Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, the UVA boosters on this board really are something else , especially with how they taunt everyone who says anything even slightly negative about the school

Ps I have zero connection - didn’t apply there myself (I attended a different ACC school) and my child isn’t going to even look

( not the PP) but when people on this board day that UVA is first at graduating jerks (over W&M), clearly you’re gonna get a reaction no? My kids attend (I didn’t) and they are absolutely not jerks, neither are their friends.

You might want to look at what the poster was responding to. UVA boosters are always starting nonsense.

No, they are not. there is a distinct pattern on this board. Someone says something nasty about UVA and those who understand college admissions correct them. It's that simple. There is a lot of envy in the DCUM area because the entering class at UVA is so small compared to other state flagships and because it has gotten so difficult to get in. Many Virginian families cannot afford the difference in tuition between $35k (all in) and $80K at the privates. Bear in mind that the difference is often paid in after tax dollars, so you aren't talking about just $45K difference per year (we had to refinance our home to send our kids to college; fortunately we could do it). So many Virginians really want to get their children into UVA, W&M, Virginia Tech and the others. We have a superb system. But the availability of slots is not like Texas, California or Michigan. Hence the bitterness that sometimes pops up on this board. Also, Virginia Tech is a rival as is UMD so those students often come on here and make "jerk" comments.

Those parents that are fortunate enough to get their kids into these schools bank the difference if they have it. We did, so have $200K+ to pay now for grad school overseas then law school. That's why you see such bitterness here .... because a lot of money is at stake.

DP. I agree with you to some extent, but the bolded is ridiculous. [b]I have seen just as many "jerk comments" from UVA boosters/parents/students about those rival schools - anything to put down a school that isn't UVA.

It's clear to me that anyone trashing another school - unless there is obvious reason to (like Oberlin, for instance) - is simply bitter that they or their kids didn't get accepted.

[/b]


DP. No, the students from rival schools do frequent here and college confidential and reddit. They are the ones who write the insipid comments like "jerks".

DP. And the UVA boosters frequent this forum, as well as CC and reddit, spewing their usual snobbery and rude comments. It's laughable that you're trying to pretend otherwise. Just stop.

Right says the person defending the idiot that says all 27,000 students there are “jerks”. Grow up

Do you understand what "DP" means? You are talking to different posters. I never said anything of the kind. I simply said I have seen JUST AS MANY "jerk comments" from idiot UVA boosters as from the rival universities. You can't dispute that, so move along. Oh, and I've helpfully bolded my comment, for your convenience. Again - stop trying to pretend UVA boosters aren't some of the most annoying jerks on this forum.

I can dispute that because I've been watching this forum for a long time. Prove it. With a LOT of examples - because they don't exist. The only time the UVA boosters come out is when someone (usually a VT or UMD student or a bitter parent or student whose kid didn't get in) and those more knowledgeable about UVA respond in a sensible fashion and with a citaiton. Those saying the grads are all jerks never cite to anything. I'm waiting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, the UVA boosters on this board really are something else , especially with how they taunt everyone who says anything even slightly negative about the school

Ps I have zero connection - didn’t apply there myself (I attended a different ACC school) and my child isn’t going to even look

( not the PP) but when people on this board day that UVA is first at graduating jerks (over W&M), clearly you’re gonna get a reaction no? My kids attend (I didn’t) and they are absolutely not jerks, neither are their friends.

You might want to look at what the poster was responding to. UVA boosters are always starting nonsense.

No, they are not. there is a distinct pattern on this board. Someone says something nasty about UVA and those who understand college admissions correct them. It's that simple. There is a lot of envy in the DCUM area because the entering class at UVA is so small compared to other state flagships and because it has gotten so difficult to get in. Many Virginian families cannot afford the difference in tuition between $35k (all in) and $80K at the privates. Bear in mind that the difference is often paid in after tax dollars, so you aren't talking about just $45K difference per year (we had to refinance our home to send our kids to college; fortunately we could do it). So many Virginians really want to get their children into UVA, W&M, Virginia Tech and the others. We have a superb system. But the availability of slots is not like Texas, California or Michigan. Hence the bitterness that sometimes pops up on this board. Also, Virginia Tech is a rival as is UMD so those students often come on here and make "jerk" comments.

Those parents that are fortunate enough to get their kids into these schools bank the difference if they have it. We did, so have $200K+ to pay now for grad school overseas then law school. That's why you see such bitterness here .... because a lot of money is at stake.

DP. I agree with you to some extent, but the bolded is ridiculous. [b]I have seen just as many "jerk comments" from UVA boosters/parents/students about those rival schools - anything to put down a school that isn't UVA.

It's clear to me that anyone trashing another school - unless there is obvious reason to (like Oberlin, for instance) - is simply bitter that they or their kids didn't get accepted.

[/b]


DP. No, the students from rival schools do frequent here and college confidential and reddit. They are the ones who write the insipid comments like "jerks".

DP. And the UVA boosters frequent this forum, as well as CC and reddit, spewing their usual snobbery and rude comments. It's laughable that you're trying to pretend otherwise. Just stop.

Right says the person defending the idiot that says all 27,000 students there are “jerks”. Grow up

Do you understand what "DP" means? You are talking to different posters. I never said anything of the kind. I simply said I have seen JUST AS MANY "jerk comments" from idiot UVA boosters as from the rival universities. You can't dispute that, so move along. Oh, and I've helpfully bolded my comment, for your convenience. Again - stop trying to pretend UVA boosters aren't some of the most annoying jerks on this forum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech

Actually, CA does.

Cal Tech is private

I love VT, but VT is no Caltech, and no other Virginia school is a Caltech as well. I think the PP was referring to the options in the UC and Cal State systems.

Probably California's closest option to VT would be Cal Poly SLO. My son now at VT would have liked to go there (we'd visited a lot over the years because I'm an alum)

Tech has solid engineering but sadly their CS program is not that great.

You must be joking.
DP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech

Actually, CA does.

Cal Tech is private

I love VT, but VT is no Caltech, and no other Virginia school is a Caltech as well. I think the PP was referring to the options in the UC and Cal State systems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech

Actually, CA does.

Cal Tech is private

I love VT, but VT is no Caltech, and no other Virginia school is a Caltech as well. I think the PP was referring to the options in the UC and Cal State systems.

Probably California's closest option to VT would be Cal Poly SLO. My son now at VT would have liked to go there (we'd visited a lot over the years because I'm an alum)

Tech has solid engineering but sadly their CS program is not that great.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

There is also Michigan Tech.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech

Actually, CA does.

Michigan also has Michigan State and Michigan is very strong in engineering.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech

Actually, CA does.

Cal Tech is private

I love VT, but VT is no Caltech, and no other Virginia school is a Caltech as well. I think the PP was referring to the options in the UC and Cal State systems.

Probably California's closest option to VT would be Cal Poly SLO. My son now at VT would have liked to go there (we'd visited a lot over the years because I'm an alum)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech

Actually, CA does.

Cal Tech is private

I love VT, but VT is no Caltech, and no other Virginia school is a Caltech as well. I think the PP was referring to the options in the UC and Cal State systems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, the UVA boosters on this board really are something else , especially with how they taunt everyone who says anything even slightly negative about the school

Ps I have zero connection - didn’t apply there myself (I attended a different ACC school) and my child isn’t going to even look

( not the PP) but when people on this board day that UVA is first at graduating jerks (over W&M), clearly you’re gonna get a reaction no? My kids attend (I didn’t) and they are absolutely not jerks, neither are their friends.

You might want to look at what the poster was responding to. UVA boosters are always starting nonsense.

No, they are not. there is a distinct pattern on this board. Someone says something nasty about UVA and those who understand college admissions correct them. It's that simple. There is a lot of envy in the DCUM area because the entering class at UVA is so small compared to other state flagships and because it has gotten so difficult to get in. Many Virginian families cannot afford the difference in tuition between $35k (all in) and $80K at the privates. Bear in mind that the difference is often paid in after tax dollars, so you aren't talking about just $45K difference per year (we had to refinance our home to send our kids to college; fortunately we could do it). So many Virginians really want to get their children into UVA, W&M, Virginia Tech and the others. We have a superb system. But the availability of slots is not like Texas, California or Michigan. Hence the bitterness that sometimes pops up on this board. Also, Virginia Tech is a rival as is UMD so those students often come on here and make "jerk" comments.

Those parents that are fortunate enough to get their kids into these schools bank the difference if they have it. We did, so have $200K+ to pay now for grad school overseas then law school. That's why you see such bitterness here .... because a lot of money is at stake.

DP. I agree with you to some extent, but the bolded is ridiculous. [b]I have seen just as many "jerk comments" from UVA boosters/parents/students about those rival schools - anything to put down a school that isn't UVA.

It's clear to me that anyone trashing another school - unless there is obvious reason to (like Oberlin, for instance) - is simply bitter that they or their kids didn't get accepted.

[/b]


DP. No, the students from rival schools do frequent here and college confidential and reddit. They are the ones who write the insipid comments like "jerks".

DP. And the UVA boosters frequent this forum, as well as CC and reddit, spewing their usual snobbery and rude comments. It's laughable that you're trying to pretend otherwise. Just stop.

Right says the person defending the idiot that says all 27,000 students there are “jerks”. Grow up

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech

Actually, CA does.

Cal Tech is private

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, the UVA boosters on this board really are something else , especially with how they taunt everyone who says anything even slightly negative about the school

Ps I have zero connection - didn’t apply there myself (I attended a different ACC school) and my child isn’t going to even look

( not the PP) but when people on this board day that UVA is first at graduating jerks (over W&M), clearly you’re gonna get a reaction no? My kids attend (I didn’t) and they are absolutely not jerks, neither are their friends.

You might want to look at what the poster was responding to. UVA boosters are always starting nonsense.

No, they are not. there is a distinct pattern on this board. Someone says something nasty about UVA and those who understand college admissions correct them. It's that simple. There is a lot of envy in the DCUM area because the entering class at UVA is so small compared to other state flagships and because it has gotten so difficult to get in. Many Virginian families cannot afford the difference in tuition between $35k (all in) and $80K at the privates. Bear in mind that the difference is often paid in after tax dollars, so you aren't talking about just $45K difference per year (we had to refinance our home to send our kids to college; fortunately we could do it). So many Virginians really want to get their children into UVA, W&M, Virginia Tech and the others. We have a superb system. But the availability of slots is not like Texas, California or Michigan. Hence the bitterness that sometimes pops up on this board. Also, Virginia Tech is a rival as is UMD so those students often come on here and make "jerk" comments.

Those parents that are fortunate enough to get their kids into these schools bank the difference if they have it. We did, so have $200K+ to pay now for grad school overseas then law school. That's why you see such bitterness here .... because a lot of money is at stake.

DP. I agree with you to some extent, but the bolded is ridiculous. I have seen just as many "jerk comments" from UVA boosters/parents/students about those rival schools - anything to put down a school that isn't UVA.

It's clear to me that anyone trashing another school - unless there is obvious reason to (like Oberlin, for instance) - is simply bitter that they or their kids didn't get accepted.

DP. No, the students from rival schools do frequent here and college confidential and reddit. They are the ones who write the insipid comments like "jerks".

DP. And the UVA boosters frequent this forum, as well as CC and reddit, spewing their usual snobbery and rude comments. It's laughable that you're trying to pretend otherwise. Just stop.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, the UVA boosters on this board really are something else , especially with how they taunt everyone who says anything even slightly negative about the school

Ps I have zero connection - didn’t apply there myself (I attended a different ACC school) and my child isn’t going to even look

( not the PP) but when people on this board day that UVA is first at graduating jerks (over W&M), clearly you’re gonna get a reaction no? My kids attend (I didn’t) and they are absolutely not jerks, neither are their friends.

You might want to look at what the poster was responding to. UVA boosters are always starting nonsense.

No, they are not. there is a distinct pattern on this board. Someone says something nasty about UVA and those who understand college admissions correct them. It's that simple. There is a lot of envy in the DCUM area because the entering class at UVA is so small compared to other state flagships and because it has gotten so difficult to get in. Many Virginian families cannot afford the difference in tuition between $35k (all in) and $80K at the privates. Bear in mind that the difference is often paid in after tax dollars, so you aren't talking about just $45K difference per year (we had to refinance our home to send our kids to college; fortunately we could do it). So many Virginians really want to get their children into UVA, W&M, Virginia Tech and the others. We have a superb system. But the availability of slots is not like Texas, California or Michigan. Hence the bitterness that sometimes pops up on this board. Also, Virginia Tech is a rival as is UMD so those students often come on here and make "jerk" comments.

Those parents that are fortunate enough to get their kids into these schools bank the difference if they have it. We did, so have $200K+ to pay now for grad school overseas then law school. That's why you see such bitterness here .... because a lot of money is at stake.

DP. I agree with you to some extent, but the bolded is ridiculous. I have seen just as many "jerk comments" from UVA boosters/parents/students about those rival schools - anything to put down a school that isn't UVA.

It's clear to me that anyone trashing another school - unless there is obvious reason to (like Oberlin, for instance) - is simply bitter that they or their kids didn't get accepted.

DP. No, the students from rival schools do frequent here and college confidential and reddit. They are the ones who write the insipid comments like "jerks".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech

Actually, CA does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech

Actually, CA does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what my child wants, the only school on this list that has the mix of degree programs in the majors/minors she wants is JMU and her getting in would be a big long shot.

Radford is actually the best for her as a state school and probably Shenandoah a very close second.

No, she isn’t a top student. I guess I don’t belong here, according to most, right?

Yes you do.

Best wishes to your daughter. Hopes she finds the best fit - for her.

Thank you. We are currently in another state getting ready to look at a school today. I have worked very hard to put together a list of target schools that fit her criteria and she hopefully has a shot of getting into. Hoping that seeing the schools will motivate her to do a little better in school this year.

I don't know about jerks but my kid nephew chose VT instead of UVA for engineering and I know 4 of his other friends that did the same. UVA has a lot of catching up to do in hard sciences.

\
Actually, 1) it doesn't - you are behind the times. Go see what Jim Ryan has been doing; and 2) that's why Virginia Tech exists. California and Michigan don't have a Virginia Tech