Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 20:08     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
You know - maybe OP knows what she knows. She busted her ass and expects her kids to do the same in order to be successful as she defines it. DH and I are also successful, but our path was more about doing what we loved, working hard, and never buying into BS like where you go to school, what sort of travel team you kid is on, how much your parents make, or what sort of material things you have (like expensive cars, designer clothes etc.) to define you. We were not top students so our priorities are a little different. We encouraged our kids to work long and hard hours at menial jobs where they met co-workers supporting families on their same salaries. They had lots of friends. They went to non-prestigious but solid public colleges where they had a great time and got involved and thrived. They are killing it their grad school and professional lives. We pushed them to value friendships and family To be kind and do their own thing but work hard and help others. The intersection is motivation to work hard, be proud of your life, set expectations for values and have and good mental health. There are multiple paths to arrive at this place of "success" with your kids - but a little pushing one way or there other is necessary. I'm totally with OP there.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 19:45     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.


Did it work? Meaning, did the work ethic last past the time in which they are under your control (in college, there would be monetary control.)





OP here. DC is a rising HS senior, so only the future will tell. But what I do know is that NO ONE I know IRL has told me that they regret their parents pushing them -- it's only "I'm so grateful that my parents pushed me."


By guess is that you are not hearing a lot of people's honest thoughts. First, it's kind of unseemly for an adult to complain that their parents pushed too hard, even if it's true. Second, else where you have already mocked people who you think blame their parents. So why wouldn't anyone be honest wtih you?
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 19:44     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th


The reality is that most people, by definition, are average. I can't believe some of you are pushing middle age and pretending life is some race when the truth is that we all end up in hte middle.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 19:42     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th

but what op describes isn't "ambition" or hard work.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 19:41     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th


I think the way people penalize a person for wanting to do nothing but enjoy themselves even sadder. What is the point? We are all going to die? Why do I need to pushed into doing all these things I don't want to do when all I want to do is sit around and enjoy the present moment?


because it is not possible to enjoy the present moment all the time. if you never experience unpleasant things, you cannot enjoy anything either. such is the nature of experience. pleasure only works if there is something not pleasurable to compare it to.

meh. my kids experience enough "unpleasant" (or "not fun") things just living their lives- school subjects that don't come naturally to them, that annoying kid on the school bus, household chores, etc. I'm not going to engineer even more disliked things for them to do just for the sake of doing them.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 19:40     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:From your post, OP, it sounds like you have one dc? If so, and I am not being unkind, but your sample of one is really hard to use as a claim that pushing works.

I have two dc and they are so different! Same with friends and family. As an older parent, I will say that what we think is our parenting ( short of abuse, neglect, etc) is nature so don’t take all the credit😀 Most of what kids do and or become is nature.

One dc you push might fight, withdraw, do drugs, suicide. Another may comply and you think it’s your parenting.

Observe their strengths, recognize weaknesses. model and show respect, relay importance of them to meet obligations/ commitments, require home keeping and family support starting with small tasks, and provide empathy and leeway when they faulter.

This idea of must get As, must take most rigorous only works if child is capable and wants it. It is not you. Also remember life is long!

One example, one dc truly musically gifted. They asked for lessons and thrived. At some point in early teen years we fought about practice time, teacher disappointed as wanted more. However, I knew that dc just loved music and their adult self would be so happy that they could play their instrument. So I let perfection go, I told teacher to let their talent go ( as they did not want it for performance) and accepted less than what was required for practice.

Fast forward to dc22 yr old self who relaxes by playing instrument. If we had pushed, they would have stopped at 14 and the previous ten years would have been wasted.

Lastly, my parents modeled hard work but never pushed. I pushed myself and turned out great😀


Wow what a great story about the music! That's so good to understand why the kid wanted to get into it.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 19:20     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
From your post, OP, it sounds like you have one dc? If so, and I am not being unkind, but your sample of one is really hard to use as a claim that pushing works.

I have two dc and they are so different! Same with friends and family. As an older parent, I will say that what we think is our parenting ( short of abuse, neglect, etc) is nature so don’t take all the credit😀 Most of what kids do and or become is nature.

One dc you push might fight, withdraw, do drugs, suicide. Another may comply and you think it’s your parenting.

Observe their strengths, recognize weaknesses. model and show respect, relay importance of them to meet obligations/ commitments, require home keeping and family support starting with small tasks, and provide empathy and leeway when they faulter.

This idea of must get As, must take most rigorous only works if child is capable and wants it. It is not you. Also remember life is long!

One example, one dc truly musically gifted. They asked for lessons and thrived. At some point in early teen years we fought about practice time, teacher disappointed as wanted more. However, I knew that dc just loved music and their adult self would be so happy that they could play their instrument. So I let perfection go, I told teacher to let their talent go ( as they did not want it for performance) and accepted less than what was required for practice.

Fast forward to dc22 yr old self who relaxes by playing instrument. If we had pushed, they would have stopped at 14 and the previous ten years would have been wasted.

Lastly, my parents modeled hard work but never pushed. I pushed myself and turned out great😀
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 18:28     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Because I've seen them crying in the bathrooms of my HS. Because they commit suicide. Because it's abusive.
Etc. etc. etc. Keep pushing them, when they go away and never come back to visit, you can remember how much you triggered them.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 18:25     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th


I think the way people penalize a person for wanting to do nothing but enjoy themselves even sadder. What is the point? We are all going to die? Why do I need to pushed into doing all these things I don't want to do when all I want to do is sit around and enjoy the present moment?


because it is not possible to enjoy the present moment all the time. if you never experience unpleasant things, you cannot enjoy anything either. such is the nature of experience. pleasure only works if there is something not pleasurable to compare it to.


I don't think PP meant that we should literally be doing only pleasurable things. Life, no matter what, is going to throw very unpleasurable things at you that you need to overcome. Personally, with my kids, it's not necessary to engineer difficult experiences that build grit. Maybe other kids and other people are different.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 18:10     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
The existence of this thread surprises me. I find here, especially amongst the college forum (yes, I know full of nut jobs and boosters) that people push their kids really hard, they're taking the SAT prep courses, taking those tests multiple times, talking to college advisors, paying a fortune for their help strategizing and writing essays. Also there's a HUGE push to do lots of APS or IB in the MCPS HS discussions.

That's all. I'm surprised by the existence of the thread.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 18:00     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.


I'm fine pushing DC. But, I also know when they have a boundary I should respect. I'm not going to make DC do something she absolutely loathes or is horrible at. Just like I wouldn't for myself. Because I respect her.

I also find your black and white view of parenting a bit controlling, and more than a little disturbing.

Yeah, OP, you seem way too invested in the idea that you can personally build your kid to fit some model person you have in your mind. Your DC is their own person, not your creation to show off to the world. The fact that you contemptuously characterize your own child as "of fairly average intelligence" (seriously? IQ tests are ridiculous) and "naturally lazy" is pretty telling, as is your tired old trope that "Americans these days lack a strong work ethic." Are you also a businessman that thinks all your employees are slackers and that you shouldn't have to pay minimum wage? Work is the least important part of life, sweetie, and your notion of "success" is really twisted. Many of what a lot of Americans consider the most "successful" people - which by your measure is undoubtedly job title and accumulated wealth - tend to be lazy mediocre white guys who started on 3rd base and spend a lot of their days golfing and drinking and giving themselves raises. But go on pushing your poor kid to waste their childhood doing a ton of things they don't like and aren't interested in so you can try for bragging rights. You are gross.

Different PP.
There is consensus on the bolded statement for sure. Not sure how that helps you decide that OP is gross though. 'sweetie'? You're gross.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 17:56     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Come on, none of this is about the OP’s kid — it’s about her. She in confident that she got to her current position in life based on her own hard work. Obviously. And she’s confident that she’s harder working than most people, which is why she deserves everything she has. And so, since her child must turn out exactly like her, she must insist that her child work very hard. If the child doesn’t work hard and recreate the mother’s life path, then mom might have to consider that her path wasn’t the best/worthiest/most deserving. If it turns out that the soulless grind of her work wasn’t in fact the only route to happiness and success…. That’s too much to have to deal with.

Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 17:53     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.

With this language, it's clear you aren't interested in answers, but in telling parents how they are wrong. Might be better to just rephrase it.

Also, extracurricularly is not a word.


Right? This is so obviously asked in bad faith. Like there's no middle ground between making your kid do the hardest everything and just letting them do whatever they want.


Listen, there's a 19-page thread that is also "genuinely curious" and "not in bad faith" asking us whether we "plan on keeping our kids masked forever to eternity." So there is a ton of leeway in mixing question and expression of judgement.
I agree with you OP.
It's perfectly fine in their own frame of reference. Rich kids don't ever need to develop a work ethic. They just need to develop a shining confident personality, perhaps boosted by a nice physique from some jock sports, and whatever plastics correction is needed by the right surgeon in time. Their parents will pay for the good school and the networking necessary to turn the good school into the high-paying job.
If hard work ruled, we would be a healthier society with solutions to many of our problems, and we'd live on a healthier planet.
So continue to instill a good work ethic in your kid, I'll do the same in mine, and maybe our kids will help make a difference and solve those problems. As long as our kids' work props the ego and offshore accounts of those lazy rich kids, of course.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 17:52     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th


I think the way people penalize a person for wanting to do nothing but enjoy themselves even sadder. What is the point? We are all going to die? Why do I need to pushed into doing all these things I don't want to do when all I want to do is sit around and enjoy the present moment?


what is sadder is that an adult human still does not understand the very basics of human psychology. the kids need to learn that not everything is pleasant. after unpleasant practice comes a pleasant sense of mastery. after somewhat unpleasant work comes a pleasant paycheck. if you only got a paycheck without work you would quickly get bored - like many rich kids do. and they rarely live pleasant lives, often use drugs etc.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2022 17:48     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th


I think the way people penalize a person for wanting to do nothing but enjoy themselves even sadder. What is the point? We are all going to die? Why do I need to pushed into doing all these things I don't want to do when all I want to do is sit around and enjoy the present moment?


because it is not possible to enjoy the present moment all the time. if you never experience unpleasant things, you cannot enjoy anything either. such is the nature of experience. pleasure only works if there is something not pleasurable to compare it to.