Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

At some point they need to enter something closer to the real world

NP - is the real world 6x week drinking, lecture style classrooms, being in a community the size of a small city? What about the UMD experience is better prep for the real world than going to a smaller school?

The real world is having to fend for yourself when no body cares whether or not you even exist.

+1

I'm sorry that's been your experience. I don't think life or work has to be that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

At some point they need to enter something closer to the real world

NP - is the real world 6x week drinking, lecture style classrooms, being in a community the size of a small city? What about the UMD experience is better prep for the real world than going to a smaller school?

The real world is having to fend for yourself when no body cares whether or not you even exist.

Anonymous wrote:Lol, yes, of course. The school is large but of course you will also take tons of courses with small class sizes and direct attention from a professor. Pretty much all your upper level classes in your major, for instance.

Also, all these large state schools have honors programs. All of them. In most you will get an honors advisor and many have thesis options where you get a thesis advisor (my university had this, I spent my junior year writing a thesis to graduate with honors and developed a close relationship with my thesis advisor that I still maintain today, 20 years later).

I find it moderately shocking that OP and others may not understand this. I mean, some elite schools are huge with huge 100-level sections, but of course students also get 1:1 attention and lots of opportunities for small seminars, labs, etc. Going to a school like Michigan, Wisconsin, UVA, UCSD, etc. is really not that different. Still very high caliber of students, phenomenal professors (sometimes even better than at an Ivy or SLAC depending on course of study) as well as lots of supports in place, especially for honors students or students in certain majors.

Also, some Ivies and elite SLACs have reputations for partying that rival even the most notorious state university. I have friends who went to Dartmouth, Princeton, and others who definitely did more partying, more drugs, more binge drinking, than I have ever done. Some of them were academic, too, but some were not.

This just seems like a really naive question. Have you met people? Ever worked with someone from one of these state universities? It would take so little life experience to dispel these presumptions.

OP- it can be an uncomfortable conversation. Maybe the way the question was formulated was a little obnoxious but the point was to get a sense of how much interaction there really is, typically, when you go to a very large state school. I’ve heard mixed things over the years. There has to be some trade off.

Lol, yes, of course. The school is large but of course you will also take tons of courses with small class sizes and direct attention from a professor. Pretty much all your upper level classes in your major, for instance.

Also, all these large state schools have honors programs. All of them. In most you will get an honors advisor and many have thesis options where you get a thesis advisor (my university had this, I spent my junior year writing a thesis to graduate with honors and developed a close relationship with my thesis advisor that I still maintain today, 20 years later).

I find it moderately shocking that OP and others may not understand this. I mean, some elite schools are huge with huge 100-level sections, but of course students also get 1:1 attention and lots of opportunities for small seminars, labs, etc. Going to a school like Michigan, Wisconsin, UVA, UCSD, etc. is really not that different. Still very high caliber of students, phenomenal professors (sometimes even better than at an Ivy or SLAC depending on course of study) as well as lots of supports in place, especially for honors students or students in certain majors.

Also, some Ivies and elite SLACs have reputations for partying that rival even the most notorious state university. I have friends who went to Dartmouth, Princeton, and others who definitely did more partying, more drugs, more binge drinking, than I have ever done. Some of them were academic, too, but some were not.

This just seems like a really naive question. Have you met people? Ever worked with someone from one of these state universities? It would take so little life experience to dispel these presumptions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

At some point they need to enter something closer to the real world

NP - is the real world 6x week drinking, lecture style classrooms, being in a community the size of a small city? What about the UMD experience is better prep for the real world than going to a smaller school?

The real world is having to fend for yourself when no body cares whether or not you even exist.

But once again, in the "real world" one can choose to work for a smaller company (ie Not Google or Microsoft or Facebook, etc) where you actually have mentors and bosses who care about nurturing you and helping you develop into a top performer. I've worked for both places and the smaller companies are definately better at helping your grow.

I also think a small school resembles the real world in that in the real world one tends to work with a small group of people, who you didn’t necessarily pick, year after year. As opposed to a new cast of characters every semester.

I think I have a unique perspective, as I spent the first two years of college at a small elite private college (I won't name it but it has been mentioned on this thread several times) and then transferred to a Big 10 school that has also been mentioned, so I saw both up close. I transferred because I wanted to major in an area that my small school did not have a department in. I could have designed an independent study program at my first college, but I think there is real value in being part of a community all studying the same thing, so I transferred to a school that had a spectacular department.

It was great being at a small school the first two years, because the classes were small and there was lots of opportunity for direct student/teacher contact. It was nurturing in a way that was helpful to me, a small-town girl living away from home for the first time. But by the end of my sophomore year I was much more independent, and didn't need the hand-holding. At my Big 10 school, there was much more breadth of classes. Since I was transferring as an upperclassman, I went directly into seminars and upper level classes, so I kind of missed the big gut classes that there undoubtedly are in a large school. I definitely had to be more proactive and self-directed about making contact with professors and advocating for myself at my Big 10 school, just because there are so many more students, but I think that was kind of a good experience. And after college, because there were so many grads from my Big 10 school, I was able to tap into a huge network professionally.

So there are pros and cons of both types of school, it really depends on your student and what you want out of your college experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

At some point they need to enter something closer to the real world

NP - is the real world 6x week drinking, lecture style classrooms, being in a community the size of a small city? What about the UMD experience is better prep for the real world than going to a smaller school?

The real world is having to fend for yourself when no body cares whether or not you even exist.

But once again, in the "real world" one can choose to work for a smaller company (ie Not Google or Microsoft or Facebook, etc) where you actually have mentors and bosses who care about nurturing you and helping you develop into a top performer. I've worked for both places and the smaller companies are definately better at helping your grow.

Of course students at big state universities study, learn and make valuable contacts. My UVA student majored in the same subject I did at a prestigious SLAC. His experience was FAR better than mine. The reading requirements were better, the professors FAR better, the many seminars were demanding yet thoughtful and his contacts and letters of recommendation were superior to mine. Look at all the state universities on this list of 30 feeders to the Rhodes Scholar program. UVA has had 55 Rhodes Scholarship winners. That’s the most of any college or university in the South, the eighth most of any school overall, and the third most of any non-Ivy League university. https://www.collegevaluesonline.com/features/colleges-future-rhodes-scholars/

Learning to interact with adults as an adult, how to handle conflict, research and internship opportunities to apply what they learned.

All of this happens for kids at LACs. It's not an either or proposition.

Anonymous wrote:My DH went to Michigan and his seminar group was invited to dinner at a professor’s home. That nene happened as far as I know at my much smaller private university.

Yes, it does happen at smaller universities as well. My school had 5K undergrads. I routinely went to my professor's homes for gatherings. Even had one prof whom I house sat/animal sat for during thanksgiving/spring breaks several times.

This can happen at both small and large universities, but I actually think it's more prevalent at smaller universities.

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

At the HS level, as parents, we could still have influence over academics. They are still kids.

But college? That's a do it yourself thing. We invested in the early years to give them the foundation of how to succeed in academics. We can't attend college for them. IMO, class work at the college level is helpful to explain concepts but it's the other experiences that are far more valuable. Learning to interact with adults as an adult, how to handle conflict, research and internship opportunities to apply what they learned.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

At some point they need to enter something closer to the real world

NP - is the real world 6x week drinking, lecture style classrooms, being in a community the size of a small city? What about the UMD experience is better prep for the real world than going to a smaller school?

The real world is having to fend for yourself when no body cares whether or not you even exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

At some point they need to enter something closer to the real world

NP - is the real world 6x week drinking, lecture style classrooms, being in a community the size of a small city? What about the UMD experience is better prep for the real world than going to a smaller school?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whether Emory University or Williams College offers the better education depends upon the particular student and the particular course of study. My first thought is that the intellectual firepower is greater at Emory, but that the well rounded student is more prevalent at athletically inclined Williams College.

Kids I know heading to Emory this year would NEVER get into Williams.

Williams had a 30% acceptance rate for ED. Does not seem so selective.

The ED pool is full of pre-vetted recruited athletes who are all academically qualified. Williams is very selective and its hard numbers put them right in the middle of the Ivies.

Pretty much all top 25 privates have the same test score profile nowadays.

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

At some point they need to enter something closer to the real world