Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

State actor my ass. There’s no state action involved if the kids can opt out with no penalty. Did you go to a real law school?

The penalty is no school instruction/childcare. They have to provide ah option -e.g., study hall.

There will obviously be some sort of stay back plan for students. It might not be great,but they won't just put the kids who don't go out on the street.

Anonymous wrote:I’m female and have traveled to the Middle East. I guess I didn’t realize young girls had to cover their heads.

Someone educate me if I am wrong, I think its only after puberty they have to wear the head scarf.

OP, if it is the fact that only girls are asked to wear the scarf why not bring it up to your school and say that boys could wear them as well? In India (majority Hindus), non Muslim men wear a handkerchief on top of their head like a covering and go to the mosque as a sign of a respect. It is not required but some people do out of respect. The girls just pull their shawl (dupatta) over their heads

My question about this trip has nothing to do with attire, it’s how they plan to have meaningful visits to all three houses of worship in one day.

I’m female and have traveled to the Middle East. I guess I didn’t realize young girls had to cover their heads.

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Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

No, to be honest, I don’t. I would want my daughter to show respect to those whose house she enters. It’s the right thing to do.

It seems as if students can CHOOSE to wear a scarf on this trip. So what, exactly, is the problem?

The choice is wear a scarf, or skip the trip. Public schools aren't allowed to impose discriminatory dress codes, even on optional events.

The school isn't imposing a dress code -- you will lose this fight. And I agree you are being disrespectful to Muslims.

But should this even be a thing re: the school forcing you to have the conversation with your child? I’m an educator and I assure you that you DO NOT want a teacher explaining to your child why you decided not to let her attend. You would definitely be on this forum comparing about the audacity of the teacher to have that conversation with your child.

Anonymous wrote:Years ago, before I travelled to Morocco, I read a book of essays by Muslim women. One of the essays stayed with me all these years. I sometimes think about what this one woman wrote. She viewed covering herself as liberating. She said she was not judged by the superficial standards of the west. Her claim was that western women were enslaved by beauty standards set by men. Ladies, if we are honest with yourself es, think about the amount of time we devote to this.

Sometimes I think it might be liberating to not have to worry about my thighs, my belly etc. Just saying there are different perspectives. Not anyone is correct. Just something to think about.

Maybe find that essay or another similar one for your daughter to read. Give her a different perspective and let her form her own opinion.

This. I found the COVID dress code liberating. My face was covered, no makeup, in a big hat and scarf during winter. It was glorious. Women don't realize how much their lives are dominated by what they look like. Go to the Tween threads to read debates about what young girls should and shouldn't be wearing, and whether short shorts, midriff shirts, etc. are THEIR choice. None of the clothing that young girls wear is really their choice. It's usually pressure to conform to certain standards and meet expectations of how others think we should look.

Not to derail the thread but I totally agree with this. It's liberating to be totally covered and not judged on your body.

OP, you can be an atheist all you want. Your daughter's mere presence in a mosque (or church/synagogue) will not lead to automatic conversion, nor does it imply that you ascribe to the religion. I actually would want my children to visit other cultures and houses to which we are not apart. While you may not like it, Muslims make up 1B people on this planet. It is good to have an understanding of Islamic practice. The same would be true for Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, or similar.

Much like yourself, I'm an atheist. I don't like religion in school. I am wholly opposed to creating religious holidays in the public school calendar and think it's nuts-o. I don't have any issues with the study of the religion in a purely academic setting. It is broadening your child's horizons - whether you agree with it or not.

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Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

No, to be honest, I don’t. I would want my daughter to show respect to those whose house she enters. It’s the right thing to do.

It seems as if students can CHOOSE to wear a scarf on this trip. So what, exactly, is the problem?

The choice is wear a scarf, or skip the trip. Public schools aren't allowed to impose discriminatory dress codes, even on optional events.

It seems this has been disproven several times on this thread. Angry people are just looking for a reason to remain angry.

Saying, "No, that's not how it works" is not the same as disproving something. No matter how many times you say it.

Look. It’s simple. People with knowledge of this trip and its requirements have weighed in. Students need to wear long pants and long shirts, with no mention of head coverings. So it seems as if the anger about required head coverings is unnecessary and misplaced.

There are many problems in this world that need our attention. This doesn’t seem to be one of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

State actor my ass. There’s no state action involved if the kids can opt out with no penalty. Did you go to a real law school?

The penalty is no school instruction/childcare. They have to provide ah option -e.g., study hall.

No, schools can't discriminate even in optional activities.

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Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

No, to be honest, I don’t. I would want my daughter to show respect to those whose house she enters. It’s the right thing to do.

It seems as if students can CHOOSE to wear a scarf on this trip. So what, exactly, is the problem?

The choice is wear a scarf, or skip the trip. Public schools aren't allowed to impose discriminatory dress codes, even on optional events.

It seems this has been disproven several times on this thread. Angry people are just looking for a reason to remain angry.

Saying, "No, that's not how it works" is not the same as disproving something. No matter how many times you say it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

No, to be honest, I don’t. I would want my daughter to show respect to those whose house she enters. It’s the right thing to do.

It seems as if students can CHOOSE to wear a scarf on this trip. So what, exactly, is the problem?

The choice is wear a scarf, or skip the trip. Public schools aren't allowed to impose discriminatory dress codes, even on optional events.

It seems this has been disproven several times on this thread. Angry people are just looking for a reason to remain angry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

State actor my ass. There’s no state action involved if the kids can opt out with no penalty. Did you go to a real law school?

The penalty is no school instruction/childcare. They have to provide ah option -e.g., study hall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

No, to be honest, I don’t. I would want my daughter to show respect to those whose house she enters. It’s the right thing to do.

It seems as if students can CHOOSE to wear a scarf on this trip. So what, exactly, is the problem?

The choice is wear a scarf, or skip the trip. Public schools aren't allowed to impose discriminatory dress codes, even on optional events.