% mortgage…

I mean, there is more to life than making the most money you possibly can.
You could be the Patch Adams of legal work. Or you could go to Urbana and work for Patch yourself.

I mean, my understanding is that your husband is willing to be the sole breadwinner and primary caretaker of your child as long as you will move outside of the DMV, and you have pretty much free reign to choose wherever that is, and you won’t even entertain the idea.

I’m not OP. I just think it’s ludicrous for a woman to give up a career based on basically a whim of her husband.

Anonymous wrote:There's a lot of talk about not feeling like you belong, and not a lot about moving to a brand new small town or rural area where you don't know anyone in middle age. Have any of you done this? It's a HUGE ask. It's not just giving up a career, but also any social networks and support systems you've built up over the years. And it gets harder every time as you get older. Why would everyone assume OP would be fine being completely cut off from everyone but her husband? Yikes.