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Anonymous wrote:I have a much younger sister in her early thirties and she and nearly all of her friends are SAHM’s to men working good professional jobs. Looking at the housing turnover in my neighborhood this seems to be the case there too. So I’m not sure if your theory is accurate.

+1. A man making really good money doesn't care if his wife makes money. He is looking for a woman who will be a great mother to his children and build a legacy. A tale as old as time.

+1

It's funny listening to women tell men about what they are looking for in a woman. Yes, many younger guys seek out women who have a decent income. They do this because most of these guys are broke. They are simply being practical. But guys don't care about how smart you are or if you're educated. And when guys have money, it's all about looks and personality.

I don’t know what investment you have in this narrative, but it’s not true. And you clearly are old and don’t know young men. We are living in a dual income society, even at the top. Young men want and need peers so they come out on top.

The older male partners at my firm all have SAH wives, and I had a higher HHI than them, even before my husband made partner. It’s awkward to be richer than your bosses, and young men see the writing on the wall and don’t want to live like that.

Lady, you have no idea what you are talking about. I couldn't imagine telling a woman about what women really want . Your little world obviously revolves around striver types at law firms whose main goal in life is to make as much money as possible. Those people are in no way representative of guys in general.

We aren't talking about guys in general. Most guys are losers who will never amount to much. The guys with the high earning wives are also high earning themselves. What are your deep insights into those particular pairings? Because you seem totally out of touch and clueless with those types of couples.

In fact it’s the lower earning guys that need the second income for life to be comfortable. The highest earning guys prioritize other things since money is no longer an issue.

How much money do you have to make for money to “no longer be an issue”? The biglaw associates I have known all still prioritized a spouse with an income.

I don’t know whether you are the same or different posters but a poster keeps insinuating that whoever says they don’t care about money are older. I actually think you are too young if you are talking about law associates. It is true that assortive mating means highly educated high income potential men may marry similar women of education status.

The clincher comes in when the children come. Suddenly all the women law associates start dropping out and you find more highly educated SAHMs. Two people making 200000 need the income for a UMC life. Once a man starts making 500k that consideration drops away. The woman can have that fancy degree as a status symbol but income is irrelevant. And if the lady is hideous it doesn’t matter how many degrees she has or money. It’s just the way of the world.

Actually, someone whose peers are biglaw associates are exactly the relevant age group to understand what is going on "now." The commenter who is 41 is probably married, divorced, or a "time waster" single old guy who is still irrelevant to the question at hand about dating trends.

What is going on now has already been explained. They meet like and marry like and once the children come and the incomes reach a certain level everything changes. Come back in ten years when some of those law associates have become law partners and see how many women are left.

Sure but that’s answering a question that isn’t being asked. You’re answering the question “do men who have reached a successful midcareer care if their wives continue to work?” And sure, that’s a no. But it’s not relevant to mate selection in the first place.

There’s a lot of blather over what confident and successful men want. The beginning post talked about high income earning men wanting high income earning ladies. College and profession is a status symbol, it takes place of olden times when families married each other based on the family rank or noble status. Once that’s met if the guy is successful earning potential is not considered. Unfortunately looks and getting along are more important. Which runs contrary to the whole they care about income thing. They don’t, especially if they earn a lot. It really doesn’t matter if it’s an English literature degree from Harvard or an English major from Baylor, or a medical degree from John Hopkins or a Physician assistant. It’s just one check mark. High income potential is not a major consideration, and the demands of high income jobs actually detract. That’s why women law partners are either divorced or mostly single.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a much younger sister in her early thirties and she and nearly all of her friends are SAHM’s to men working good professional jobs. Looking at the housing turnover in my neighborhood this seems to be the case there too. So I’m not sure if your theory is accurate.

+1. A man making really good money doesn't care if his wife makes money. He is looking for a woman who will be a great mother to his children and build a legacy. A tale as old as time.

+1

It's funny listening to women tell men about what they are looking for in a woman. Yes, many younger guys seek out women who have a decent income. They do this because most of these guys are broke. They are simply being practical. But guys don't care about how smart you are or if you're educated. And when guys have money, it's all about looks and personality.

I don’t know what investment you have in this narrative, but it’s not true. And you clearly are old and don’t know young men. We are living in a dual income society, even at the top. Young men want and need peers so they come out on top.

The older male partners at my firm all have SAH wives, and I had a higher HHI than them, even before my husband made partner. It’s awkward to be richer than your bosses, and young men see the writing on the wall and don’t want to live like that.

Lady, you have no idea what you are talking about. I couldn't imagine telling a woman about what women really want . Your little world obviously revolves around striver types at law firms whose main goal in life is to make as much money as possible. Those people are in no way representative of guys in general.

We aren't talking about guys in general. Most guys are losers who will never amount to much. The guys with the high earning wives are also high earning themselves. What are your deep insights into those particular pairings? Because you seem totally out of touch and clueless with those types of couples.

Higher earning guys don't really care about your career or how much money you make. Guys are not impressed with how smart you think you are or your dumb job. When women brag about these things, it's a red flag. I think you are trying to draw conclusions from your little law firm that just aren't that accurate.

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Anonymous wrote:I have a much younger sister in her early thirties and she and nearly all of her friends are SAHM’s to men working good professional jobs. Looking at the housing turnover in my neighborhood this seems to be the case there too. So I’m not sure if your theory is accurate.

+1. A man making really good money doesn't care if his wife makes money. He is looking for a woman who will be a great mother to his children and build a legacy. A tale as old as time.

+1

It's funny listening to women tell men about what they are looking for in a woman. Yes, many younger guys seek out women who have a decent income. They do this because most of these guys are broke. They are simply being practical. But guys don't care about how smart you are or if you're educated. And when guys have money, it's all about looks and personality.

I don’t know what investment you have in this narrative, but it’s not true. And you clearly are old and don’t know young men. We are living in a dual income society, even at the top. Young men want and need peers so they come out on top.

The older male partners at my firm all have SAH wives, and I had a higher HHI than them, even before my husband made partner. It’s awkward to be richer than your bosses, and young men see the writing on the wall and don’t want to live like that.

Lady, you have no idea what you are talking about. I couldn't imagine telling a woman about what women really want . Your little world obviously revolves around striver types at law firms whose main goal in life is to make as much money as possible. Those people are in no way representative of guys in general.

We aren't talking about guys in general. Most guys are losers who will never amount to much. The guys with the high earning wives are also high earning themselves. What are your deep insights into those particular pairings? Because you seem totally out of touch and clueless with those types of couples.

In fact it’s the lower earning guys that need the second income for life to be comfortable. The highest earning guys prioritize other things since money is no longer an issue.

How much money do you have to make for money to “no longer be an issue”? The biglaw associates I have known all still prioritized a spouse with an income.

I don’t know whether you are the same or different posters but a poster keeps insinuating that whoever says they don’t care about money are older. I actually think you are too young if you are talking about law associates. It is true that assortive mating means highly educated high income potential men may marry similar women of education status.

The clincher comes in when the children come. Suddenly all the women law associates start dropping out and you find more highly educated SAHMs. Two people making 200000 need the income for a UMC life. Once a man starts making 500k that consideration drops away. The woman can have that fancy degree as a status symbol but income is irrelevant. And if the lady is hideous it doesn’t matter how many degrees she has or money. It’s just the way of the world.

Actually, someone whose peers are biglaw associates are exactly the relevant age group to understand what is going on "now." The commenter who is 41 is probably married, divorced, or a "time waster" single old guy who is still irrelevant to the question at hand about dating trends.

What is going on now has already been explained. They meet like and marry like and once the children come and the incomes reach a certain level everything changes. Come back in ten years when some of those law associates have become law partners and see how many women are left.

Sure but that’s answering a question that isn’t being asked. You’re answering the question “do men who have reached a successful midcareer care if their wives continue to work?” And sure, that’s a no. But it’s not relevant to mate selection in the first place.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its slightly different -- high earning, well educated men want women with similar levels of education. They don't want an undereducated (relatively speaking) woman to have children with and to raise their children. This means highly educated men marry highly educated women, who, not surprisingly, often end up in well paying careers. So, it's the education that really matters, not the high salary. HLS big law partners are going to marry similarly educated women, who may also end up in big law and earn $$$, but who often end up in lower paid positions (e.g., at NGOs, fed govt, etc.) after kids due to the time demands. The SAHMs who never end up going back are not the ones with JDs from HLS or PhDs from Chicago...

This. It’s also about marrying someone with self-confidence who believes they have something to contribute to the world. I think the self-confidence is key to being able to project yourself into a public role. It’s not that nurturing a family isn’t important. But it doesn’t require you to deal with a public role and be accountable to people in a public capacity. That can be very nerve wracking for some people.

TLDR; confident men go for confident women. That usually translates as some parity in education or career.

And a lot of umc parenting nowadays requires the mom to have awareness of certain things and not be out of that world. Look at applying to college, for example . A mom who went to an Ivy and, say, works at a nonprofit after leaving Wall Street has the awareness and is current and can help and has the time and can help her kid talk to people in her network who went to different schools. Versus your sahm who never went back and never had a career or impressive education.

Non profit is not earning money is she. Very different from the original claim of two big earning jobs and having the money to outsource everything else.

She's also not staying home letting her spouse be the sole breadwinner. She's educated, employed, and has a lot of potential. She's not just hot and sweet, which is all that matters supposedly to a few people chiming in on what men really want. They think it's just a coincidence she is also Ivy educated and the man gave not a thought in the world about her values and background.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its slightly different -- high earning, well educated men want women with similar levels of education. They don't want an undereducated (relatively speaking) woman to have children with and to raise their children. This means highly educated men marry highly educated women, who, not surprisingly, often end up in well paying careers. So, it's the education that really matters, not the high salary. HLS big law partners are going to marry similarly educated women, who may also end up in big law and earn $$$, but who often end up in lower paid positions (e.g., at NGOs, fed govt, etc.) after kids due to the time demands. The SAHMs who never end up going back are not the ones with JDs from HLS or PhDs from Chicago...

This. It’s also about marrying someone with self-confidence who believes they have something to contribute to the world. I think the self-confidence is key to being able to project yourself into a public role. It’s not that nurturing a family isn’t important. But it doesn’t require you to deal with a public role and be accountable to people in a public capacity. That can be very nerve wracking for some people.

TLDR; confident men go for confident women. That usually translates as some parity in education or career.

And a lot of umc parenting nowadays requires the mom to have awareness of certain things and not be out of that world. Look at applying to college, for example . A mom who went to an Ivy and, say, works at a nonprofit after leaving Wall Street has the awareness and is current and can help and has the time and can help her kid talk to people in her network who went to different schools. Versus your sahm who never went back and never had a career or impressive education.

Non profit is not earning money is she. Very different from the original claim of two big earning jobs and having the money to outsource everything else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a much younger sister in her early thirties and she and nearly all of her friends are SAHM’s to men working good professional jobs. Looking at the housing turnover in my neighborhood this seems to be the case there too. So I’m not sure if your theory is accurate.

+1. A man making really good money doesn't care if his wife makes money. He is looking for a woman who will be a great mother to his children and build a legacy. A tale as old as time.

+1

It's funny listening to women tell men about what they are looking for in a woman. Yes, many younger guys seek out women who have a decent income. They do this because most of these guys are broke. They are simply being practical. But guys don't care about how smart you are or if you're educated. And when guys have money, it's all about looks and personality.

I don’t know what investment you have in this narrative, but it’s not true. And you clearly are old and don’t know young men. We are living in a dual income society, even at the top. Young men want and need peers so they come out on top.

The older male partners at my firm all have SAH wives, and I had a higher HHI than them, even before my husband made partner. It’s awkward to be richer than your bosses, and young men see the writing on the wall and don’t want to live like that.

Lady, you have no idea what you are talking about. I couldn't imagine telling a woman about what women really want . Your little world obviously revolves around striver types at law firms whose main goal in life is to make as much money as possible. Those people are in no way representative of guys in general.

We aren't talking about guys in general. Most guys are losers who will never amount to much. The guys with the high earning wives are also high earning themselves. What are your deep insights into those particular pairings? Because you seem totally out of touch and clueless with those types of couples.

In fact it’s the lower earning guys that need the second income for life to be comfortable. The highest earning guys prioritize other things since money is no longer an issue.

How much money do you have to make for money to “no longer be an issue”? The biglaw associates I have known all still prioritized a spouse with an income.

I don’t know whether you are the same or different posters but a poster keeps insinuating that whoever says they don’t care about money are older. I actually think you are too young if you are talking about law associates. It is true that assortive mating means highly educated high income potential men may marry similar women of education status.

The clincher comes in when the children come. Suddenly all the women law associates start dropping out and you find more highly educated SAHMs. Two people making 200000 need the income for a UMC life. Once a man starts making 500k that consideration drops away. The woman can have that fancy degree as a status symbol but income is irrelevant. And if the lady is hideous it doesn’t matter how many degrees she has or money. It’s just the way of the world.

Actually, someone whose peers are biglaw associates are exactly the relevant age group to understand what is going on "now." The commenter who is 41 is probably married, divorced, or a "time waster" single old guy who is still irrelevant to the question at hand about dating trends.

What is going on now has already been explained. They meet like and marry like and once the children come and the incomes reach a certain level everything changes. Come back in ten years when some of those law associates have become law partners and see how many women are left.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a guy who dated college girls in college, waitresses when I was a bartender, beach bunnies when I spent a year surfing, and then law students when I was in law school. Why did I marry the law student? She was hot, smart, and kind. But a poor student at the time, just like me. Her future income potential never entered my mind, it was more like my wild days were over and it was time to settle down.

You are 70 years old, and have been out of the dating world for a long time.

Uh... I'm 41

How much do you make/net worth?

Nothing crazy. Together we make about 400k, which is of course huge for most people, but not big law partner money. My wife makes a little more than me. I can’t say that I am happier now then when we had nothing. More money, more stress, less freedom.

Sorry that's not really a lot of money. Like marries like. You sound average married to another average person.

And that’s an example of someone who needs an earning wife to support the lifestyle. Once you start earning above 500k the woman working that stressful job detracts from family life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its slightly different -- high earning, well educated men want women with similar levels of education. They don't want an undereducated (relatively speaking) woman to have children with and to raise their children. This means highly educated men marry highly educated women, who, not surprisingly, often end up in well paying careers. So, it's the education that really matters, not the high salary. HLS big law partners are going to marry similarly educated women, who may also end up in big law and earn $$$, but who often end up in lower paid positions (e.g., at NGOs, fed govt, etc.) after kids due to the time demands. The SAHMs who never end up going back are not the ones with JDs from HLS or PhDs from Chicago...

This. It’s also about marrying someone with self-confidence who believes they have something to contribute to the world. I think the self-confidence is key to being able to project yourself into a public role. It’s not that nurturing a family isn’t important. But it doesn’t require you to deal with a public role and be accountable to people in a public capacity. That can be very nerve wracking for some people.

TLDR; confident men go for confident women. That usually translates as some parity in education or career.

Yes and those very confident and ambitious men want a woman who can talk the talk and play the game when they are out with clients for example. And I think that’s why some men with the less educated sahm first wives leave them for someone they met at work

You are way too invested in your version of what confident and ambitious men want. It is true that there is there is assortive mating at the early stages. But there’s little difference from a woman with a degree from Harvard and a degree from another college. At that point it’s a status symbol, but the woman still has to be attractive. As the career trajectory grows, the need for the woman to earn money becomes even less. So the insistence somehow they want high earning women and move everything to nannies is not true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its slightly different -- high earning, well educated men want women with similar levels of education. They don't want an undereducated (relatively speaking) woman to have children with and to raise their children. This means highly educated men marry highly educated women, who, not surprisingly, often end up in well paying careers. So, it's the education that really matters, not the high salary. HLS big law partners are going to marry similarly educated women, who may also end up in big law and earn $$$, but who often end up in lower paid positions (e.g., at NGOs, fed govt, etc.) after kids due to the time demands. The SAHMs who never end up going back are not the ones with JDs from HLS or PhDs from Chicago...

This. It’s also about marrying someone with self-confidence who believes they have something to contribute to the world. I think the self-confidence is key to being able to project yourself into a public role. It’s not that nurturing a family isn’t important. But it doesn’t require you to deal with a public role and be accountable to people in a public capacity. That can be very nerve wracking for some people.

TLDR; confident men go for confident women. That usually translates as some parity in education or career.

Yes and those very confident and ambitious men want a woman who can talk the talk and play the game when they are out with clients for example. And I think that’s why some men with the less educated sahm first wives leave them for someone they met at work

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its slightly different -- high earning, well educated men want women with similar levels of education. They don't want an undereducated (relatively speaking) woman to have children with and to raise their children. This means highly educated men marry highly educated women, who, not surprisingly, often end up in well paying careers. So, it's the education that really matters, not the high salary. HLS big law partners are going to marry similarly educated women, who may also end up in big law and earn $$$, but who often end up in lower paid positions (e.g., at NGOs, fed govt, etc.) after kids due to the time demands. The SAHMs who never end up going back are not the ones with JDs from HLS or PhDs from Chicago...

This. It’s also about marrying someone with self-confidence who believes they have something to contribute to the world. I think the self-confidence is key to being able to project yourself into a public role. It’s not that nurturing a family isn’t important. But it doesn’t require you to deal with a public role and be accountable to people in a public capacity. That can be very nerve wracking for some people.

TLDR; confident men go for confident women. That usually translates as some parity in education or career.

And a lot of umc parenting nowadays requires the mom to have awareness of certain things and not be out of that world. Look at applying to college, for example . A mom who went to an Ivy and, say, works at a nonprofit after leaving Wall Street has the awareness and is current and can help and has the time and can help her kid talk to people in her network who went to different schools. Versus your sahm who never went back and never had a career or impressive education.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its slightly different -- high earning, well educated men want women with similar levels of education. They don't want an undereducated (relatively speaking) woman to have children with and to raise their children. This means highly educated men marry highly educated women, who, not surprisingly, often end up in well paying careers. So, it's the education that really matters, not the high salary. HLS big law partners are going to marry similarly educated women, who may also end up in big law and earn $$$, but who often end up in lower paid positions (e.g., at NGOs, fed govt, etc.) after kids due to the time demands. The SAHMs who never end up going back are not the ones with JDs from HLS or PhDs from Chicago...

This. It’s also about marrying someone with self-confidence who believes they have something to contribute to the world. I think the self-confidence is key to being able to project yourself into a public role. It’s not that nurturing a family isn’t important. But it doesn’t require you to deal with a public role and be accountable to people in a public capacity. That can be very nerve wracking for some people.

TLDR; confident men go for confident women. That usually translates as some parity in education or career.

Anonymous wrote:Low T men have always been this way.

This explains my ex husband

Given in Texas women are now going to not have jobs I see this as moot.

Same in all red states. Want to work ladies LOL not gonna happen. Then win 2024 already to go bills to make sure women lose jobs to men.

The "family man legislation" headed to all red states I am not wrong.

Low T men have always been this way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a guy who dated college girls in college, waitresses when I was a bartender, beach bunnies when I spent a year surfing, and then law students when I was in law school. Why did I marry the law student? She was hot, smart, and kind. But a poor student at the time, just like me. Her future income potential never entered my mind, it was more like my wild days were over and it was time to settle down.

You are 70 years old, and have been out of the dating world for a long time.

Uh... I'm 41

How much do you make/net worth?

Nothing crazy. Together we make about 400k, which is of course huge for most people, but not big law partner money. My wife makes a little more than me. I can’t say that I am happier now then when we had nothing. More money, more stress, less freedom.

Sorry that's not really a lot of money. Like marries like. You sound average married to another average person.