Anonymous wrote:I think this means sex is more important than honesty for the cheater and therefore it's a values issue with a cheater, not a sex issue. If it were sex issue, they would divorce instead of cheating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These men don’t actually want open marriages. Women generally need an emotional connection to enjoy sex, so if a woman were to take time out of her life, leaving more household tasks and childcare up to her husband, to go out and finally get that emotional and physical intimacy she craves, a guy would lose his shit. But that’s what would actually be equal.

I think the idea that women need emotional intimacy to enjoy sex stems from gendered stereotypes that aren't all that well based in reality.

Anonymous wrote:These men don’t actually want open marriages. Women generally need an emotional connection to enjoy sex, so if a woman were to take time out of her life, leaving more household tasks and childcare up to her husband, to go out and finally get that emotional and physical intimacy she craves, a guy would lose his shit. But that’s what would actually be equal.

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The person who wants change has to be the one to change. If you’re unsatisfied with the amount of sex, you are the one who needs to make changes, particularly if you have the spare time, spare energy, and spare money for an affair.

If the couple had more sex at the beginning of their relationship, and now is having less because the wife will not participate, then your point is nonsense.

Look at your words, and really try to understand what you have written. Apply your reasoning to another aspect of married life.

If at the beginning of the marriage the DH shared all of his earnings, but now only shares 5% of them, the relationship has changed. If that 5% equaled the same amount of money (in inflation-adjusted dollars), the relationship has still changed.

Making a unilateral change and then demanding your spouse change to regain the status quo is what you are suggesting.

She can get her 50% in court. No court will order her to have sex with him. Your parallel doesn’t hold up.

Marriage does not entitle you to sex. The only thing that ensures you get sex within marriage is being someone your spouse wants to have sex with.

Know what else marriage doesn’t eNtItLe you to? Fidelity.

I mean it’s literally in the vows, and infidelity is a crime in several states including Virginia, so I beg to differ.

Wow so Nobody in Virginia cheats? Because it’s in the vow and you could go to jail? Who knew. Guess you are entitled to fidelity. So go right on being sexless because he won’t cheat. Because those Vows.

NP. Why are you so belligerent? The pp stated the law (as he/she understood in VA). Your reply is non-sequitor and so what's up with that.

The idea that a spouse can deny sex while still being "entitled" to fidelity is preposterous. I'm not talking about the occasional "just not feeling it .. so no" I mean consistent rejection resulting in very infrequent marital sex. PP then goes on to state that vows and archaic VA laws makes this OK / expected. Um, just no. A spouse is totally free to not want sex, they should expect their partner will be going elsewhere for sex. If these terms are unacceptable then sexless people should file for divorce.

Just because you keep saying that no sex means cheating is allowed doesn't make it so. If you don't have sex the way you like or how often you like, divorce her for pete's sake. Trust and honesty do matter in a marriage. You'll come up with some reason why divorce is not good for you (maybe couched as not good for kids, not good for spouse but in reality it's not good for you) but really do the minimum and tell her you intend to cheat, and then the issue is with her. Let her solve it (divorce or open marriage or fix the sex issue).

Go back and read the OP and link. It’s not just me saying than no sex is permission to go elsewhere it is (practically) every man who has found himself in a sexless marriage. If you don’t want sex with your spouse just divorce him for Pete’s sake! Or accept that your celibacy means the marriage is open for him.

Why don't YOU divorce HER then, Sexless Marriage Guy?

Same reason the sexless wife doesn’t file: the marriage is perfect in every, except for no sex. The man going elsewhere for sex saves their marriage, a win-win. Just like the article says.

Oh buddy this isn’t why sexless women don’t file. They don’t file because they don’t want to lose half of their time with their kids, or the don’t want to expose their kids to additional dysfunction. They don’t file because they’re financially abused or worried their husbands will murder them. It’s not because their marriages are perfect.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

The person who wants change has to be the one to change. If you’re unsatisfied with the amount of sex, you are the one who needs to make changes, particularly if you have the spare time, spare energy, and spare money for an affair.

If the couple had more sex at the beginning of their relationship, and now is having less because the wife will not participate, then your point is nonsense.

Look at your words, and really try to understand what you have written. Apply your reasoning to another aspect of married life.

If at the beginning of the marriage the DH shared all of his earnings, but now only shares 5% of them, the relationship has changed. If that 5% equaled the same amount of money (in inflation-adjusted dollars), the relationship has still changed.

Making a unilateral change and then demanding your spouse change to regain the status quo is what you are suggesting.

She can get her 50% in court. No court will order her to have sex with him. Your parallel doesn’t hold up.

Marriage does not entitle you to sex. The only thing that ensures you get sex within marriage is being someone your spouse wants to have sex with.

Know what else marriage doesn’t eNtItLe you to? Fidelity.

I mean it’s literally in the vows, and infidelity is a crime in several states including Virginia, so I beg to differ.

Wow so Nobody in Virginia cheats? Because it’s in the vow and you could go to jail? Who knew. Guess you are entitled to fidelity. So go right on being sexless because he won’t cheat. Because those Vows.

NP. Why are you so belligerent? The pp stated the law (as he/she understood in VA). Your reply is non-sequitor and so what's up with that.

The idea that a spouse can deny sex while still being "entitled" to fidelity is preposterous. I'm not talking about the occasional "just not feeling it .. so no" I mean consistent rejection resulting in very infrequent marital sex. PP then goes on to state that vows and archaic VA laws makes this OK / expected. Um, just no. A spouse is totally free to not want sex, they should expect their partner will be going elsewhere for sex. If these terms are unacceptable then sexless people should file for divorce.

Just because you keep saying that no sex means cheating is allowed doesn't make it so. If you don't have sex the way you like or how often you like, divorce her for pete's sake. Trust and honesty do matter in a marriage. You'll come up with some reason why divorce is not good for you (maybe couched as not good for kids, not good for spouse but in reality it's not good for you) but really do the minimum and tell her you intend to cheat, and then the issue is with her. Let her solve it (divorce or open marriage or fix the sex issue).

Go back and read the OP and link. It’s not just me saying than no sex is permission to go elsewhere it is (practically) every man who has found himself in a sexless marriage. If you don’t want sex with your spouse just divorce him for Pete’s sake! Or accept that your celibacy means the marriage is open for him.

The difference is honesty. The spouse who is cheating is cheating and lying. If it’s a given that a spouse can cheat if they’re not having sex at some predetermined frequency, then surely there should be no need to lie about it?

What does a spouse who has been cheating do when or if his spouse offers sex? Turn them down? Or expose them without their consent to STIs?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

The person who wants change has to be the one to change. If you’re unsatisfied with the amount of sex, you are the one who needs to make changes, particularly if you have the spare time, spare energy, and spare money for an affair.

If the couple had more sex at the beginning of their relationship, and now is having less because the wife will not participate, then your point is nonsense.

Look at your words, and really try to understand what you have written. Apply your reasoning to another aspect of married life.

If at the beginning of the marriage the DH shared all of his earnings, but now only shares 5% of them, the relationship has changed. If that 5% equaled the same amount of money (in inflation-adjusted dollars), the relationship has still changed.

Making a unilateral change and then demanding your spouse change to regain the status quo is what you are suggesting.

She can get her 50% in court. No court will order her to have sex with him. Your parallel doesn’t hold up.

Marriage does not entitle you to sex. The only thing that ensures you get sex within marriage is being someone your spouse wants to have sex with.

Know what else marriage doesn’t eNtItLe you to? Fidelity.

I mean it’s literally in the vows, and infidelity is a crime in several states including Virginia, so I beg to differ.

Wow so Nobody in Virginia cheats? Because it’s in the vow and you could go to jail? Who knew. Guess you are entitled to fidelity. So go right on being sexless because he won’t cheat. Because those Vows.

NP. Why are you so belligerent? The pp stated the law (as he/she understood in VA). Your reply is non-sequitor and so what's up with that.

The idea that a spouse can deny sex while still being "entitled" to fidelity is preposterous. I'm not talking about the occasional "just not feeling it .. so no" I mean consistent rejection resulting in very infrequent marital sex. PP then goes on to state that vows and archaic VA laws makes this OK / expected. Um, just no. A spouse is totally free to not want sex, they should expect their partner will be going elsewhere for sex. If these terms are unacceptable then sexless people should file for divorce.

Just because you keep saying that no sex means cheating is allowed doesn't make it so. If you don't have sex the way you like or how often you like, divorce her for pete's sake. Trust and honesty do matter in a marriage. You'll come up with some reason why divorce is not good for you (maybe couched as not good for kids, not good for spouse but in reality it's not good for you) but really do the minimum and tell her you intend to cheat, and then the issue is with her. Let her solve it (divorce or open marriage or fix the sex issue).

Go back and read the OP and link. It’s not just me saying than no sex is permission to go elsewhere it is (practically) every man who has found himself in a sexless marriage. If you don’t want sex with your spouse just divorce him for Pete’s sake! Or accept that your celibacy means the marriage is open for him.

Is the marriage open for her too?

Of course! But she doesn’t want sex (right?) so she has zero drive to act on this.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

The person who wants change has to be the one to change. If you’re unsatisfied with the amount of sex, you are the one who needs to make changes, particularly if you have the spare time, spare energy, and spare money for an affair.

If the couple had more sex at the beginning of their relationship, and now is having less because the wife will not participate, then your point is nonsense.

Look at your words, and really try to understand what you have written. Apply your reasoning to another aspect of married life.

If at the beginning of the marriage the DH shared all of his earnings, but now only shares 5% of them, the relationship has changed. If that 5% equaled the same amount of money (in inflation-adjusted dollars), the relationship has still changed.

Making a unilateral change and then demanding your spouse change to regain the status quo is what you are suggesting.

She can get her 50% in court. No court will order her to have sex with him. Your parallel doesn’t hold up.

Marriage does not entitle you to sex. The only thing that ensures you get sex within marriage is being someone your spouse wants to have sex with.

Know what else marriage doesn’t eNtItLe you to? Fidelity.

I mean it’s literally in the vows, and infidelity is a crime in several states including Virginia, so I beg to differ.

Wow so Nobody in Virginia cheats? Because it’s in the vow and you could go to jail? Who knew. Guess you are entitled to fidelity. So go right on being sexless because he won’t cheat. Because those Vows.

NP. Why are you so belligerent? The pp stated the law (as he/she understood in VA). Your reply is non-sequitor and so what's up with that.

The idea that a spouse can deny sex while still being "entitled" to fidelity is preposterous. I'm not talking about the occasional "just not feeling it .. so no" I mean consistent rejection resulting in very infrequent marital sex. PP then goes on to state that vows and archaic VA laws makes this OK / expected. Um, just no. A spouse is totally free to not want sex, they should expect their partner will be going elsewhere for sex. If these terms are unacceptable then sexless people should file for divorce.

Just because you keep saying that no sex means cheating is allowed doesn't make it so. If you don't have sex the way you like or how often you like, divorce her for pete's sake. Trust and honesty do matter in a marriage. You'll come up with some reason why divorce is not good for you (maybe couched as not good for kids, not good for spouse but in reality it's not good for you) but really do the minimum and tell her you intend to cheat, and then the issue is with her. Let her solve it (divorce or open marriage or fix the sex issue).

Go back and read the OP and link. It’s not just me saying than no sex is permission to go elsewhere it is (practically) every man who has found himself in a sexless marriage. If you don’t want sex with your spouse just divorce him for Pete’s sake! Or accept that your celibacy means the marriage is open for him.

Why don't YOU divorce HER then, Sexless Marriage Guy?

Same reason the sexless wife doesn’t file: the marriage is perfect in every, except for no sex. The man going elsewhere for sex saves their marriage, a win-win. Just like the article says.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The person who wants change has to be the one to change. If you’re unsatisfied with the amount of sex, you are the one who needs to make changes, particularly if you have the spare time, spare energy, and spare money for an affair.

If the couple had more sex at the beginning of their relationship, and now is having less because the wife will not participate, then your point is nonsense.

Look at your words, and really try to understand what you have written. Apply your reasoning to another aspect of married life.

If at the beginning of the marriage the DH shared all of his earnings, but now only shares 5% of them, the relationship has changed. If that 5% equaled the same amount of money (in inflation-adjusted dollars), the relationship has still changed.

Making a unilateral change and then demanding your spouse change to regain the status quo is what you are suggesting.

She can get her 50% in court. No court will order her to have sex with him. Your parallel doesn’t hold up.

Marriage does not entitle you to sex. The only thing that ensures you get sex within marriage is being someone your spouse wants to have sex with.

Know what else marriage doesn’t eNtItLe you to? Fidelity.

I mean it’s literally in the vows, and infidelity is a crime in several states including Virginia, so I beg to differ.

Wow so Nobody in Virginia cheats? Because it’s in the vow and you could go to jail? Who knew. Guess you are entitled to fidelity. So go right on being sexless because he won’t cheat. Because those Vows.

NP. Why are you so belligerent? The pp stated the law (as he/she understood in VA). Your reply is non-sequitor and so what's up with that.

The idea that a spouse can deny sex while still being "entitled" to fidelity is preposterous. I'm not talking about the occasional "just not feeling it .. so no" I mean consistent rejection resulting in very infrequent marital sex. PP then goes on to state that vows and archaic VA laws makes this OK / expected. Um, just no. A spouse is totally free to not want sex, they should expect their partner will be going elsewhere for sex. If these terms are unacceptable then sexless people should file for divorce.

Just because you keep saying that no sex means cheating is allowed doesn't make it so. If you don't have sex the way you like or how often you like, divorce her for pete's sake. Trust and honesty do matter in a marriage. You'll come up with some reason why divorce is not good for you (maybe couched as not good for kids, not good for spouse but in reality it's not good for you) but really do the minimum and tell her you intend to cheat, and then the issue is with her. Let her solve it (divorce or open marriage or fix the sex issue).

Go back and read the OP and link. It’s not just me saying than no sex is permission to go elsewhere it is (practically) every man who has found himself in a sexless marriage. If you don’t want sex with your spouse just divorce him for Pete’s sake! Or accept that your celibacy means the marriage is open for him.

Is the marriage open for her too?

Of course! But she doesn’t want sex (right?) so she has zero drive to act on this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever thought about whether you should make yourself more attractive, better in bed etc. so she didn't feel that way? Sometimes it's the wife but you should make sure it's not you. Also, cheating is unforgivable, good luck living with yourself

--wife who doesn't treat sex as a chore

How do you know if you aren't good in bed if your wife won't give you suggestions?

Does she ever O? That’s one sign.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever thought about whether you should make yourself more attractive, better in bed etc. so she didn't feel that way? Sometimes it's the wife but you should make sure it's not you. Also, cheating is unforgivable, good luck living with yourself

--wife who doesn't treat sex as a chore

How do you know if you aren't good in bed if your wife won't give you suggestions?

Anonymous wrote:I don't regard sex with my DH as a chore because:
- he is always kind to me and cares about my feelings
- he is an equal partner at home
- he doesn't belittle me or dismiss my concerns
- he is very giving and skilled in bed

My friends who don't want to have sex with their husbands- it's because their husbands are jerks to them. They don't want to divorce b.c they know the husbands will just dive into another relationship b.c they can't function as adults on their own--- and then they will lose what little help that they have at home. You know when their Husbands "babysit" the kids once a month.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone posted this article and it really hit home, particularly this passage:

"To them, their wives treat sex as a chore and lack all enthusiasm about it. Men internalise that disinterest as, “I’m not good enough” and “I’m a disappointment.” They feel undervalued not only as a sexual partner, but as a person."

https://www.marieclaire.com.au/why-do-men-cheat

I have cheated on my wife 2x in short term affairs over our 18 year marriage. It really does seem to stem from her treating sex as a chore, an infrequent one at that, and no matter how many conversations I have, nothing changes. Is there a way to learn to accept this or does it always end in cheating? Any men out there that did therapy that helped?

You are a jerk.

Totally worthless human being.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

The person who wants change has to be the one to change. If you’re unsatisfied with the amount of sex, you are the one who needs to make changes, particularly if you have the spare time, spare energy, and spare money for an affair.

If the couple had more sex at the beginning of their relationship, and now is having less because the wife will not participate, then your point is nonsense.

Look at your words, and really try to understand what you have written. Apply your reasoning to another aspect of married life.

If at the beginning of the marriage the DH shared all of his earnings, but now only shares 5% of them, the relationship has changed. If that 5% equaled the same amount of money (in inflation-adjusted dollars), the relationship has still changed.

Making a unilateral change and then demanding your spouse change to regain the status quo is what you are suggesting.

She can get her 50% in court. No court will order her to have sex with him. Your parallel doesn’t hold up.

Marriage does not entitle you to sex. The only thing that ensures you get sex within marriage is being someone your spouse wants to have sex with.

Many marriages would not survive without the help of a mistress.

Know what else marriage doesn’t eNtItLe you to? Fidelity.

I mean it’s literally in the vows, and infidelity is a crime in several states including Virginia, so I beg to differ.

Wow so Nobody in Virginia cheats? Because it’s in the vow and you could go to jail? Who knew. Guess you are entitled to fidelity. So go right on being sexless because he won’t cheat. Because those Vows.

NP. Why are you so belligerent? The pp stated the law (as he/she understood in VA). Your reply is non-sequitor and so what's up with that.

The idea that a spouse can deny sex while still being "entitled" to fidelity is preposterous. I'm not talking about the occasional "just not feeling it .. so no" I mean consistent rejection resulting in very infrequent marital sex. PP then goes on to state that vows and archaic VA laws makes this OK / expected. Um, just no. A spouse is totally free to not want sex, they should expect their partner will be going elsewhere for sex. If these terms are unacceptable then sexless people should file for divorce.

Just because you keep saying that no sex means cheating is allowed doesn't make it so. If you don't have sex the way you like or how often you like, divorce her for pete's sake. Trust and honesty do matter in a marriage. You'll come up with some reason why divorce is not good for you (maybe couched as not good for kids, not good for spouse but in reality it's not good for you) but really do the minimum and tell her you intend to cheat, and then the issue is with her. Let her solve it (divorce or open marriage or fix the sex issue).

Go back and read the OP and link. It’s not just me saying than no sex is permission to go elsewhere it is (practically) every man who has found himself in a sexless marriage. If you don’t want sex with your spouse just divorce him for Pete’s sake! Or accept that your celibacy means the marriage is open for him.

Why don't YOU divorce HER then, Sexless Marriage Guy?

Same reason the sexless wife doesn’t file: the marriage is perfect in every, except for no sex. The man going elsewhere for sex saves their marriage, a win-win. Just like the article says.