Many of you seem to be unfamiliar with IDEA, the Individuals with disabilities education act. If you are unfamiliar with educational law and policy you have no business pretending you know how to fix the system. Some people are so desperate for tax payers to fund their child’s private education and it is so transparent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

That kid needs to be removed from the regular class and put in a separate one. We can’t sacrifice the learning of the 25 other students for some doubtful outcome of a troubled student.

Just to show how messed up the schools are at my child’s they hired a mental health counselor, but they don’t have a science teacher.

He didn't need to be removed, he needed in class support.

As in one dedicated teacher to distract the troubled kid so that the rest can do their reading?

Sorry, but with the limited resources schools have, that’s just not a sensible approach.

What would you do? If teachers can't have the level of in class support that is needed, then maybe we need to go back to separate classrooms? Integrated classrooms without support doesn't work. Separate classrooms cause some parents to scream about inequality.

I didn't merely distract him. I worked with him to do his work, on his level. He had a modified lesson plan that the special ed teacher developed.

Sorry, I still don’t see how it makes sense. The student can’t read at 5th grade level, he has a different lesson plan, and a dedicated teacher is brought in to work with him. Nevertheless he stays in the same class, though it doesn’t seem there’s much interaction with the rest of the students, or any overlap in the curriculum. You get him to read a text at second grade level, and that’s integration and support.

I weep for the kids in that school. The only solution I see is a voucher system, so they at least have a chance to get an education somewhere else.

Disgusting and shameful that you think that having to work alongside people with disabilities is a tragedy. They are entitled to full inclusion. It is not an indication that the government should be giving YOU money that a child with (mild) special needs is allowed to stay in their educational environment. You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

That kid needs to be removed from the regular class and put in a separate one. We can’t sacrifice the learning of the 25 other students for some doubtful outcome of a troubled student.

Just to show how messed up the schools are at my child’s they hired a mental health counselor, but they don’t have a science teacher.

He didn't need to be removed, he needed in class support.

As in one dedicated teacher to distract the troubled kid so that the rest can do their reading?

Sorry, but with the limited resources schools have, that’s just not a sensible approach.

What would you do? If teachers can't have the level of in class support that is needed, then maybe we need to go back to separate classrooms? Integrated classrooms without support doesn't work. Separate classrooms cause some parents to scream about inequality.

I didn't merely distract him. I worked with him to do his work, on his level. He had a modified lesson plan that the special ed teacher developed.

Sorry, I still don’t see how it makes sense. The student can’t read at 5th grade level, he has a different lesson plan, and a dedicated teacher is brought in to work with him. Nevertheless he stays in the same class, though it doesn’t seem there’s much interaction with the rest of the students, or any overlap in the curriculum. You get him to read a text at second grade level, and that’s integration and support.

I weep for the kids in that school. The only solution I see is a voucher system, so they at least have a chance to get an education somewhere else.

Private schools can’t support SPED kids and won’t take them, so you much mean vouchers for the other kids, correct?

Some privates cater to SPED. And kids with significant learning disabilities, who have more money spent on them in public school should have more money in vouchers, so they can pay to attend a school with more supports.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

That kid needs to be removed from the regular class and put in a separate one. We can’t sacrifice the learning of the 25 other students for some doubtful outcome of a troubled student.

Just to show how messed up the schools are at my child’s they hired a mental health counselor, but they don’t have a science teacher.

He didn't need to be removed, he needed in class support.

As in one dedicated teacher to distract the troubled kid so that the rest can do their reading?

Sorry, but with the limited resources schools have, that’s just not a sensible approach.

What would you do? If teachers can't have the level of in class support that is needed, then maybe we need to go back to separate classrooms? Integrated classrooms without support doesn't work. Separate classrooms cause some parents to scream about inequality.

I didn't merely distract him. I worked with him to do his work, on his level. He had a modified lesson plan that the special ed teacher developed.

Sorry, I still don’t see how it makes sense. The student can’t read at 5th grade level, he has a different lesson plan, and a dedicated teacher is brought in to work with him. Nevertheless he stays in the same class, though it doesn’t seem there’s much interaction with the rest of the students, or any overlap in the curriculum. You get him to read a text at second grade level, and that’s integration and support.

I weep for the kids in that school. The only solution I see is a voucher system, so they at least have a chance to get an education somewhere else.

Private schools can’t support SPED kids and won’t take them, so you much mean vouchers for the other kids, correct?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

That kid needs to be removed from the regular class and put in a separate one. We can’t sacrifice the learning of the 25 other students for some doubtful outcome of a troubled student.

Just to show how messed up the schools are at my child’s they hired a mental health counselor, but they don’t have a science teacher.

He didn't need to be removed, he needed in class support.

As in one dedicated teacher to distract the troubled kid so that the rest can do their reading?

Sorry, but with the limited resources schools have, that’s just not a sensible approach.

What would you do? If teachers can't have the level of in class support that is needed, then maybe we need to go back to separate classrooms? Integrated classrooms without support doesn't work. Separate classrooms cause some parents to scream about inequality.

I didn't merely distract him. I worked with him to do his work, on his level. He had a modified lesson plan that the special ed teacher developed.

Sorry, I still don’t see how it makes sense. The student can’t read at 5th grade level, he has a different lesson plan, and a dedicated teacher is brought in to work with him. Nevertheless he stays in the same class, though it doesn’t seem there’s much interaction with the rest of the students, or any overlap in the curriculum. You get him to read a text at second grade level, and that’s integration and support.

I weep for the kids in that school. The only solution I see is a voucher system, so they at least have a chance to get an education somewhere else.

Anonymous wrote:Some people seem to think special education is a place you are sent to avoid troubling all the “normal kids”. It is not. Special education is an escalating series of supports designed to minimize the impact of a student’s disability on their ability to access the grade level curriculum. Every student is entitled to this, including those who are disruptive. Removing a student from their least restrictive environment requires lots of documentation and evidence that the school implemented different interventions without success. This includes the support of a 1:1 in the classroom.

In real life, if you want your child to have a decent learning environment that is stimulating and free from disruption and even violence, you go to an institution that’s a school and not a hospice. That means either a private school that can kick out the troublemakers, or a public school in a neighborhood that is rich enough that the parents of these troublemakers have enough resources to manage their children’s situation.
If a child is unlucky enough to go to schools with the troublemakers, and the parents can’t afford the previous options, then tough luck. The state only needs to provide FAPE, whatever that means, possibly meeting the lowest bar on the common core standards. If you don’t like it go to private, as if that’s an option for a blue collar family struggling to pay the rent.
We don’t give a crap about that kid’s future because there’s documentation to do. Maybe you can do something if you track the students in different groups based on their academic ability, so that the students that want to learn are put in the same classroom, but nope, that’s not equitable.
The low income kid will do a 13 year sentence to FAPE, in a public school correctional facility. The rich counterparts, will spend the 13 years having access to advanced math, science laboratory, literature and writing classes. If you are a teacher, what class would you rather teach, likely not the zoo, so you’ll do everything you can to find a way out for your own sanity. The ones that are left, manage to do so because they mentally checked out. Meanwhile the education officials will babble about equity, anti racism, learning gap, even though they are the problem, but it’s much easier to do a zoom seminar than fix problems.
OP, make sure you have the best interest of your child in mind. If the teacher is at the point of being fed up and leaving teaching, that’s a sign things are really bad in your child’s classroom. Find a way to take her out.

Some people seem to think special education is a place you are sent to avoid troubling all the “normal kids”. It is not. Special education is an escalating series of supports designed to minimize the impact of a student’s disability on their ability to access the grade level curriculum. Every student is entitled to this, including those who are disruptive. Removing a student from their least restrictive environment requires lots of documentation and evidence that the school implemented different interventions without success. This includes the support of a 1:1 in the classroom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it very odd that special needs students get one on one time, extra attention etc, but nobody even dreams about giving that level of support to a child that is truly intellectually gifted.

They do and there specific placements for students such as the ones you describe.

I don’t know of any case of a gifted student having a teacher or a teacher aid spending the entire day one in one with him. It just shows how the priorities are set up in our public education system.

Yes, the priorities are set-up for students who need support so they can TRY to be successful. The gifted students can already successfully met the state standards. There are laws that gifted students receive differentiation, but it’s like 8 hours a month. That is met by Level II-IV services. The resources ARE being spent in the correct place.

No, the resources are not spend in the right place. As posted in the thread often resources are spend disproportionately on a student with deep behavioral issues at the expense of the rest of the class.
If you think the goal of educating a gifted student is meeting the state standards, you are terribly mistaken.

Federal law of what public schools are required to provide is FAPE- free and appropriate public education. This does not mean everyone gets the best education possible for them, it means having access to state standards. If you don't like it, private school is your better option.

As a parent, I don’t like it, because the taxes I pay don’t result in my child getting an appropriate education. From this thread it looks like a lot of teachers don’t like it either, to the point of being fed up and leaving the profession. Doubtful students like being in the classroom with chairs thrown around. At least you like it.

My comment wasn't in regards to student behaviors. It was referencing the statement about gifted students. There's a reason that gifted students don't get the same amount of funding as students with academic, and yes, behavioral disabilities. That reason is FAPE. They are accessing the state standards, so funding isn't spent on them in the same way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

That kid needs to be removed from the regular class and put in a separate one. We can’t sacrifice the learning of the 25 other students for some doubtful outcome of a troubled student.

Just to show how messed up the schools are at my child’s they hired a mental health counselor, but they don’t have a science teacher.

He didn't need to be removed, he needed in class support.

As in one dedicated teacher to distract the troubled kid so that the rest can do their reading?

Sorry, but with the limited resources schools have, that’s just not a sensible approach.

What would you do? If teachers can't have the level of in class support that is needed, then maybe we need to go back to separate classrooms? Integrated classrooms without support doesn't work. Separate classrooms cause some parents to scream about inequality.

I didn't merely distract him. I worked with him to do his work, on his level. He had a modified lesson plan that the special ed teacher developed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

That kid needs to be removed from the regular class and put in a separate one. We can’t sacrifice the learning of the 25 other students for some doubtful outcome of a troubled student.

Just to show how messed up the schools are at my child’s they hired a mental health counselor, but they don’t have a science teacher.

He didn't need to be removed, he needed in class support.

As in one dedicated teacher to distract the troubled kid so that the rest can do their reading?

Sorry, but with the limited resources schools have, that’s just not a sensible approach.

For many of those kids there’s not much the school can do, they are just managing a bad situation from turning into something worse. If your child is in such an environment at school, the right thing to do is change schools, otherwise you are screwing your kid over.

People that talk about in class support etc, let’s see if you’d do it when your child’s future is on the line.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

That kid needs to be removed from the regular class and put in a separate one. We can’t sacrifice the learning of the 25 other students for some doubtful outcome of a troubled student.

Just to show how messed up the schools are at my child’s they hired a mental health counselor, but they don’t have a science teacher.

He didn't need to be removed, he needed in class support.

As in one dedicated teacher to distract the troubled kid so that the rest can do their reading?

Sorry, but with the limited resources schools have, that’s just not a sensible approach.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

That kid needs to be removed from the regular class and put in a separate one. We can’t sacrifice the learning of the 25 other students for some doubtful outcome of a troubled student.

Just to show how messed up the schools are at my child’s they hired a mental health counselor, but they don’t have a science teacher.

He didn't need to be removed, he needed in class support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

That kid needs to be removed from the regular class and put in a separate one. We can’t sacrifice the learning of the 25 other students for some doubtful outcome of a troubled student.

Just to show how messed up the schools are at my child’s they hired a mental health counselor, but they don’t have a science teacher.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whose idea it was to have integrated classrooms with no support.

I guess the support dwindled over time. Eons ago, I was an EA. (Called paras now?) I worked mainly with one child to manage behavior. I sat right beside him most of the day. I was able to head off any outbursts, and minimize distractions. If he was working well I could go around and help other kids with reading, or whatever they were working on.

Now, that child would be in the classroom with no support.. He would start kicking his feet.. Then drum on his desk. Then start singing. He needed someone to help him focus. Fortunately his physical outbursts were rare. But, that one kid could be quite a distraction and take up a lot of time all on his own.

Teachers need more support, period.

That’s what he would do? I have at least 6 in a class of 26 that do things like that non-stop and none are special needs students.

That was his starting point. It escalated from there. He was 5 1/2 with the maturity of a 3 year old. He was known to throw things, scream, and bite before they hired an EA for him. As I said, this was ages ago. Some might be surprised by the fact that those behaviors haven't always been tolerated. Some of the crap we see now would have had kids removed from the classroom. We were actually allowed to do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it very odd that special needs students get one on one time, extra attention etc, but nobody even dreams about giving that level of support to a child that is truly intellectually gifted.

They do and there specific placements for students such as the ones you describe.

I don’t know of any case of a gifted student having a teacher or a teacher aid spending the entire day one in one with him. It just shows how the priorities are set up in our public education system.

Yes, the priorities are set-up for students who need support so they can TRY to be successful. The gifted students can already successfully met the state standards. There are laws that gifted students receive differentiation, but it’s like 8 hours a month. That is met by Level II-IV services. The resources ARE being spent in the correct place.

No, the resources are not spend in the right place. As posted in the thread often resources are spend disproportionately on a student with deep behavioral issues at the expense of the rest of the class.
If you think the goal of educating a gifted student is meeting the state standards, you are terribly mistaken.

Federal law of what public schools are required to provide is FAPE- free and appropriate public education. This does not mean everyone gets the best education possible for them, it means having access to state standards. If you don't like it, private school is your better option.

As a parent, I don’t like it, because the taxes I pay don’t result in my child getting an appropriate education. From this thread it looks like a lot of teachers don’t like it either, to the point of being fed up and leaving the profession. Doubtful students like being in the classroom with chairs thrown around. At least you like it.