Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has been zero discussion on addressing learning loss. Only a mention that it exists. My kids Title i schools, especially the HS, seems almost gleeful about it. They are he!! bent on reducing the number of APs and Honors classes students take.

It shouldn’t be a matter of, if you parent want to address the learning loss, you can pay for it yourself. This should be addressed from the top down (state to district).

Realistically speaking, they would have many of the kids repeat a full year of school. Most of the kids in FCPS, not just Title 1 schools, would have been better off if they repeated their DL year. The standards were diminished for the year and many kids struggled with those diminished standards due to DL. But the idea of having a large percentage of the kids in FCPS repeat a year was too much for anyone to handle and if you think that the schools are going to be able to address the learning loss during the school year, you are crazy.

And yes, the ES kids are going to struggle with higher math in a bunch of years for the same reason that the current kids in Algebra 2 are struggling. They are missing core concepts that are needed for future success. It is easier to see what is missing in the older kids now but the ES kids are going to have the same issue. The reality is that ES parents have more time to recover using things like Khan Academy (free), workbooks, or some type of tutoring/math class program (Kumon, Sylvan, RSM.)

I cannot imagine how badly the kids taking Algebra were affected by this. The Teachers taught a different curriculum and the online learning was not ideal. There were too many options for kids to be lazy or cheat or just not show up. We saw plenty of adults who were suddenly teleworking not showing up and not doing the work that they were assigned at my job site, why would I expect that teenagers might not do the same thing? For the kids who were making an effort, they got a slower course that did not cover all the normal concepts. They had to figure out how to learn in a totally different environment. It is very likely that they did not learn the material as well as they would have learned it in the classroom.

This is not a good combination for kids today in Algebra 2 because you have kids who cheated and kids who tried but were not given the full material and the schools and Parents are acting like these same kids had the full course and are prepared for Algebra 2 when they simply are not. There is probably a small percentage of the kids taking the class who are ready for Algebra 2 and I would be t that those kids were doing extra work to get to that point. We are all going to be dealing with this for a long time.

So you’re OK that this problem is being swept under the rug? And not just here in FCPS. We either pay now or pay later with interest.

Nope, my kid went for math classes on the weekend. He is going to be fine. I saw the problem while it was happening and saw that the County and State (they adjusted the standards for the schools and SOLs) was not going to do crap about it. So we acted and made sure he didn't have gaps.

I fail to see how not doing anything to support my child in the moment and complaining about what happened in DL is going to help my child. We are already a year past when the most effective remedy was possible, allowing kids to repeat classes where needed and expunging grades, so I am not sure what you think is going to happen.

I am not sure what can be done for students in this moment. Staying in Algebra 2 or an advanced language or whatever class they missed foundational material for is not a good idea for kids who are struggling. Slowing down the material, and thereby dropping standards, isn't going to help them.

DL might have brought forward the lack of school support for some people but my parents provided tutoring and specialized work for my brother and I because the school wasn't doing enough in the 1980's, we have LDs and ADHD. The school did the minimum it as expected to do and nothing more in the 1980's. Plenty of parents will tell you the same thing is happening today. If they waited for the school to actually do what they are supposed to do, their kids would be screwed. The big difference now is that parents of kids who had been doing fine and were screwed with DL are seeing what parents of kids who have been struggling for ages have seen. FCPS, and I the schools I attended in totally different states, will do the bare minimum and walk away. So it is on you, if you can, to fix the problem.

I tend to agree with this view. We saw the gaps and problems. We hired a math tutor for Al. 1 HN. The tutor -a teacher- acknowledged the gaps in the DL curriculum and plugged the holes (incidentally, we kept on with the tutor as we have found the classes too big for DC and adequate explanation isn't always given). Similarly, I have a lot of writing experience and worked with my kid on grammar and writing. We complained but we took the initiative and did something to mitigate it. Did I want to pay for a tutor? No. But I could either not on some righteous principle or do something about it (and yes, I know we are lucky that we could afford to do that but, lbh, lots of people on here can afford it and just did not).

Look, DL wasn't perfect. But, I'm finding being onsite also is not perfect with teachers varying wildly in how they teach (or how my kid responds to any particular teaching style).

Quit complaining. Fix it. Free tutoring, online services, office hours, free periods with teachers, work with them yourself if you are able . . . . all available at no cost to help your kids.

I have addressed it for my own kid. But that doesn’t help the others, and therefore it is a problem. It is our problem and the problem is now worse. Walk away while you virtue signal. I tutor my own kids as well as others. The wealth in this district is inversely proportional to how much it cares about the quality community education. Hate in the form of passivity and indifference has found a home in FCPS.

So what's the answer?

Modifying the curriculum so it accounts for what was actually taught, not what the district wished was taught.

Which will do the kids no good when they go to college and take classes based on their high school transcript. They need to learn the material that is required for these math classes and language classes and Science classes. So continuing to change the standard is not helping anyone. Parents are going to need to find a way to get their kids caught up. Some of us did that during DL because we saw what was coming. Now you can get your kid a tutor for Algebra 2 and have that person review Algebra and teach your kid what they missed.

No one is saying that this is a good situation but changing the standard is not the answer. It wasn’t during DL and it isn’t now.

Yes, kids need to learn the material for future science and colleges. That is why it is so important that schools teach today! If you make up the base, then you can move on. If you never make up the base, there will always be holes. These kids are 14/15. Now is the time to take them where they are and teach.

Good for you on making up the "holes." But this is no different than a family who supplements reading in the early years. The school teach half a curriculum. Now it is up to the school to make it up. Your precious child will just have to be bored or you can ask them to advance to a different class.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else have a kid who struggled or is struggling with this class? 2 tests in and my kid is failing. Kid has always been strong in math. Even after getting help from a tutor. I don't know what else to do for DC. Seems like lots of kids in the class are having a hard time. The teacher told them that the class average is a 68 right now. Is this normal??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has provided a lot of perspective. As a follow up, my child's teacher has communicated that he sees a serious issue with the number of students struggling and will be adjusting the lessons accordingly, providing more in-class problem solving and examples. Hopefully my child can get back on track with the changes, along with supplementing with Khan Academy and additional practice at home.

As for those who were saying that they saw the deficiencies during online learning and got tutors or supplemented to fill in gaps, I commend you. Unfortunately, I wasn't watching my child's lessons, looking over homework, or reviewing tests because he was doing his work and getting good grades. Even IF I had suspected serious gaps (not that I would know, as I am not a math person), I would have been hard pressed to make my kid do extra work when he was already miserable during that year.

I don't think the idea of this post was to discuss how some parents are better than others because they filled in where the schools failed. We are all just doing the best we can, with what we have. We should give each other the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day, we are all sending our kids to school so that teachers take the reigns and educate them. They are not miracle workers, but that IS the task they've been given. I cannot teach my child Alg. 2, or chemistry, or languages other than English. I cannot afford to send them to tutors or take time out of my work day to coach them through class work. To place the onus of deficient preparation on the child is ridiculous. So perhaps changing standards isn't the BEST solution, but neither is having the children repeat a class they passed or telling them to spend even MORE of their downtime learning what they should have learned 2 years ago to keep from tanking their GPAs. I mean, don't these kids already have enough stress in their lives, as it is?

OP, this is going to be tough love. No one is ever going to care about your child's future like you will. Period. FCPS is not going to catch up these kids. They just are not. Accept it and know that it is on you or your partner to ensure that your child gets the help that he needs. Scrimp, save, beg and borrow, but make sure that your child has an education.

Best wishes.

Parents should not quietly accept this.

Again, this has been reality for many kids for 50 some years. Ask any parent of a kid who is struggling or has LDs or ADHD. Just because a good number of parents are just noticing the issues with what public schools are willing to do for kids who are struggling does not mean it is new.

Public schools are not able to do a good job helping any one group because they have to work with so many types of kids. They provide an appropriate education. That does not mean that they will provide Algebra 2 for all kids or all kids who are interested. There are other classes that are available and meet the graduation requirements for math. You can tell people not to accept this but the reality is, the schools can point to other options.

You are responsible for finding a way to help your child succeed in their classes. That might mean tutors or Khan or some type of support that you have to pay for. Look for college kids who are willing to tutor for less then a professional tutor to save money.

Accept the reality or don’t but that is were we have been for ages, many of you are just realizing what others have lived with for their entire kids lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has provided a lot of perspective. As a follow up, my child's teacher has communicated that he sees a serious issue with the number of students struggling and will be adjusting the lessons accordingly, providing more in-class problem solving and examples. Hopefully my child can get back on track with the changes, along with supplementing with Khan Academy and additional practice at home.

As for those who were saying that they saw the deficiencies during online learning and got tutors or supplemented to fill in gaps, I commend you. Unfortunately, I wasn't watching my child's lessons, looking over homework, or reviewing tests because he was doing his work and getting good grades. Even IF I had suspected serious gaps (not that I would know, as I am not a math person), I would have been hard pressed to make my kid do extra work when he was already miserable during that year.

I don't think the idea of this post was to discuss how some parents are better than others because they filled in where the schools failed. We are all just doing the best we can, with what we have. We should give each other the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day, we are all sending our kids to school so that teachers take the reigns and educate them. They are not miracle workers, but that IS the task they've been given. I cannot teach my child Alg. 2, or chemistry, or languages other than English. I cannot afford to send them to tutors or take time out of my work day to coach them through class work. To place the onus of deficient preparation on the child is ridiculous. So perhaps changing standards isn't the BEST solution, but neither is having the children repeat a class they passed or telling them to spend even MORE of their downtime learning what they should have learned 2 years ago to keep from tanking their GPAs. I mean, don't these kids already have enough stress in their lives, as it is?

OP, this is going to be tough love. No one is ever going to care about your child's future like you will. Period. FCPS is not going to catch up these kids. They just are not. Accept it and know that it is on you or your partner to ensure that your child gets the help that he needs. Scrimp, save, beg and borrow, but make sure that your child has an education.

Best wishes.

Parents should not quietly accept this.

Anonymous wrote:I agree with both of you. No one will care more about your child’s education than you. AND we should not accept this mediocre system quietly.

OP you made good points. Glad your kid’s teacher is being responsive. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has provided a lot of perspective. As a follow up, my child's teacher has communicated that he sees a serious issue with the number of students struggling and will be adjusting the lessons accordingly, providing more in-class problem solving and examples. Hopefully my child can get back on track with the changes, along with supplementing with Khan Academy and additional practice at home.

As for those who were saying that they saw the deficiencies during online learning and got tutors or supplemented to fill in gaps, I commend you. Unfortunately, I wasn't watching my child's lessons, looking over homework, or reviewing tests because he was doing his work and getting good grades. Even IF I had suspected serious gaps (not that I would know, as I am not a math person), I would have been hard pressed to make my kid do extra work when he was already miserable during that year.

I don't think the idea of this post was to discuss how some parents are better than others because they filled in where the schools failed. We are all just doing the best we can, with what we have. We should give each other the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day, we are all sending our kids to school so that teachers take the reigns and educate them. They are not miracle workers, but that IS the task they've been given. I cannot teach my child Alg. 2, or chemistry, or languages other than English. I cannot afford to send them to tutors or take time out of my work day to coach them through class work. To place the onus of deficient preparation on the child is ridiculous. So perhaps changing standards isn't the BEST solution, but neither is having the children repeat a class they passed or telling them to spend even MORE of their downtime learning what they should have learned 2 years ago to keep from tanking their GPAs. I mean, don't these kids already have enough stress in their lives, as it is?

OP, this is going to be tough love. No one is ever going to care about your child's future like you will. Period. FCPS is not going to catch up these kids. They just are not. Accept it and know that it is on you or your partner to ensure that your child gets the help that he needs. Scrimp, save, beg and borrow, but make sure that your child has an education.

Best wishes.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has provided a lot of perspective. As a follow up, my child's teacher has communicated that he sees a serious issue with the number of students struggling and will be adjusting the lessons accordingly, providing more in-class problem solving and examples. Hopefully my child can get back on track with the changes, along with supplementing with Khan Academy and additional practice at home.

As for those who were saying that they saw the deficiencies during online learning and got tutors or supplemented to fill in gaps, I commend you. Unfortunately, I wasn't watching my child's lessons, looking over homework, or reviewing tests because he was doing his work and getting good grades. Even IF I had suspected serious gaps (not that I would know, as I am not a math person), I would have been hard pressed to make my kid do extra work when he was already miserable during that year.

I don't think the idea of this post was to discuss how some parents are better than others because they filled in where the schools failed. We are all just doing the best we can, with what we have. We should give each other the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day, we are all sending our kids to school so that teachers take the reigns and educate them. They are not miracle workers, but that IS the task they've been given. I cannot teach my child Alg. 2, or chemistry, or languages other than English. I cannot afford to send them to tutors or take time out of my work day to coach them through class work. To place the onus of deficient preparation on the child is ridiculous. So perhaps changing standards isn't the BEST solution, but neither is having the children repeat a class they passed or telling them to spend even MORE of their downtime learning what they should have learned 2 years ago to keep from tanking their GPAs. I mean, don't these kids already have enough stress in their lives, as it is?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has been zero discussion on addressing learning loss. Only a mention that it exists. My kids Title i schools, especially the HS, seems almost gleeful about it. They are he!! bent on reducing the number of APs and Honors classes students take.

It shouldn’t be a matter of, if you parent want to address the learning loss, you can pay for it yourself. This should be addressed from the top down (state to district).

Realistically speaking, they would have many of the kids repeat a full year of school. Most of the kids in FCPS, not just Title 1 schools, would have been better off if they repeated their DL year. The standards were diminished for the year and many kids struggled with those diminished standards due to DL. But the idea of having a large percentage of the kids in FCPS repeat a year was too much for anyone to handle and if you think that the schools are going to be able to address the learning loss during the school year, you are crazy.

And yes, the ES kids are going to struggle with higher math in a bunch of years for the same reason that the current kids in Algebra 2 are struggling. They are missing core concepts that are needed for future success. It is easier to see what is missing in the older kids now but the ES kids are going to have the same issue. The reality is that ES parents have more time to recover using things like Khan Academy (free), workbooks, or some type of tutoring/math class program (Kumon, Sylvan, RSM.)

I cannot imagine how badly the kids taking Algebra were affected by this. The Teachers taught a different curriculum and the online learning was not ideal. There were too many options for kids to be lazy or cheat or just not show up. We saw plenty of adults who were suddenly teleworking not showing up and not doing the work that they were assigned at my job site, why would I expect that teenagers might not do the same thing? For the kids who were making an effort, they got a slower course that did not cover all the normal concepts. They had to figure out how to learn in a totally different environment. It is very likely that they did not learn the material as well as they would have learned it in the classroom.

This is not a good combination for kids today in Algebra 2 because you have kids who cheated and kids who tried but were not given the full material and the schools and Parents are acting like these same kids had the full course and are prepared for Algebra 2 when they simply are not. There is probably a small percentage of the kids taking the class who are ready for Algebra 2 and I would be t that those kids were doing extra work to get to that point. We are all going to be dealing with this for a long time.

So you’re OK that this problem is being swept under the rug? And not just here in FCPS. We either pay now or pay later with interest.

Nope, my kid went for math classes on the weekend. He is going to be fine. I saw the problem while it was happening and saw that the County and State (they adjusted the standards for the schools and SOLs) was not going to do crap about it. So we acted and made sure he didn't have gaps.

I fail to see how not doing anything to support my child in the moment and complaining about what happened in DL is going to help my child. We are already a year past when the most effective remedy was possible, allowing kids to repeat classes where needed and expunging grades, so I am not sure what you think is going to happen.

I am not sure what can be done for students in this moment. Staying in Algebra 2 or an advanced language or whatever class they missed foundational material for is not a good idea for kids who are struggling. Slowing down the material, and thereby dropping standards, isn't going to help them.

DL might have brought forward the lack of school support for some people but my parents provided tutoring and specialized work for my brother and I because the school wasn't doing enough in the 1980's, we have LDs and ADHD. The school did the minimum it as expected to do and nothing more in the 1980's. Plenty of parents will tell you the same thing is happening today. If they waited for the school to actually do what they are supposed to do, their kids would be screwed. The big difference now is that parents of kids who had been doing fine and were screwed with DL are seeing what parents of kids who have been struggling for ages have seen. FCPS, and I the schools I attended in totally different states, will do the bare minimum and walk away. So it is on you, if you can, to fix the problem.

I tend to agree with this view. We saw the gaps and problems. We hired a math tutor for Al. 1 HN. The tutor -a teacher- acknowledged the gaps in the DL curriculum and plugged the holes (incidentally, we kept on with the tutor as we have found the classes too big for DC and adequate explanation isn't always given). Similarly, I have a lot of writing experience and worked with my kid on grammar and writing. We complained but we took the initiative and did something to mitigate it. Did I want to pay for a tutor? No. But I could either not on some righteous principle or do something about it (and yes, I know we are lucky that we could afford to do that but, lbh, lots of people on here can afford it and just did not).

Look, DL wasn't perfect. But, I'm finding being onsite also is not perfect with teachers varying wildly in how they teach (or how my kid responds to any particular teaching style).

Quit complaining. Fix it. Free tutoring, online services, office hours, free periods with teachers, work with them yourself if you are able . . . . all available at no cost to help your kids.

I have addressed it for my own kid. But that doesn’t help the others, and therefore it is a problem. It is our problem and the problem is now worse. Walk away while you virtue signal. I tutor my own kids as well as others. The wealth in this district is inversely proportional to how much it cares about the quality community education. Hate in the form of passivity and indifference has found a home in FCPS.

So what's the answer?

Modifying the curriculum so it accounts for what was actually taught, not what the district wished was taught.

Which will do the kids no good when they go to college and take classes based on their high school transcript. They need to learn the material that is required for these math classes and language classes and Science classes. So continuing to change the standard is not helping anyone. Parents are going to need to find a way to get their kids caught up. Some of us did that during DL because we saw what was coming. Now you can get your kid a tutor for Algebra 2 and have that person review Algebra and teach your kid what they missed.

No one is saying that this is a good situation but changing the standard is not the answer. It wasn’t during DL and it isn’t now.