Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Probable multiple reasons, and they’re not exclusive.

People are afraid of something that challenges them and some may not have the background to argue back. That’s on believers.

Atheists’ own behavior can be off-putting and unlikable. Some atheists are great. But if we had to judge atheists on the basis of DCUM’s atheists who insist on insulting believers with words like “myth” and “fairy tale,” who impersonate other posters, who always have to have the last word, or who claim to be expert on Aquinas on the basis of what they’ve read on some atheist website, well that isn’t going to go well either.

You type all of these words saying how you don’t like atheists. Over and over and over again you say it. Over and over and over again you use ad hominem. But atheists never say they don’t like you. The atheists never resort to ad hominem.

Why do you think that is?

I’ll tell you why I think it is if you want.

With due respect, I'm an atheist and I really don't like her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Probable multiple reasons, and they’re not exclusive.

People are afraid of something that challenges them and some may not have the background to argue back. That’s on believers.

Atheists’ own behavior can be off-putting and unlikable. Some atheists are great. But if we had to judge atheists on the basis of DCUM’s atheists who insist on insulting believers with words like “myth” and “fairy tale,” who impersonate other posters, who always have to have the last word, or who claim to be expert on Aquinas on the basis of what they’ve read on some atheist website, well that isn’t going to go well either.

You type all of these words saying how you don’t like atheists. Over and over and over again you say it. Over and over and over again you use ad hominem. But atheists never say they don’t like you. The atheists never resort to ad hominem.

Why do you think that is?

I’ll tell you why I think it is if you want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Probable multiple reasons, and they’re not exclusive.

People are afraid of something that challenges them and some may not have the background to argue back. That’s on believers.

Atheists’ own behavior can be off-putting and unlikable. Some atheists are great. But if we had to judge atheists on the basis of DCUM’s atheists who insist on insulting believers with words like “myth” and “fairy tale,” who impersonate other posters, who always have to have the last word, or who claim to be expert on Aquinas on the basis of what they’ve read on some atheist website, well that isn’t going to go well either.

You type all of these words saying how you don’t like atheists. Over and over and over again you say it. Over and over and over again you use ad hominem. But atheists never say they don’t like you. The atheists never resort to ad hominem.

Why do you think that is?

I’ll tell you why I think it is if you want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Probable multiple reasons, and they’re not exclusive.

People are afraid of something that challenges them and some may not have the background to argue back. That’s on believers.

Atheists’ own behavior can be off-putting and unlikable. Some atheists are great. But if we had to judge atheists on the basis of DCUM’s atheists who insist on insulting believers with words like “myth” and “fairy tale,” who impersonate other posters, who always have to have the last word, or who claim to be expert on Aquinas on the basis of what they’ve read on some atheist website, well that isn’t going to go well either.

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Christian pp. Also agree! Keep your religion out of other peoples' lives.

+1 million. The other problem lies in the fact that there are many fundamentalists with some dangerous and harmful thought processes that infiltrate every area of their lives, and affects people around them even in subtle ways. The mindset of being favored by a god, by feeling morally superior, etc, is something that affects people even when they don't realize it does.

Not sure they feel favored by God, etc. The problem is their beliefs, namely that they take the Bible very literally and obsess about certain passages at the expense of others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Christian pp. Also agree! Keep your religion out of other peoples' lives.

+1 million. The other problem lies in the fact that there are many fundamentalists with some dangerous and harmful thought processes that infiltrate every area of their lives, and affects people around them even in subtle ways. The mindset of being favored by a god, by feeling morally superior, etc, is something that affects people even when they don't realize it does.

Not sure they feel favored by God, etc. The problem is their beliefs, namely that they take the Bible very literally and obsess about certain passages at the expense of others.

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Christian pp. Also agree! Keep your religion out of other peoples' lives.

+1 million. The other problem lies in the fact that there are many fundamentalists with some dangerous and harmful thought processes that infiltrate every area of their lives, and affects people around them even in subtle ways. The mindset of being favored by a god, by feeling morally superior, etc, is something that affects people even when they don't realize it does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Christian pp. Also agree! Keep your religion out of other peoples' lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

I hope you guys understand how weak an argument that is: that the words don’t mean what they say.

Why can’t that be applied to any passage?

And why would God’s word be so unclear, and his intent so different from the words?

Have you ever taken an English lit course? Context is everything. You stripping something out of its context is going to lead you astray.

Lol. Yes I have taken plenty of literature courses and I don't think you ever have because context starts with the words themselves, always. You can't just say "context" and claim it means something totally opposite of the words themselves.

Hamlet is about a spaceship by that standard. And Mein Kampf about kindness to all men.

Lit teacher here (and not religious)

No, context is about where the words reside in relation to a larger text. This explanation falls very, very flat.

But you are not demonstrating the larger text! Just claiming it does so.

It starts with the words, and then the burden is on showing the “context”.

You can’t just yell “context “! Are you really a lit teacher? Would you accept that from your students? That would shock me.

DP. For the record, a Christian poster pointed out that the anti-women cites were from Paul or the Old Testament, not from Jesus, so they in no way have the same status.

I think part of the problem here is that it others don’t trust you to argue in good faith. A Jewish poster referred to centuries of religious interpretation, but she didn’t give you details, and I don’t blame her given how you ignored the Christian poster.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.