Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

The MCPD can be professional and get over their hurt feelings caused by tweets that aren't even about them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

Anonymous wrote: Some of what is being proposed are safety issues, such as broken tail lights. Cops should alert drivers if their vehicle is a safety hazard. Window tinting is not an issue and therefore shouldn’t be illegal. Rather than telling cops to stop pulling people over, change the laws to reflect when to pull over and what happens when someone is pulled over. To ignore existing laws will lead to chaos as some will be breaking the laws and others will be abiding by the law. It’s either one or the other and apply equally to all.

They are already, currently, ignoring existing laws. Everyone speeds (including police officers). Everyone is on their phones (including police officers). Everyone rolls right through stop signs and rights on red (including police officers).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

Some of what is being proposed are safety issues, such as broken tail lights. Cops should alert drivers if their vehicle is a safety hazard. Window tinting is not an issue and therefore shouldn’t be illegal. Rather than telling cops to stop pulling people over, change the laws to reflect when to pull over and what happens when someone is pulled over. To ignore existing laws will lead to chaos as some will be breaking the laws and others will be abiding by the law. It’s either one or the other and apply equally to all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-fatality-data-show-increased-traffic-fatalities-during-pandemic

Apparently, speeding and failure to wear a seatbelt are two big causes. Some of the very things that they want to stop enforcing.

Nope. The bill would prohibit traffic stops by Montgomery County police officers based solely on the suspected violation of the following traffic offenses under the Maryland Vehicle Law, related to:

• licensing and registration;
• certificate of title or insurance;
• window tinting;
• defective headlamp or taillight;
• illuminated license plate;
• minor obstructions, including, signs, posters, and other nontransparent materials on the windshields

It would not prohibit enforcement of speeding or failure to wear a seatbelt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-fatality-data-show-increased-traffic-fatalities-during-pandemic

Apparently, speeding and failure to wear a seatbelt are two big causes. Some of the very things that they want to stop enforcing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

At minimum, it acknowledges that there is a problem, which is better than denying that there is a problem.

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.