Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 16:50     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Probably should have not had kids if you were going to make everything about you. Relationships and marriages end- kids experience these family break ups and it happens. People raise kids without a partner, and it can work, it's probably harder, but kids do ok. Marriage isn't the only social construct, but if you aren't going that route, you can see all the legal wrangling around it. It's hard, it's complicated, it's emotionally taxing, and yep, expensive.

But why try to complicate, deliberately, these kids' lives? If looks like you are trying to go out of your way to express your sexual needs over your child's needs. Take a pause out of yourself and focus on what's important. Can you do that?
Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 16:17     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness


I don't know anyone engaged in ENM who didn't either decide it didn't work OR later get diagnosed with bipolar, BPD, or other major issues OR they were happy content but it caused massive problems for others (the narcissists who just want what they want and don't care how it impacts others).

When I see people advocating for ENM like it's the magical solution to everything, and especially when they start trying to argue that ENM is the more "evolved" way to approach marriage, I just roll my eyes. Someone should do a study on ENM communities to show long-term outcomes, both on marriages and on any children raised by actively ENM couples. As someone who knows many ENM couples, I feel confident any such study would show that ENM is bad for long term marital success rates and especially bad for families.


Well, marital success rates are pretty bad with or without ENM. What irritates me is people who act like ENM is some way to increase the stability of marriage (obviously not) or refuse to consider the issues with kids or uneven power differentials.

That said, I do know two couples that got together very young and seem to have done ENM successfully in their 20s as a way to keep both the relationship and ability to experiment. One couple closed the relationship when they had kids and that seemed to be successful - but one of the partners later transitioned so there was obviously a lot going on. Writing this makes them sound chaotic but truly they are some of the best people I’ve met. I don’t have great insight into their family but I believe they are giving their kids a great upbringing even if nontraditional.

The other couple kept the marriage open (even after kids) and are now crashing and burning spectacularly.

So you never can tell.


So one family spectacularly exploded

and one family (which you don’t have insight into) also spectacularly exploded

I think we can tell.


One spectacularlt exploded - the ENM is making it worse, but would have failed anyway

The other is going strong


The other “going strong”? You described a couple who is (1) no longer ENM, and (2) in which one partner has transitioned.

Just spit-balling here, but do you think there’s any chance that the choice to do ENM, and the fact that one partner ultimately decided that they needed to transition to the other gender, might be related? This is not an issue that is common to a lot of marriages, and will likely become even less so as trans awareness improves and people transition earlier in life before settling into marriages that might be unlikely to meet their needs.

So based on your observations, ENM is either a weigh station on the way to divorce, or possibly a symptom of much larger gender/sexuality issues that go well beyond the constraints of monogamy.


I’m not willing to judge all cases, no. Monogamous couples certainly don’t behave well either.


Some monogamous couples "behave" very well, in that they have loving, lasting relationships. Many monogamous relationships form the cornerstone of family life, and create stable, loving, and reliable environments for their children to grow up in. All of them? Not at all. But go find me an emotionally healthy adult. What was their childhood like? We both know.

Open marriage is something adults do for themselves. I don't think it's morally wrong to decide to have an open relationship. But my observation is that open marriage is not a great environment for kids to grow up in. And the examples provided above, lauded as "some of the best people I've ever met" is an example of why. Instability is bad for kids.
Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 16:02     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:no our kids do not know but they know that mom goes out with friends to do things because dad is a homebody and doesn't like to go out


Open only for you or also DH?


Mutually open, he just doesn't date or have interest in dating people. He isn't going to give any woman he meets the quality time and the kind of connection most women will want. Same problem we had that got us here to begin with. When we have talked about how things are going he has shared that he has hooked up with people when out of town at college reunions or when on travel. His happy place is just working, taking care of his kids, getting some low effort sex and being left alone otherwise. I've opted out of being his low effort easy access orfice and am enjoying having companionship and conversation and others things that I need while dating and being seen as a whole interesting fun human to hang out with again. I've actually tried to help give him advice to help him out on the dating scene but women and relationships are clearly not a priority to him beyond fulfilling a functional physical need periodically.





Thanks PO. How do you meet the guys you date? How do you explain your situation to them? Are they good with it?


Have you met men? LOL
The number of men who are willing to be ENM, at least initially, is very high.

Guys just want to get in there.

DP
Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 15:57     Subject: Re:Open Marriage with kids
Also, what if you run into someone you know while on a date?
Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 15:57     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:no our kids do not know but they know that mom goes out with friends to do things because dad is a homebody and doesn't like to go out


Open only for you or also DH?


Mutually open, he just doesn't date or have interest in dating people. He isn't going to give any woman he meets the quality time and the kind of connection most women will want. Same problem we had that got us here to begin with. When we have talked about how things are going he has shared that he has hooked up with people when out of town at college reunions or when on travel. His happy place is just working, taking care of his kids, getting some low effort sex and being left alone otherwise. I've opted out of being his low effort easy access orfice and am enjoying having companionship and conversation and others things that I need while dating and being seen as a whole interesting fun human to hang out with again. I've actually tried to help give him advice to help him out on the dating scene but women and relationships are clearly not a priority to him beyond fulfilling a functional physical need periodically.





Thanks PO. How do you meet the guys you date? How do you explain your situation to them? Are they good with it?
Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 14:24     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, you should get help. It’s mental illness, not a further evolved philosophy.


It’s on which page of the dsm5?


Check out the NPD section.


ENM/poly people often have npds. That’s true.

That doesn’t seem to be the case with OP.
Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 14:24     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:Why does everyone on this board care what other people are doing in their marriages?
How about adultery with kids? That’s likely more common.


How 'bout b/c the OP solicited opinions on this subject?

We shouldn't be shocked that people responded.

Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 14:22     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, you should get help. It’s mental illness, not a further evolved philosophy.


It’s on which page of the dsm5?


Check out the NPD section.
Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 09:10     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:no our kids do not know but they know that mom goes out with friends to do things because dad is a homebody and doesn't like to go out


Open only for you or also DH?


Mutually open, he just doesn't date or have interest in dating people. He isn't going to give any woman he meets the quality time and the kind of connection most women will want. Same problem we had that got us here to begin with. When we have talked about how things are going he has shared that he has hooked up with people when out of town at college reunions or when on travel. His happy place is just working, taking care of his kids, getting some low effort sex and being left alone otherwise. I've opted out of being his low effort easy access orfice and am enjoying having companionship and conversation and others things that I need while dating and being seen as a whole interesting fun human to hang out with again. I've actually tried to help give him advice to help him out on the dating scene but women and relationships are clearly not a priority to him beyond fulfilling a functional physical need periodically.




Ummm…what? All of this sounds miserable. It’s good you’re keeping this from your kids, though. Yikes.


it definitely was while being loyal and trying to get basic relationship needs met from him for many years that he refused to give (or was incapable of...there is past trauma he hasn't healed from in his life) but we are happier now this way
we relate better now in a friendly way, family dynamic is healthier and the kids feel that and see us having happier and less resentful energy around each other
not selling it to anyone, it isn't something I would say is ideal and this wasn't my dream life but doing what works for us for now



Anonymous
Post 07/20/2023 07:11     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:no our kids do not know but they know that mom goes out with friends to do things because dad is a homebody and doesn't like to go out


Open only for you or also DH?


Mutually open, he just doesn't date or have interest in dating people. He isn't going to give any woman he meets the quality time and the kind of connection most women will want. Same problem we had that got us here to begin with. When we have talked about how things are going he has shared that he has hooked up with people when out of town at college reunions or when on travel. His happy place is just working, taking care of his kids, getting some low effort sex and being left alone otherwise. I've opted out of being his low effort easy access orfice and am enjoying having companionship and conversation and others things that I need while dating and being seen as a whole interesting fun human to hang out with again. I've actually tried to help give him advice to help him out on the dating scene but women and relationships are clearly not a priority to him beyond fulfilling a functional physical need periodically.





This sounds more like a don’t ask don’t tell policy for you.
Anonymous
Post 07/19/2023 21:36     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:Why does everyone on this board care what other people are doing in their marriages?
How about adultery with kids? That’s likely more common.


Did you not notice? It's not just "what other people are doing in their marriages." They don't stick to doing it in their own lives; they feel obliged to proselytize and tell the world about how wonderful their choices are, and how others will benefit from the same choices. That takes it out of their private lives and sticks it in our faces.
Anonymous
Post 07/19/2023 21:30     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Why does everyone on this board care what other people are doing in their marriages?
How about adultery with kids? That’s likely more common.
Anonymous
Post 07/19/2023 21:14     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:OP, you should get help. It’s mental illness, not a further evolved philosophy.


It’s on which page of the dsm5?
Anonymous
Post 07/19/2023 20:38     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:no our kids do not know but they know that mom goes out with friends to do things because dad is a homebody and doesn't like to go out


Open only for you or also DH?


Mutually open, he just doesn't date or have interest in dating people. He isn't going to give any woman he meets the quality time and the kind of connection most women will want. Same problem we had that got us here to begin with. When we have talked about how things are going he has shared that he has hooked up with people when out of town at college reunions or when on travel. His happy place is just working, taking care of his kids, getting some low effort sex and being left alone otherwise. I've opted out of being his low effort easy access orfice and am enjoying having companionship and conversation and others things that I need while dating and being seen as a whole interesting fun human to hang out with again. I've actually tried to help give him advice to help him out on the dating scene but women and relationships are clearly not a priority to him beyond fulfilling a functional physical need periodically.




Ummm…what? All of this sounds miserable. It’s good you’re keeping this from your kids, though. Yikes.
Anonymous
Post 07/19/2023 20:22     Subject: Open Marriage with kids
OP, you should get help. It’s mental illness, not a further evolved philosophy.