Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

FYI--most T20 schools offer only minimal merit awards, typically less than 10% of students receive any merit aid (check the CDS) and it is typically very SMALL. Take Northwestern: less than 10% of total students receive any merit aide. The avg amount is less than $5K. NU costs over $80K/year. So the merit they do award is virtually non-existent and won't likely make the university affordable for anyone. In my mind, that means they do NOT really offer merit awards (they never have and likely never will---they meet full financial need and have enough full pay students to fill the rest).

T50 schools that give merit: one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit. Their top award (outside of a few special full scholarships awarded to less than 1% of the incoming class) is only about 50% of the total cost for freshman year. My own kid at the 80th% for SAT/GPA got about 40% of total freshman cost covered. That leaves over 40K remaining for just freshman year. Assume a 5-7% increase for total costs each year (or just say 5K). Freshman year: 40K, Soph year: 45K, Jr Year: 50K, senior year: 55K. That's the cost even after the top general merit award. If parents can only afford 30K, that's a ton of loans at graduation.

Also for that T50: only 63% of those students without any Financial aid were granted ANY merit. That leaves 37% of students who wanted merit without any. And the average award is less than 25% of TOTAL costs. So yes, they offer much more merit than a T20, but in reality, it's not that much if one can only afford $30K/year.

Which one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit?

Anonymous wrote:While my DD was looking, we just said to be cognizant of price but just look to see what you might like (ie city? Big school? Etc).

Now that she’s a senior and getting ready to apply, I put togther a very simple spreadsheet to show

How much money is currently in her 529: $100,000
How much she can take in loans each year: $5500
How much we can afford/are willing to spend every month as if it were a car payment: $1600

I did the net price calculator for each school she is interested in and plugged in the numbers against the above. This (thankfully!) resulted in some schools that were more than we were willing to spend*, some right on the nose,’and some where the price is below and she can have the rest of the money to travel or for graduate school.

* I’ve moved away from saying “what we can afford” to “what we are willing to spend”. If we stopped saving money for retirement for the next four years we could totally afford more, but I am not willing to do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

FYI--most T20 schools offer only minimal merit awards, typically less than 10% of students receive any merit aid (check the CDS) and it is typically very SMALL. Take Northwestern: less than 10% of total students receive any merit aide. The avg amount is less than $5K. NU costs over $80K/year. So the merit they do award is virtually non-existent and won't likely make the university affordable for anyone. In my mind, that means they do NOT really offer merit awards (they never have and likely never will---they meet full financial need and have enough full pay students to fill the rest).

T50 schools that give merit: one in the 40-50 range is known for giving decent merit. Their top award (outside of a few special full scholarships awarded to less than 1% of the incoming class) is only about 50% of the total cost for freshman year. My own kid at the 80th% for SAT/GPA got about 40% of total freshman cost covered. That leaves over 40K remaining for just freshman year. Assume a 5-7% increase for total costs each year (or just say 5K). Freshman year: 40K, Soph year: 45K, Jr Year: 50K, senior year: 55K. That's the cost even after the top general merit award. If parents can only afford 30K, that's a ton of loans at graduation.

Also for that T50: only 63% of those students without any Financial aid were granted ANY merit. That leaves 37% of students who wanted merit without any. And the average award is less than 25% of TOTAL costs. So yes, they offer much more merit than a T20, but in reality, it's not that much if one can only afford $30K/year.

Anonymous wrote:OP, At least from what you have posted, it is not at all that you cannot have afforded for your child to go to Princeton, it is that you have made decisions about how to spend and save that make this an impractical at this point. Your child won’t know this. Your child is about to be an adult, and apparently he’s quite intelligent. Your child won’t know, and I would hope that you would provide reasoning, that you had made choices other than saving for potential high-ranking private colleges in terms of how your family spends its income. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, of course. We all need to make choices and balance opportunities and risks. But when you come online and say you can’t afford it, I think you know that, had been planning since your child was born, you actually could. You say you live in DC, why is that? I would never have lived somewhere as expensive as a TC as a child because my parents were saving for college. Again, that is not to say that that is better, but I feel like so many previous posters are approaching this as how to shield your child from some inevitable reality, when the reality is that their parents made certain choices, and I have no doubt that you are good parents and make good choices, but it is not as though fate has beststoe this on your child. You made decisions all along the way that resulted in this. These decisions may have been to provide your children with more time with your parents to do a shorter commuting distance, or to provide more activities or vacations or simply the comfort of a somewhat larger home. But those are the choices. At your income level, assuming You have had it for sometime and will have it for sometime, of course you can afford Princeton if that were the priority. Again, maybe many reasons, and good reasons, why it is not. But, to say you can’t afford it seems to be shielding the fact that the real answer is that you are not choosing for it to be a priority. Do you really think your kid won’t figure this out? And that you don’t want to be the person to frame that this is a complex thing, thinking about family finances over many years?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, At least from what you have posted, it is not at all that you cannot have afforded for your child to go to Princeton, it is that you have made decisions about how to spend and save that make this an impractical at this point. Your child won’t know this. Your child is about to be an adult, and apparently he’s quite intelligent. Your child won’t know, and I would hope that you would provide reasoning, that you had made choices other than saving for potential high-ranking private colleges in terms of how your family spends its income. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, of course. We all need to make choices and balance opportunities and risks. But when you come online and say you can’t afford it, I think you know that, had been planning since your child was born, you actually could. You say you live in DC, why is that? I would never have lived somewhere as expensive as a TC as a child because my parents were saving for college. Again, that is not to say that that is better, but I feel like so many previous posters are approaching this as how to shield your child from some inevitable reality, when the reality is that their parents made certain choices, and I have no doubt that you are good parents and make good choices, but it is not as though fate has beststoe this on your child. You made decisions all along the way that resulted in this. These decisions may have been to provide your children with more time with your parents to do a shorter commuting distance, or to provide more activities or vacations or simply the comfort of a somewhat larger home. But those are the choices. At your income level, assuming You have had it for sometime and will have it for sometime, of course you can afford Princeton if that were the priority. Again, maybe many reasons, and good reasons, why it is not. But, to say you can’t afford it seems to be shielding the fact that the real answer is that you are not choosing for it to be a priority. Do you really think your kid won’t figure this out? And that you don’t want to be the person to frame that this is a complex thing, thinking about family finances over many years?

Not OP but you sound like a real gem of a person. /s

Anonymous wrote:OP, At least from what you have posted, it is not at all that you cannot have afforded for your child to go to Princeton, it is that you have made decisions about how to spend and save that make this an impractical at this point. Your child won’t know this. Your child is about to be an adult, and apparently he’s quite intelligent. Your child won’t know, and I would hope that you would provide reasoning, that you had made choices other than saving for potential high-ranking private colleges in terms of how your family spends its income. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, of course. We all need to make choices and balance opportunities and risks. But when you come online and say you can’t afford it, I think you know that, had been planning since your child was born, you actually could. You say you live in DC, why is that? I would never have lived somewhere as expensive as a TC as a child because my parents were saving for college. Again, that is not to say that that is better, but I feel like so many previous posters are approaching this as how to shield your child from some inevitable reality, when the reality is that their parents made certain choices, and I have no doubt that you are good parents and make good choices, but it is not as though fate has beststoe this on your child. You made decisions all along the way that resulted in this. These decisions may have been to provide your children with more time with your parents to do a shorter commuting distance, or to provide more activities or vacations or simply the comfort of a somewhat larger home. But those are the choices. At your income level, assuming You have had it for sometime and will have it for sometime, of course you can afford Princeton if that were the priority. Again, maybe many reasons, and good reasons, why it is not. But, to say you can’t afford it seems to be shielding the fact that the real answer is that you are not choosing for it to be a priority. Do you really think your kid won’t figure this out? And that you don’t want to be the person to frame that this is a complex thing, thinking about family finances over many years?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

+1000

None of the T20 schools give significant merit, beyond a very few scholarships. 40-50%+ of students are full pay at most of those schools. The rest get some form of FA. I agree that it would be very hard for most 18yo to have the drive to apply to T20 schools and not be extremely disappointed when they get in but can't afford it.

Agree 100%. The thing is that OP isn't anywhere near being able to afford these schools. She reports being able to pay $30K/yearly and the schools are 80K+. But she makes too much for aid.
So a slight discount from the school or a $1K Rotary Club scholarship isn't going to move the needle. There is a $50K gap per year.

This is not to criticize OP---I'm in a similar position. I am being very, very, very transparent with my kids. "THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN AFFORD $80K SCHOOLS."
They've decided not to waste the time and emotional energy on applying.

Do you guys even know kids who had to turn down a college (or college period) because they couldn't afford it?
I have a feeling that his concept is foreign to most on DCUM.
I do----2 kids this past year. It's not pretty to tell a kid "hey, you got into your dream school but you're not going".
It has fractured a relationship I know.

T20 schools do give merit aid. T50 schools also offer generous scholarships to candidates in addition to aid. Parents also can request additional aid from the college. The timeline to negotiate for more aid can be very tight because some decisions are not released until after April 1st and the deposit is due by May 1st, but private schools have additional funds to offer, but you have to ask. Think of the situation like negotiating a salary for a job or negotiating a price for a car.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

The kid isn't applying blindly. Shes running the estimated finanacial aid calculator for each school, and she's getting a response that puts the school within the range. The kid is being more level headed and reasonable than the mom. If the EFC is within range, it's worth it to apply regular decision and see what the financial aid package comes out as. Plenty of schools, including "top schools" have a net price that is substantlally below the sticker price, even for families who are UMC/UC. It's worth it to apply and see what happens.

I would just tell the kid a bottom line and tell her that if the school doesn't come in under the bottom line, then it's a no=go. My friend told his daughter that she could not go to Northwestern because Northwestern could not bring their financial aid package/net price into range for their family. The kid lived. She went to another school and then Wall Street. It was fine.

That's not what OP is saying. Some of these schools are now $85K a year - and that's in after tax dollars. I hear OP saying they cannot afford these schools. period

OP said this in the very first post on this thread: "She keeps using their ‘calculators’ that indicate they will offer her some financial aid, but I think when it comes down to it my husband and I are going to be right over the cutoff with our salaries and won’t qualify for free money." OP is afraid and doesn;t want to try her luck. DC is ambitious and wants to try her luck. OP needs to run the calculators herself. She presumably has a better knowledge of where their money is. IF the calculator puts them in range, OP should let DC try. OP is running on fear, not facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:she says she wants to at least SEE if she can get in to these places like Princeton and Pomona. I have no idea why. What is the point?

Let he know what you can pay, run the NPC to see the estimate, then let her take her shot. This is her one chance to apply to college, and there's no good reason to keep her from seeing what happens. There's a good chance she won't get in, but then the school has squelched her dreams, not you. If she gets in, there's a small chance that the financial package is better than you feared. But even if she gets in and you can't afford it, she can take pride in being "good enough" for the school, even if it's too expensive to attend.

That said, I'd also make sure she has a robust list of schools of varying costs and selectivity, and including some strong schools known for merit aid. Bonus: some of those have early action, so she can get a response before the rest of her applications are due. It's great to know that college is a sure bet, especially one that is affordable, well before the rest of the schools release their decisions.

I'm sure she'll take great comfort in that when you tell her "sorry" as she clutches her acceptance letter. "You set me up - why did you give me false hope?"

DP. OP’s child is not an imbecile, so she would not act in such a dramatic and ridiculous fashion if admitted to her dream school given that her parents told her up front what they could afford to pay. In the scenario where she is admitted, she will have either found outside scholarships that will allow her to attend, or she will recognize that she can’t pull it off but will have a huge boost of confidence wherever she starts school knowing the dream school found her worthy. She will likely tell herself she’ll attend grad school there instead, and then, four years later, realize the obsession with dream schools are silly and pick her next steps based on fit. But she’ll always take pleasure in knowing that she was once admitted to a top school.

You are hopelessly naive. Top schools don't give merit. OP's kid isn't going to get any. FAFSA financial aid sounds unlikely. So WHY is she applying to schools over $80K a year? That is cruel and a hard fact about today's college admissions. NOw if OP's kid has something to sell (URM, Band instrument; first generation; legacy; etc.) it might be a different story. This (what can you reasonably afford) is the first question any public or private college counselor will ask. Because there are options separate from the 80K+ private but you have to reorient your kid THEN to apply only to what the parents can afford. To dangle something the parents cannot afford in front of DD is parentally irresponsible
+

Sticker price isn't the actual price at many schools. You really have to run the finacial aid calculator. Many schools will meet the family's financial need. Colorado College, for example, is $78,000+a year, but my family's estimated contribution at CC is $28,000. Pomona College has a sticker price of $75,000+, but my family's estimated contribution there is $63,000. Davidson College has a sticker price of $78,000, but my family's estimated price is $28,000. Similar types of schools, similar sticker prices, radically different estimated family contributions.
The calculators will give an estimate of what you'll be expected to pay.