Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had great experience w APS re class size. However my kid who transitioned from Arlington public to private found he was ahead in math and behind in reading/writing.

My sibling who is a college professor says it’s shocking how many kids at selective colleges can’t write these days. APS should up it’s game in that regard.

I’m the attorney who posted
about our interns at Georgetown law. I feel that it is imperative that colleges begin communicating this to schools. Schools need to know that even their brightest aren’t prepared for college.

How are you hiring? Are they submitting writing from the law school year?

Are you looking beyond Georgetown or just relying on the reputation of the school? These students aren’t the brightest if they can’t write, no matter what school they come from. The smartest lawyers I know didn’t come out of the big-name schools- that’s just an anecdote of course.

Then there also must be something wrong with Georgetown's legal writing program.

PP here. The thing is, their writing samples are excellent. So clearly they have been edited well. The bigger issue I feel is that the interns I am thinking of seem to be under the impression that it is ok to turn a very rough draft in. Drafts still need to be well written. This isn’t a an email to a friend. I don’t want to completely bash Georgetown Law. As I explained in my previous post, the interns from Georgetown seem to be part of a pattern. I just picked on them because their school is quite reputable and we had three interns from them that had terrible writing skills. To be fair, we’ve had great interns from Georgetown as well. But in general, the quality of writing we are getting is becoming worse and worse.

I’ve seen this in my personal life as well. I’ve reviewed college application essays for my husband’s nephews and nieces. They are all super smart smart but their writing skills are terrible. They are all applying to med school, dental school, PA school etc. where writing doesn’t matter as much. But I feel that high school graduates should still be able to write a decent paper. I read a good article by Natalie Wexler and Judith Hochman. What they are saying makes a lot of sense. Kids need to be explicitly taught how to write starting at the sentence level. When I read it it’s like a lightbulb went off. This is the problem. Students no longer know how to construct complex sentences.

https://www.aft.org/ae/summer2017/hochman_wexler

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had great experience w APS re class size. However my kid who transitioned from Arlington public to private found he was ahead in math and behind in reading/writing.

My sibling who is a college professor says it’s shocking how many kids at selective colleges can’t write these days. APS should up it’s game in that regard.

I’m the attorney who posted
about our interns at Georgetown law. I feel that it is imperative that colleges begin communicating this to schools. Schools need to know that even their brightest aren’t prepared for college.

How are you hiring? Are they submitting writing from the law school year?

Are you looking beyond Georgetown or just relying on the reputation of the school? These students aren’t the brightest if they can’t write, no matter what school they come from. The smartest lawyers I know didn’t come out of the big-name schools- that’s just an anecdote of course.

Without revealing too much I work for one of the federal financial regulators. Our office does get the resumes directly. They goes to a hiring committee which selects certain resumes. When I was doing the interviews, I would get a couple of resumes from my associate director and those interviews would be scheduled. Two people from my office are present along with members of the hiring committee. We conduct the interview and then make a recommendation to our director on who to hire. The writing samples all look great and so do the students on paper. So it makes sense why they were selected for the interview in the first place. They also really interview well and seem pretty smart. They ask all the right questions. But then when they come to actually intern for us, I noticed that their writing skills are really poor. Very basic college level writing. Also there seems to be little attention to detail. I’ve never redlined this much in my life.

We do not only hire from Georgetown law. I mention Georgetown law because it is a top school and because I had three interns with really poor writing skills coming from there. All of them now have good jobs in highly regarded firms or agencies. We have had interns from various law schools - some better than others. But I did notice that as the years have gone by (I’ve been working for this office for 10 years), the interns we are getting have increasingly poor writing skills. So there seems to be a pattern. We do get interns with good writing skills but before every single intern would be an excellent writer, no matter where they graduated from. I haven’t been part of the hiring process for the past two years so I can’t speak as to the quality of the applicant pool post Covid. I also am teleworking more and haven’t interacted with our interns as much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a status symbol thing - as wealthier and wealthier families move into ARL, they'll shift more and more to private. I don't know why this isn't obvious to you.

And yet most families still go public. Even in the priciest neighborhoods.

Arlington wealthy isn’t the same as DC wealthy. 50+K of after tax dollars is a lot to pay per year (per kid!), even if you live in a 3 million dollar home.

I think you’re overestimating the wealth of the majority of private school parents and underestimating the number of families with grandparents paying tuition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a status symbol thing - as wealthier and wealthier families move into ARL, they'll shift more and more to private. I don't know why this isn't obvious to you.

And yet most families still go public. Even in the priciest neighborhoods.

Arlington wealthy isn’t the same as DC wealthy. 50+K of after tax dollars is a lot to pay per year (per kid!), even if you live in a 3 million dollar home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a status symbol thing - as wealthier and wealthier families move into ARL, they'll shift more and more to private. I don't know why this isn't obvious to you.

And yet most families still go public. Even in the priciest neighborhoods.

You think? Give us a zip code where you think that is true.

22201 - most of my neighborhood still goes to APS.

You are correct.

22201: Median HHI is $133,471, with 43% over $150,000. Population 39,240. Enrollment in public school in the zip code is ~3850 of out ~5200 school aged children living in the Zipcode, or ~74%. So most use public schools, but it does not appear that a large percentage could easily afford private school. The 26% who use private schools seems to correlate roughly with the percentage of households that could afford to do so (just a rough assumption, of course, given that the generally more affordable Catholic schools in that diocese educates ~18,400 students).

Look a little closer at the age spread if you’re going to do stats. You’re assuming the people with kids are spread evenly across the income spectrum when in reality that zip code has a ton of apts and condos with 20-35 year olds. These are not the people with school age kids. In reality a much higher percentage of those with kids could afford private.

I'm an executive recruiter and writing is a skill that most do not have. I kid you not. Liberal Arts majors may be able to write. Most others cannot. Writing is hard though. It's also about complexity of thoughts - we live in the text universe where we don't think very hard anymore though We don't navigate because we have google maps to help, we don't always cook because we can order out, etc. etc. My point is writing is not just the grammar and sentence structure it is also about putting your thoughts together and it's teaching someone critical thinking along with the grammar that will lead to strong writing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a status symbol thing - as wealthier and wealthier families move into ARL, they'll shift more and more to private. I don't know why this isn't obvious to you.

And yet most families still go public. Even in the priciest neighborhoods.

You think? Give us a zip code where you think that is true.

22201 - most of my neighborhood still goes to APS.

You are correct.

22201: Median HHI is $133,471, with 43% over $150,000. Population 39,240. Enrollment in public school in the zip code is ~3850 of out ~5200 school aged children living in the Zipcode, or ~74%. So most use public schools, but it does not appear that a large percentage could easily afford private school. The 26% who use private schools seems to correlate roughly with the percentage of households that could afford to do so (just a rough assumption, of course, given that the generally more affordable Catholic schools in that diocese educates ~18,400 students).

I'm in LV. Many in my neighborhood could afford private, but most still choose to send to APS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had great experience w APS re class size. However my kid who transitioned from Arlington public to private found he was ahead in math and behind in reading/writing.

My sibling who is a college professor says it’s shocking how many kids at selective colleges can’t write these days. APS should up it’s game in that regard.

I’m the attorney who posted
about our interns at Georgetown law. I feel that it is imperative that colleges begin communicating this to schools. Schools need to know that even their brightest aren’t prepared for college.

How are you hiring? Are they submitting writing from the law school year?

Are you looking beyond Georgetown or just relying on the reputation of the school? These students aren’t the brightest if they can’t write, no matter what school they come from. The smartest lawyers I know didn’t come out of the big-name schools- that’s just an anecdote of course.

Then there also must be something wrong with Georgetown's legal writing program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a status symbol thing - as wealthier and wealthier families move into ARL, they'll shift more and more to private. I don't know why this isn't obvious to you.

And yet most families still go public. Even in the priciest neighborhoods.

You think? Give us a zip code where you think that is true.

22201 - most of my neighborhood still goes to APS.

You are correct.

22201: Median HHI is $133,471, with 43% over $150,000. Population 39,240. Enrollment in public school in the zip code is ~3850 of out ~5200 school aged children living in the Zipcode, or ~74%. So most use public schools, but it does not appear that a large percentage could easily afford private school. The 26% who use private schools seems to correlate roughly with the percentage of households that could afford to do so (just a rough assumption, of course, given that the generally more affordable Catholic schools in that diocese educates ~18,400 students).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had great experience w APS re class size. However my kid who transitioned from Arlington public to private found he was ahead in math and behind in reading/writing.

My sibling who is a college professor says it’s shocking how many kids at selective colleges can’t write these days. APS should up it’s game in that regard.

Its

Yes. I’m an attorney and we have interns coming to us from Georgetown Law and they can barely write a paragraph.

Seems like that's an even bigger problem. Their 4-years college didn't fix the problem either?

PP here. I guess not. I just don’t understand how someone can get into law school with such poor writing skills. My worry is that if these are the “best of the best” when it comes to writing, what is everyone else’s writing like? Maybe students come to college with such poor writing skills that colleges have to dumb down the curriculum? I honestly have no idea what’s going on.

Writing for law is not taught until law school, and yes it is a totally different skill set. Then, writing the way your firm wants you to write is yet another skill set. There is also a generational divide in how drafts are created, and some old school lawyers do not understand the process of the current generation. For example, associates are frustrated with older partners who nitpick on the polish when the brief is in the idea and supporting evidence phase. The current generation of writers have been taught a process that puts the polish last, not that it never comes.

I wouldn't put it like that. The older generation was taught and mentored and knows what polish is - while the current generation was not really given training or mentorship and probably never learned polish at all. This is a law firm failing though, not a school failing. Training first year associates is too expensive now so firms don't do it anymore. Although actually it's the same for schools - teaching writing skills is expensive in terms of time and effort by the teacher and they don't do it anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had great experience w APS re class size. However my kid who transitioned from Arlington public to private found he was ahead in math and behind in reading/writing.

My sibling who is a college professor says it’s shocking how many kids at selective colleges can’t write these days. APS should up it’s game in that regard.

Its

Yes. I’m an attorney and we have interns coming to us from Georgetown Law and they can barely write a paragraph.

Seems like that's an even bigger problem. Their 4-years college didn't fix the problem either?

PP here. I guess not. I just don’t understand how someone can get into law school with such poor writing skills. My worry is that if these are the “best of the best” when it comes to writing, what is everyone else’s writing like? Maybe students come to college with such poor writing skills that colleges have to dumb down the curriculum? I honestly have no idea what’s going on.

Writing for law is not taught until law school, and yes it is a totally different skill set. Then, writing the way your firm wants you to write is yet another skill set. There is also a generational divide in how drafts are created, and some old school lawyers do not understand the process of the current generation. For example, associates are frustrated with older partners who nitpick on the polish when the brief is in the idea and supporting evidence phase. The current generation of writers have been taught a process that puts the polish last, not that it never comes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a status symbol thing - as wealthier and wealthier families move into ARL, they'll shift more and more to private. I don't know why this isn't obvious to you.

And yet most families still go public. Even in the priciest neighborhoods.

You think? Give us a zip code where you think that is true.

22201 - most of my neighborhood still goes to APS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a status symbol thing - as wealthier and wealthier families move into ARL, they'll shift more and more to private. I don't know why this isn't obvious to you.

And yet most families still go public. Even in the priciest neighborhoods.

You think? Give us a zip code where you think that is true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I left not because of Covid. Liberals can go f themselves before my dc are anywhere near one of your wack a doodle nut jobs in a classroom. You wanted only those like you. You got it. Enjoy.

Don’t let the door hit you in the ass. We absolutely don’t need your kind and your anti-American values.

Yes we do. Arlington has become an echo chamber and with no dissent there is no discussion and terrible choices are implemented. Fake “ equity” ruins education in Arlington especially for those without money. The rich simply virtue signal and then pay for private support through tutors.

That's how liberal school reform works. The rich push it and then pay whatever it takes to make sure their kids aren't effected by it. You can go all the way back to integration and see liberals moving to districts not effected right up through the current flight to privates

Yeah, sadly, it affects those students

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had great experience w APS re class size. However my kid who transitioned from Arlington public to private found he was ahead in math and behind in reading/writing.

My sibling who is a college professor says it’s shocking how many kids at selective colleges can’t write these days. APS should up it’s game in that regard.

I’m the attorney who posted
about our interns at Georgetown law. I feel that it is imperative that colleges begin communicating this to schools. Schools need to know that even their brightest aren’t prepared for college.

I think you need to stop hiring these people. Screen better. Put some time into it. That will convey the message.