Anonymous
10/19/2022 11:24
Subject: law school?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why so much love for GMU? It’s a right wing law school.
Believe it or not, a number of lawyers still believe that students must learn to argue all sides of a point in class, and for their clients, not just SJW woke stuff. It's supposed to be a professional school. Yale is no longer that. If you want social indoctrination you go there. If you want to learn the law you go to Scalia Law, Texas, maybe Notre Dame, etc.
You sound sad, OP.
Did you not get into Yale?
You know that Bratty Kavanaugh went to Yale, don't you?
I'd hardly call him a social justice warrior, quite the contrary.
Anonymous
10/19/2022 11:22
Subject: law school?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why so much love for GMU? It’s a right wing law school.
Believe it or not, a number of lawyers still believe that students must learn to argue all sides of a point in class, and for their clients, not just SJW woke stuff. It's supposed to be a professional school. Yale is no longer that. If you want social indoctrination you go there. If you want to learn the law you go to Scalia Law, Texas, maybe Notre Dame, etc.
Actually because it's a conservative school, those kids get good clerkships with conservative judges (there are tons of them) that kids fr higher-ranked schools are not a great fit for.
It's easier all the way up for conservative law grads (jobs on the hill, in administrations, etc.) You can get a very puffed up resume easily.
Anonymous
10/19/2022 11:22
Subject: law school?
Just curious: What is a right wing law school?
A friend of a friend is going to JMU now with a huge scholarship. She has been out of school for a few years, and couldn't afford UVA, T14. She's apparently enjoying her nearly free legal education. What makes JMU right wing?
A friend of a friend is going to JMU now with a huge scholarship. She has been out of school for a few years, and couldn't afford UVA, T14. She's apparently enjoying her nearly free legal education. What makes JMU right wing?
Anonymous
10/19/2022 11:18
Subject: law school?
Anonymous wrote:[/b]Anonymous[b wrote:]This is OP and this is exactly my question. ^ let's say my DS gets into UVA Law at $65+K tuition and also GMU or W&M at a much lower in state rate, what is the best move?
UVA, because it ranks between 6 and 8 on the T14
OP the previous poster did not ask exactly your question. GW versus UVA is a very different matter. UVA is ranked much higher and is worth debt more than GW is worth debt.
Anonymous
10/19/2022 11:14
Subject: law school?
Anonymous wrote:Why so much love for GMU? It’s a right wing law school.
Believe it or not, a number of lawyers still believe that students must learn to argue all sides of a point in class, and for their clients, not just SJW woke stuff. It's supposed to be a professional school. Yale is no longer that. If you want social indoctrination you go there. If you want to learn the law you go to Scalia Law, Texas, maybe Notre Dame, etc.
Anonymous
10/19/2022 11:11
Subject: law school?
[/b]Anonymous[b wrote:]This is OP and this is exactly my question. ^ let's say my DS gets into UVA Law at $65+K tuition and also GMU or W&M at a much lower in state rate, what is the best move?
UVA, because it ranks between 6 and 8 on the T14
Anonymous
10/19/2022 11:07
Subject: law school?
Anonymous wrote:+1 on GMU law. Their employment stats are impressive and those kids hustle. They don't have a chip on their shoulder like some other DC area law school kids do and are earnest.
+1,
Anonymous
10/19/2022 11:00
Subject: Re:law school?
Anonymous wrote:You MUST go to the highest ranked law school no matter what it costs, if you want to be in Big Law, where you WILL be miserable. You MUST get a Big Law job, though you WILL be miserable in Big Law, but you MUST stay to pay off your loans. Is this the wisdom of DCUM? I'm also confused why everyone is talking about law school loans when everyone on DCUM is wealthy and has saved enough to send their kids to both Ivy undergrads and Ivy grad schools. Also, everyone on DCUM has kids who CAN and WILL get into these schools, and WILL get Big Law offers.
Spending a few years in BigLaw is like completing residency after getting an MD. You work extremely hard and learn the profession. Some love it and stay forever. Others move on to other jobs. If you're smart with money you can pay off your loans in just a few years (unlike residency).
Anonymous
10/19/2022 10:56
Subject: law school?
If your kid majored in STEM undergrad, consider patent law.
Anonymous
10/19/2022 10:53
Subject: law school?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is OP and this is exactly my question. ^ let's say my DS gets into UVA Law at $65+K tuition and also GMU or W&M at a much lower in state rate, what is the best move?
The best school they can get into and let the forgiveness plans sort out the debt. My “do gooder” friends are paying a tiny student loan payment a month and are about to have it all forgiven now that we are almost 10 years out.
-1
If he does not have interest in BigLaw or clerkships I would argue that GMU would be the way to go. It is well respected in the DC area and it is significantly less debt. If he wants to do environmental law I would suggest he find a job in an area he is interested in in the DC area, live in VA for the in state tuition and go to GMU part time. Also, if it turns out that he is a legal superstar and wants all those things, he can transfer to UVA his second year. I transferred from a lessor school (much lessor than either GMU or W&M) to a T14. I was a superstar at my lessor school and only received one grade below an A at my T14 law school, graduating with honors there.
I think you’re wildly underestimating how snobby “good guy” enviro law employers are. You really have to have it all: great grades, great school, great work experience.
The cost of attendance at UVA law is $92K/year. If there is no merit and all is borrowed, that is closing in on $300k in debt. This grad is now locked into either a loan forgiveness path, biglaw, or a life of student debt. I think students should go into to eyes wide open. I admittedly am not an environmental law expert and the est path for this student is to talk to some before going down this debt path and best case scenario work in the area before law school. I also don’t know that this student will be admitted to UVA, receive merit aid or ultimately excel at law. I also am not conservative so GMU would not be my selection without other factors but I think you need to weigh all factors including cost and location for the opportunities that location may provide. I know multiple GMU law grads (and a current student in the part time program). They are strong attorneys. Agree completely T14 is the path to certain kinds of legal success.
My kids are in high school. I would absolutely encourage them to go to the best law school possible and I would look to help them pay for it. I would not encourage them to take on mortgage level debt without exploring all options.
The redeeming part of a T14 is that you can pretty much pay off your loans with 3 years in BigLaw. That's a pretty short stint, even if you hate it, and at the end you have a very good resume with lots of options.
If you go the other route with $200k in debt, there's a chance that you'll only get a $60k per year job (or no job) and that debt will follow you for 20 years.
Anonymous
10/19/2022 10:50
Subject: Re:law school?
You MUST go to the highest ranked law school no matter what it costs, if you want to be in Big Law, where you WILL be miserable. You MUST get a Big Law job, though you WILL be miserable in Big Law, but you MUST stay to pay off your loans. Is this the wisdom of DCUM? I'm also confused why everyone is talking about law school loans when everyone on DCUM is wealthy and has saved enough to send their kids to both Ivy undergrads and Ivy grad schools. Also, everyone on DCUM has kids who CAN and WILL get into these schools, and WILL get Big Law offers.
Anonymous
10/19/2022 10:43
Subject: law school?
GMU with grants over GWU for sure.
GMU versus UVA is a completely different question because UVA is ranked much higher than GWU.
GMU versus UVA is a completely different question because UVA is ranked much higher than GWU.
Anonymous
10/19/2022 10:24
Subject: law school?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is OP and this is exactly my question. ^ let's say my DS gets into UVA Law at $65+K tuition and also GMU or W&M at a much lower in state rate, what is the best move?
The best school they can get into and let the forgiveness plans sort out the debt. My “do gooder” friends are paying a tiny student loan payment a month and are about to have it all forgiven now that we are almost 10 years out.
-1
If he does not have interest in BigLaw or clerkships I would argue that GMU would be the way to go. It is well respected in the DC area and it is significantly less debt. If he wants to do environmental law I would suggest he find a job in an area he is interested in in the DC area, live in VA for the in state tuition and go to GMU part time. Also, if it turns out that he is a legal superstar and wants all those things, he can transfer to UVA his second year. I transferred from a lessor school (much lessor than either GMU or W&M) to a T14. I was a superstar at my lessor school and only received one grade below an A at my T14 law school, graduating with honors there.
I think you’re wildly underestimating how snobby “good guy” enviro law employers are. You really have to have it all: great grades, great school, great work experience.
The cost of attendance at UVA law is $92K/year. If there is no merit and all is borrowed, that is closing in on $300k in debt. This grad is now locked into either a loan forgiveness path, biglaw, or a life of student debt. I think students should go into to eyes wide open. I admittedly am not an environmental law expert and the est path for this student is to talk to some before going down this debt path and best case scenario work in the area before law school. I also don’t know that this student will be admitted to UVA, receive merit aid or ultimately excel at law. I also am not conservative so GMU would not be my selection without other factors but I think you need to weigh all factors including cost and location for the opportunities that location may provide. I know multiple GMU law grads (and a current student in the part time program). They are strong attorneys. Agree completely T14 is the path to certain kinds of legal success.
My kids are in high school. I would absolutely encourage them to go to the best law school possible and I would look to help them pay for it. I would not encourage them to take on mortgage level debt without exploring all options.
Anonymous
10/19/2022 10:14
Subject: law school?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is OP and this is exactly my question. ^ let's say my DS gets into UVA Law at $65+K tuition and also GMU or W&M at a much lower in state rate, what is the best move?
UVA hands down. Not even a question.
+1 The $30k per year difference will likely be made up in three-five years after graduation. Not in every case, mind you.
The $90,000 difference can be made up in one's first year of employment if hired by a biglaw firm. (First year base salary about $215,000 plus year end bonus. Small law firm might hire one for $60,000 plus small bonus.)
Anonymous
10/19/2022 10:11
Subject: law school?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is OP and this is exactly my question. ^ let's say my DS gets into UVA Law at $65+K tuition and also GMU or W&M at a much lower in state rate, what is the best move?
UVA hands down. Not even a question.
+1 The $30k per year difference will likely be made up in three-five years after graduation. Not in every case, mind you.