Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, DH tells them them The Plan. But Also, realize that not all plans end up happening the way you want them to. No matter how hard you want something. Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. For my daughter, I knew delivering could likely be the most serious medical event she had experienced. I sure was going to be near-enough, so that if she wanted my comfort, I would be there. If she didn't that was ok too. I can wait.

Realize how wonderful it it that your family and little one is loved, loved before they even arrive. Don't be so nasty that you don't understand, that their love, is coming from a good place.

Just stop it. You keep posting and throwing little digs at the OP. There is nothing nasty about her post. She and her husband politely told her in laws their plan and the in laws are the ones being nasty trying to ignore and disrespect their adult children’s wishes. They are not coming from a place of love, they are coming from a place of putting their wants over someone else’s need. This isn’t love, it’s selfishness.

Sincere question here on the bolded....is there anything that a person (IL or otherwise) can do that asks questions or offers a compromise that would not be viewed as "disrespecting" wishes and being nasty?

To be clear, I agree that OP was not nasty in her post. But I really don't understand the POV that anything other than pure acquiesce/acceptance is necessarily disrespect or violating boundaries. Do you guys never push back or question a choice made by other people in your life?

When someone clearly states that I’m not invited somewhere then yes I accept it. Pushing back or seeking a compromise is EXACTLY what being pushy and selfish means. They’ve told you no, you aren’t owed a compromise of less time than you demanded but more than they offered. Let them be.

So how about this (and yes I know I am inventing facts that OP never said. I am trying to figure out where the line on "pushy and selfish" is for some of you.)

OP/DH: We are not having anyone over to see the baby for the first two months. We want to get through the adjustment and limit potential exposure to viruses.

Grandparent: I see. How about we come by after you're home for a few days to drop off a lasagna. We'll wear masks and have a quick ten minute meeting with the baby and then take DC1 off your hands for a few hours and take him/her out to lunch and the park. We'll wear masks the whole time. Would that work for you?

Pushy, selfish, boundary violation?

NP. Nope, try reframing a bit and not saying “how about we come by” when you’ve just been told not to.

“Thank you for letting us know. If you get to a place where a meal would be welcome, we’d be happy to drop off a lasagna or something, and we’d be happy to wear masks and stay outside. Or if it would be helpful for us to pick up Larlo and take him to the park, just let us know.”

dp What you proposing is too much. I'm sure you watch everything you say just to make sure you don't offend anyone. Honestly, you sound exhausting and if I had to walk on eggshells and know that what ever I say is going to be taken so negatively than I would give up and quietly ghost you.

You do realize that a previous poster asked a “sincere question,” and then proceeded to push back on a different poster’s answer to that question? I, too, am answering a “sincere question.” You don’t have to like my answer, but if you don’t want to read responses to “sincere questions,” maybe…don’t read them.

And yes, I am very careful with my words and am very careful respecting other people’s boundaries, even when I do not understand or agree with them. I find people who test, push and try to talk other people out of their boundaries are the exhausting ones.

FWIW I am the poster who asked the sincere question, and not the poster you are responding to.

I don't view my original response as "pushing back", but rather seeking to understand better where some see "the line." I do see the line in a different place, and don't think an initial suggestion of an alternative to the initial "boundary" that still attempts to meet the underlying concerns as a problem.
But I also didn't, and wouldn't, accuse a postr of being exhausting or respond the way the PP did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, DH tells them them The Plan. But Also, realize that not all plans end up happening the way you want them to. No matter how hard you want something. Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. For my daughter, I knew delivering could likely be the most serious medical event she had experienced. I sure was going to be near-enough, so that if she wanted my comfort, I would be there. If she didn't that was ok too. I can wait.

Realize how wonderful it it that your family and little one is loved, loved before they even arrive. Don't be so nasty that you don't understand, that their love, is coming from a good place.

Just stop it. You keep posting and throwing little digs at the OP. There is nothing nasty about her post. She and her husband politely told her in laws their plan and the in laws are the ones being nasty trying to ignore and disrespect their adult children’s wishes. They are not coming from a place of love, they are coming from a place of putting their wants over someone else’s need. This isn’t love, it’s selfishness.

Sincere question here on the bolded....is there anything that a person (IL or otherwise) can do that asks questions or offers a compromise that would not be viewed as "disrespecting" wishes and being nasty?

To be clear, I agree that OP was not nasty in her post. But I really don't understand the POV that anything other than pure acquiesce/acceptance is necessarily disrespect or violating boundaries. Do you guys never push back or question a choice made by other people in your life?

When someone clearly states that I’m not invited somewhere then yes I accept it. Pushing back or seeking a compromise is EXACTLY what being pushy and selfish means. They’ve told you no, you aren’t owed a compromise of less time than you demanded but more than they offered. Let them be.

So how about this (and yes I know I am inventing facts that OP never said. I am trying to figure out where the line on "pushy and selfish" is for some of you.)

OP/DH: We are not having anyone over to see the baby for the first two months. We want to get through the adjustment and limit potential exposure to viruses.

Grandparent: I see. How about we come by after you're home for a few days to drop off a lasagna. We'll wear masks and have a quick ten minute meeting with the baby and then take DC1 off your hands for a few hours and take him/her out to lunch and the park. We'll wear masks the whole time. Would that work for you?

Pushy, selfish, boundary violation?

NP. Nope, try reframing a bit and not saying “how about we come by” when you’ve just been told not to.

“Thank you for letting us know. If you get to a place where a meal would be welcome, we’d be happy to drop off a lasagna or something, and we’d be happy to wear masks and stay outside. Or if it would be helpful for us to pick up Larlo and take him to the park, just let us know.”

dp What you proposing is too much. I'm sure you watch everything you say just to make sure you don't offend anyone. Honestly, you sound exhausting and if I had to walk on eggshells and know that what ever I say is going to be taken so negatively than I would give up and quietly ghost you.

You do realize that a previous poster asked a “sincere question,” and then proceeded to push back on a different poster’s answer to that question? I, too, am answering a “sincere question.” You don’t have to like my answer, but if you don’t want to read responses to “sincere questions,” maybe…don’t read them.

And yes, I am very careful with my words and am very careful respecting other people’s boundaries, even when I do not understand or agree with them. I find people who test, push and try to talk other people out of their boundaries are the exhausting ones.

OP I agree with you! We did the same. You’re suddenly turning into a family of 3 and it takes time to get things in order. It takes time to sort out a routine and get to know the baby. If you want to nurse, you need the first few days/weeks to sort that out. Plus with the pandemic, some listen and some don’t and when we had our baby girl, I wasn’t ready to have someone give her covid because they disagreed with masking. All in all though, my in-laws just want to be guests and they come put their feet up and want to be hosted to and with a baby I knew that would have been difficult. I also had my own parents stay back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really want your kids to later say -grandma where were you when I was born? Granny says well honey I wasn’t there because I wasn’t welcome. Your mommy and daddy kept you away from me for months after you were born so I never knew you as a tiny baby.

Oh, look, emotional manipulation! Just like OP’s in-laws. Good one.

Seriously! What does it mean to even "know someone as a tiny baby?" The infant eats, shits, sleeps, cries, eats again. It's not like you're discussing your differing perspectives on Baudelaire's poems.

Wow! You are a very crude person, pp. My mother met my older dcearlier and was around her more than my second dc. They have a much closer relationship. My mom had to move so that's why she didn't see my younger dc. If you can't get that the infant represents a new member of the family to the grandparents than I don't think anyone can convince you not to take a hard line against them. I'm not suggesting like other people have said to expect the mom to wait on you hand and foot but, what is wrong with wanting to meet the baby and snuggle?

What a delicate flower you are

I guess I don't see babies the way you do---They represent more than what they are capable of doing or not doing. But clearly your emotional IQ is very low.

Sorry for you and anyone who has to deal with you!

Your baby is still just a shitting machine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP will be posting a year from now one of those every-other-day posts about how exhausted she is and how she has family nearby but they’re just awful people who won’t help out. You make your bed…

I will not. This is my third kid and I am well-aware of the challenges involved in parenting small children. None of our family is local. The answers on this thread are absurd, but I guess that’s what I get for crowd-sourcing a personal challenge with anonymous keyboard warriors.

Really insightful to see how many people think the comfort, wants, and needs of grandparents should trump the wishes of the parents/health of the newborn infant, particularly in this day and age.

Let me guess. You’re the one screaming fascist in the face of anyone who doesn’t agree on every point with you. In your world there’s no middle ground, no gray area, no empathy or understanding of other people’s experiences or opinions. You seek external validation but have no coping mechanism to deal with criticism.

God I wish you weren’t raising a future generation but, since you are, I only hope my kids are never around yours.

Op is not the dramatic one, pp, you are. Take it down a notch or two, you don’t have to start a Verona feud between your children because she disagrees with your extended family advice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP will be posting a year from now one of those every-other-day posts about how exhausted she is and how she has family nearby but they’re just awful people who won’t help out. You make your bed…

I will not. This is my third kid and I am well-aware of the challenges involved in parenting small children. None of our family is local. The answers on this thread are absurd, but I guess that’s what I get for crowd-sourcing a personal challenge with anonymous keyboard warriors.

Really insightful to see how many people think the comfort, wants, and needs of grandparents should trump the wishes of the parents/health of the newborn infant, particularly in this day and age.

Let me guess. You’re the one screaming fascist in the face of anyone who doesn’t agree on every point with you. In your world there’s no middle ground, no gray area, no empathy or understanding of other people’s experiences or opinions. You seek external validation but have no coping mechanism to deal with criticism.

God I wish you weren’t raising a future generation but, since you are, I only hope my kids are never around yours.

Wowzers!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, DH tells them them The Plan. But Also, realize that not all plans end up happening the way you want them to. No matter how hard you want something. Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. For my daughter, I knew delivering could likely be the most serious medical event she had experienced. I sure was going to be near-enough, so that if she wanted my comfort, I would be there. If she didn't that was ok too. I can wait.

Realize how wonderful it it that your family and little one is loved, loved before they even arrive. Don't be so nasty that you don't understand, that their love, is coming from a good place.

Just stop it. You keep posting and throwing little digs at the OP. There is nothing nasty about her post. She and her husband politely told her in laws their plan and the in laws are the ones being nasty trying to ignore and disrespect their adult children’s wishes. They are not coming from a place of love, they are coming from a place of putting their wants over someone else’s need. This isn’t love, it’s selfishness.

Sincere question here on the bolded....is there anything that a person (IL or otherwise) can do that asks questions or offers a compromise that would not be viewed as "disrespecting" wishes and being nasty?

To be clear, I agree that OP was not nasty in her post. But I really don't understand the POV that anything other than pure acquiesce/acceptance is necessarily disrespect or violating boundaries. Do you guys never push back or question a choice made by other people in your life?

When someone clearly states that I’m not invited somewhere then yes I accept it. Pushing back or seeking a compromise is EXACTLY what being pushy and selfish means. They’ve told you no, you aren’t owed a compromise of less time than you demanded but more than they offered. Let them be.

So how about this (and yes I know I am inventing facts that OP never said. I am trying to figure out where the line on "pushy and selfish" is for some of you.)

OP/DH: We are not having anyone over to see the baby for the first two months. We want to get through the adjustment and limit potential exposure to viruses.

Grandparent: I see. How about we come by after you're home for a few days to drop off a lasagna. We'll wear masks and have a quick ten minute meeting with the baby and then take DC1 off your hands for a few hours and take him/her out to lunch and the park. We'll wear masks the whole time. Would that work for you?

Pushy, selfish, boundary violation?

I’m perplexed at how you could possibly not see that this is obnoxious, rude and pushy. They told you no visitors fr two months. You proceed to completely ignore and blow past this because it’s not what you want. You immediately try to start negotiating to get yourself an invitation.

No means no. You need to accept that and not see it as a challenge to negotiate them toward your wants.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP will be posting a year from now one of those every-other-day posts about how exhausted she is and how she has family nearby but they’re just awful people who won’t help out. You make your bed…

I will not. This is my third kid and I am well-aware of the challenges involved in parenting small children. None of our family is local. The answers on this thread are absurd, but I guess that’s what I get for crowd-sourcing a personal challenge with anonymous keyboard warriors.

Really insightful to see how many people think the comfort, wants, and needs of grandparents should trump the wishes of the parents/health of the newborn infant, particularly in this day and age.

This is key. You already know that you don't have the family support so you don't count on it. Everyone here is assuming the very worst of family. You are seeing everything through a very negative and unkind light. If grandparents want to see and cuddle the grandbaby that is een as being "pushy" and "selfish" Why is that? And if someone dares gently ask you if they could come and meet their grandbaby ...to give the baby love that is seen as pushing boundaries. Even though for thousands of years people have been giving birth and welcoming babies with the support of their families.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that the families in any way impose on the new family and if they overstay their welcome or make more work for the new mom that is clearly wrong. But, there has to be a balance between pushing family related to your child and allowing them to push over you. Again, you are not the first person to give birth but, if you push people away expect them to want to stay away.

Why is it that so many people see family in an negative and unkind light? Could it be because many families have people in them who are unkind and inconsiderate?

When my first was born and we tried to impose reasonable boundaries (masking when holding baby and socializing outside on our lovely screened porch in beautiful spring weather after they decided to stop isolating - this was pre-vaccine Covid days), they went crazy and accused us of terrible things. They said we didn’t want them to know their grandchild, they said we were paranoid and insinuated we were stupid, they accused DH of trying to shut them out of his life. It was honestly traumatizing to be attacked so viciously and unfairly in the first few weeks after birth. It became clear that my MIL in particular had harbored a certain fantasy of how things would be when meeting her first grandchild, and we were allegedly robbing her of that by asking her to observe a few precautions. Again, this was pre-vaccine when the vast majority of people were still in full-on lockdown mode.

I cannot unseen what I learned about them as people during that period. We do what we can to facilitate their relationship with my son because it’s important to them and I believe family is important, but I will never forget what they did. And as we prepare for the birth of our second, we are very stressed about whether or how to impose boundaries around visits (they are not helpful when they come). Not everyone is a reasonable person, not even those who claim to be motivated by love.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP will be posting a year from now one of those every-other-day posts about how exhausted she is and how she has family nearby but they’re just awful people who won’t help out. You make your bed…

I will not. This is my third kid and I am well-aware of the challenges involved in parenting small children. None of our family is local. The answers on this thread are absurd, but I guess that’s what I get for crowd-sourcing a personal challenge with anonymous keyboard warriors.

Really insightful to see how many people think the comfort, wants, and needs of grandparents should trump the wishes of the parents/health of the newborn infant, particularly in this day and age.

Let me guess. You’re the one screaming fascist in the face of anyone who doesn’t agree on every point with you. In your world there’s no middle ground, no gray area, no empathy or understanding of other people’s experiences or opinions. You seek external validation but have no coping mechanism to deal with criticism.

God I wish you weren’t raising a future generation but, since you are, I only hope my kids are never around yours.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, DH tells them them The Plan. But Also, realize that not all plans end up happening the way you want them to. No matter how hard you want something. Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. For my daughter, I knew delivering could likely be the most serious medical event she had experienced. I sure was going to be near-enough, so that if she wanted my comfort, I would be there. If she didn't that was ok too. I can wait.

Realize how wonderful it it that your family and little one is loved, loved before they even arrive. Don't be so nasty that you don't understand, that their love, is coming from a good place.

Just stop it. You keep posting and throwing little digs at the OP. There is nothing nasty about her post. She and her husband politely told her in laws their plan and the in laws are the ones being nasty trying to ignore and disrespect their adult children’s wishes. They are not coming from a place of love, they are coming from a place of putting their wants over someone else’s need. This isn’t love, it’s selfishness.

Sincere question here on the bolded....is there anything that a person (IL or otherwise) can do that asks questions or offers a compromise that would not be viewed as "disrespecting" wishes and being nasty?

To be clear, I agree that OP was not nasty in her post. But I really don't understand the POV that anything other than pure acquiesce/acceptance is necessarily disrespect or violating boundaries. Do you guys never push back or question a choice made by other people in your life?

When someone clearly states that I’m not invited somewhere then yes I accept it. Pushing back or seeking a compromise is EXACTLY what being pushy and selfish means. They’ve told you no, you aren’t owed a compromise of less time than you demanded but more than they offered. Let them be.

So how about this (and yes I know I am inventing facts that OP never said. I am trying to figure out where the line on "pushy and selfish" is for some of you.)

OP/DH: We are not having anyone over to see the baby for the first two months. We want to get through the adjustment and limit potential exposure to viruses.

Grandparent: I see. How about we come by after you're home for a few days to drop off a lasagna. We'll wear masks and have a quick ten minute meeting with the baby and then take DC1 off your hands for a few hours and take him/her out to lunch and the park. We'll wear masks the whole time. Would that work for you?

Pushy, selfish, boundary violation?

NP. Nope, try reframing a bit and not saying “how about we come by” when you’ve just been told not to.

“Thank you for letting us know. If you get to a place where a meal would be welcome, we’d be happy to drop off a lasagna or something, and we’d be happy to wear masks and stay outside. Or if it would be helpful for us to pick up Larlo and take him to the park, just let us know.”

dp What you proposing is too much. I'm sure you watch everything you say just to make sure you don't offend anyone. Honestly, you sound exhausting and if I had to walk on eggshells and know that what ever I say is going to be taken so negatively than I would give up and quietly ghost you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really want your kids to later say -grandma where were you when I was born? Granny says well honey I wasn’t there because I wasn’t welcome. Your mommy and daddy kept you away from me for months after you were born so I never knew you as a tiny baby.

Oh, look, emotional manipulation! Just like OP’s in-laws. Good one.

Seriously! What does it mean to even "know someone as a tiny baby?" The infant eats, shits, sleeps, cries, eats again. It's not like you're discussing your differing perspectives on Baudelaire's poems.

Wow! You are a very crude person, pp. My mother met my older dcearlier and was around her more than my second dc. They have a much closer relationship. My mom had to move so that's why she didn't see my younger dc. If you can't get that the infant represents a new member of the family to the grandparents than I don't think anyone can convince you not to take a hard line against them. I'm not suggesting like other people have said to expect the mom to wait on you hand and foot but, what is wrong with wanting to meet the baby and snuggle?

What a delicate flower you are

I guess I don't see babies the way you do---They represent more than what they are capable of doing or not doing. But clearly your emotional IQ is very low.

Sorry for you and anyone who has to deal with you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP will be posting a year from now one of those every-other-day posts about how exhausted she is and how she has family nearby but they’re just awful people who won’t help out. You make your bed…

I will not. This is my third kid and I am well-aware of the challenges involved in parenting small children. None of our family is local. The answers on this thread are absurd, but I guess that’s what I get for crowd-sourcing a personal challenge with anonymous keyboard warriors.

Really insightful to see how many people think the comfort, wants, and needs of grandparents should trump the wishes of the parents/health of the newborn infant, particularly in this day and age.

This is key. You already know that you don't have the family support so you don't count on it. Everyone here is assuming the very worst of family. You are seeing everything through a very negative and unkind light. If grandparents want to see and cuddle the grandbaby that is een as being "pushy" and "selfish" Why is that? And if someone dares gently ask you if they could come and meet their grandbaby ...to give the baby love that is seen as pushing boundaries. Even though for thousands of years people have been giving birth and welcoming babies with the support of their families.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that the families in any way impose on the new family and if they overstay their welcome or make more work for the new mom that is clearly wrong. But, there has to be a balance between pushing family related to your child and allowing them to push over you. Again, you are not the first person to give birth but, if you push people away expect them to want to stay away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, DH tells them them The Plan. But Also, realize that not all plans end up happening the way you want them to. No matter how hard you want something. Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. For my daughter, I knew delivering could likely be the most serious medical event she had experienced. I sure was going to be near-enough, so that if she wanted my comfort, I would be there. If she didn't that was ok too. I can wait.

Realize how wonderful it it that your family and little one is loved, loved before they even arrive. Don't be so nasty that you don't understand, that their love, is coming from a good place.

Just stop it. You keep posting and throwing little digs at the OP. There is nothing nasty about her post. She and her husband politely told her in laws their plan and the in laws are the ones being nasty trying to ignore and disrespect their adult children’s wishes. They are not coming from a place of love, they are coming from a place of putting their wants over someone else’s need. This isn’t love, it’s selfishness.

Sincere question here on the bolded....is there anything that a person (IL or otherwise) can do that asks questions or offers a compromise that would not be viewed as "disrespecting" wishes and being nasty?

To be clear, I agree that OP was not nasty in her post. But I really don't understand the POV that anything other than pure acquiesce/acceptance is necessarily disrespect or violating boundaries. Do you guys never push back or question a choice made by other people in your life?

When someone clearly states that I’m not invited somewhere then yes I accept it. Pushing back or seeking a compromise is EXACTLY what being pushy and selfish means. They’ve told you no, you aren’t owed a compromise of less time than you demanded but more than they offered. Let them be.

So how about this (and yes I know I am inventing facts that OP never said. I am trying to figure out where the line on "pushy and selfish" is for some of you.)

OP/DH: We are not having anyone over to see the baby for the first two months. We want to get through the adjustment and limit potential exposure to viruses.

Grandparent: I see. How about we come by after you're home for a few days to drop off a lasagna. We'll wear masks and have a quick ten minute meeting with the baby and then take DC1 off your hands for a few hours and take him/her out to lunch and the park. We'll wear masks the whole time. Would that work for you?

Pushy, selfish, boundary violation?

NP. Nope, try reframing a bit and not saying “how about we come by” when you’ve just been told not to.

“Thank you for letting us know. If you get to a place where a meal would be welcome, we’d be happy to drop off a lasagna or something, and we’d be happy to wear masks and stay outside. Or if it would be helpful for us to pick up Larlo and take him to the park, just let us know.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really want your kids to later say -grandma where were you when I was born? Granny says well honey I wasn’t there because I wasn’t welcome. Your mommy and daddy kept you away from me for months after you were born so I never knew you as a tiny baby.

Oh, look, emotional manipulation! Just like OP’s in-laws. Good one.

Seriously! What does it mean to even "know someone as a tiny baby?" The infant eats, shits, sleeps, cries, eats again. It's not like you're discussing your differing perspectives on Baudelaire's poems.

Wow! You are a very crude person, pp. My mother met my older dcearlier and was around her more than my second dc. They have a much closer relationship. My mom had to move so that's why she didn't see my younger dc. If you can't get that the infant represents a new member of the family to the grandparents than I don't think anyone can convince you not to take a hard line against them. I'm not suggesting like other people have said to expect the mom to wait on you hand and foot but, what is wrong with wanting to meet the baby and snuggle?

What a delicate flower you are

I get not wanting anyone to stay with you for the first two months (my family is local so I never had to deal with that) but that doesn't sound like the case here. Can you at least see them outside at a distance? Or let them peek into the window to see the baby? There has to be some kind of compromise--they just want to see the baby.