Anonymous wrote:Two things cause this painlessly and are common in other cultures:
Gua sha is the practice of using a tool to apply pressure and scrape the skin to relieve pain and tension. This action causes light bruising, which often appears as purple or red spots known as petechiae or sha. The name gua sha — pronounced gwahshah — comes from the Chinese word for scraping

and:
Cupping


You are fine, OP. CPS will do some research and let your daycare know. Daycare did the right thing too. Bruises are bruises and they are mandatory reporters.

To all who are judging about taking a kid in who has been fighting sniffles for weeks and/or cupping in general -- omg -- for real? Is amoxicillin or chiropractic care any less odd when you try to explain it?

This is coining, not cupping. OP already agreed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just to end the debate - the District of Columbia CPS manual says that the practice of coining is an abusive.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://cfsa.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/cfsa/publication/attachments/Investigations-POM_0.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiqvMv-76D0AhWcj3IEHbj6DKQQFnoECBYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3CoRuKQB7Io3qTKUY_L0TH

Again OP get a lawyer.

PP, you missed the paragraph before it said it was "unacceptable". Cultural considerations will be honored. Basically, this may mean counseling to the family that it's unacceptable in America. No one needs a lawyer. If worried, maybe a family lawyer pro bono.

A culturally sensitive CPS assessment recognizes that caregiver practices and family structures vary as the
result of ethnic, community, and familial differences. This range can result in different but safe and
adequate care for children within the parameters of the law. The CPS assessment process must
acknowledge, respect, and honor the diversity of families. Simultaneously, CPS is obliged to protect
children from cultural practices that fall under the definitions of abuse and neglect.

We need to be more aware of cultural differences. I go to acupuncture every week and my neurologist referred me to it. They do cupping. It helps. Without a reference on the age that it suddenly becomes culturally acceptable, the judgements get into a gray area.

The daycare did the right thing. Here's hoping CPS does too. They have their hands full with actual abuse in DC. The family will need to stop their practice of cupping/coining/whatever while the kids are little. If this is how you were taught to help your children feel better and you have it done to yourself too, where is the empathy here?

And how many of your children are boys and circumcised? Let's put this into perspective. Some things are culturally acceptable here which are brutal. Because you have never heard of cupping or value it, doesn't mean that it's not widely acceptable and not done in an abusive manner.

Wow, reading comprehension fail. For the folks in the back, here's the entire section. It is saying that there are considerations for a culturally sensitive assessment, BUT there are simultaneously practices that fall under the definitions of abuse and neglect. And coining is the FIRST example, followed by cupping and FGM. See the use of "medicinal" and "therapeutic"? CFSA knows why OP did it, but they consider it abuse and neglect anyways. This is the end of the conversation. OP needs to protect herself and her family by stopping this practice while she's living in the District and getting a lawyer BEFORE she says anything else to her doctor or CFSA.




CULTURAL AND LANGUAGE CONSIDERATIONS

With every CPS investigation and assessment, a person’s history and culture may affect certain areas. As a CPS social worker, it is important that you gain an understanding of each family’s culture. You must also recognize that a given culture cannot be defined simply as a static bundle of fixed traits. The following questions may be used as part of the assessment to guide your understanding of cultural differences:

 What roles do males and females play in the family?
 What is the role of religion for the family?
 How do the family’s beliefs influence child-rearing practices?
 What is the meaning, identity, and involvement of the larger homogeneous group (e.g., race and nationality)?
 What family rituals, traditions, and behaviors exist?
 What is the usual role of children in the family?
 What is the perception of the role of children in society?
 What types of discipline does the family consider to be appropriate?
 What are the family’s attitudes or beliefs regarding health care?
 What are the family’s sexual attitudes and values?
 Who is assigned authority and power of decision making?
 What tasks are assigned based on traditional roles in the family?
 What are the communication styles in the family?
 How does the family solve problems? Deal with conflicts?

A culturally sensitive CPS assessment recognizes that caregiver practices and family structures vary as the result of ethnic, community, and familial differences. This range can result in different but safe and adequate care for children within the parameters of the law. The CPS assessment process must acknowledge, respect, and honor the diversity of families. Simultaneously, CPS is obliged to protect children from cultural practices that fall under the definitions of abuse and neglect.

The following examples, which are not exhaustive of cultural practices, are considered unacceptable:

 Coining- a” medicinal” folk practice that involves the rubbing of heated oil on the skin, most commonly on the chest, back, or shoulders, and then vigorously rubbing a coin over the area in a linear fashion until a red mark is seen.
 Cupping (or cupping method) - a “therapeutic” method involving the application of suction by placing a vacuumized (usually by fire) cup or jar onto the affected or any part of the body surface.
 Female Circumcision (or female genital mutilation [FGM])-this practice comprises all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.

OP, get a lawyer. CPS is unpredictable. You are at the mercy of what a poorly-trained caseworker who may or may not understand your cultural practices decides. They could take all your children away. If they don't like how you handle it, you could be in for a long battle. I would not mess around with this or think I could handle it myself any more than I would assume I could handle it myself if I got arrested. You need someone who has worked in your county or DC on child abuse accusations before. This is serious. Do not wait until your kid is in foster care to take it seriously.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How inexperienced are they that they have never heard on mongolian spots!!

A cultural thing that good for health seems to imply it's something that was done to the child, not Mongolian spots that appear on an infant. Is cupping a cultural thing? This is very odd.

It seems like childcare did a good job in reporting.

Cupping is a cultural thing. So is coining. It's not abuse, and no they did not do a good job reporting if it is in fact that. TF.

Wrong.

Agree. While it may be “cultural” it is not a helpful science based practice. If you are bruising your kid, you are wrong. Abuse of children and women is acceptable in many cultures worldwide. That excuse isn’t going to fly in the US

Everyone is hung up on the bruises. Bruises happen for reasons other than abuse. I can bruise my child but it's not abuse. Not all bruising hurts a child. Why the hang up over the actual bruise.
You can physically abuse a child without leaving a bruise too. Odd bruises need to be reported because of the possibility that the act which caused them is abuse. They aren't being reported because of the bruise alone.

I think the daycare was right, but this notion that all bruises are wrong and this OP needs to be dragged into court is wrong.

Because the kid has bruises all over. No one would make a report about one innocuous bruise. You don’t get bruises all over a large area from your run of the mill normal everyday tasks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How inexperienced are they that they have never heard on mongolian spots!!

A cultural thing that good for health seems to imply it's something that was done to the child, not Mongolian spots that appear on an infant. Is cupping a cultural thing? This is very odd.

It seems like childcare did a good job in reporting.

Cupping is a cultural thing. So is coining. It's not abuse, and no they did not do a good job reporting if it is in fact that. TF.

Wrong.

Agree. While it may be “cultural” it is not a helpful science based practice. If you are bruising your kid, you are wrong. Abuse of children and women is acceptable in many cultures worldwide. That excuse isn’t going to fly in the US

Everyone is hung up on the bruises. Bruises happen for reasons other than abuse. I can bruise my child but it's not abuse. Not all bruising hurts a child. Why the hang up over the actual bruise.
You can physically abuse a child without leaving a bruise too. Odd bruises need to be reported because of the possibility that the act which caused them is abuse. They aren't being reported because of the bruise alone.

I think the daycare was right, but this notion that all bruises are wrong and this OP needs to be dragged into court is wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How inexperienced are they that they have never heard on mongolian spots!!

A cultural thing that good for health seems to imply it's something that was done to the child, not Mongolian spots that appear on an infant. Is cupping a cultural thing? This is very odd.

It seems like childcare did a good job in reporting.

Cupping is a cultural thing. So is coining. It's not abuse, and no they did not do a good job reporting if it is in fact that. TF.

Wrong.

Agree. While it may be “cultural” it is not a helpful science based practice. If you are bruising your kid, you are wrong. Abuse of children and women is acceptable in many cultures worldwide. That excuse isn’t going to fly in the US

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just show them the cups. And maybe a picture of Michael Phelps and Gwenyth Paltrow with their cup marks. I'm a big fan of the cups for muscle pain.

Are you a big fan of cups for a kid young enough to be in daycare?

It’s a normal practice in many cultures.

So are a lot of stupid things that are harmful children.

Anonymous wrote:Just to end the debate - the District of Columbia CPS manual says that the practice of coining is an abusive.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://cfsa.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/cfsa/publication/attachments/Investigations-POM_0.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiqvMv-76D0AhWcj3IEHbj6DKQQFnoECBYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3CoRuKQB7Io3qTKUY_L0TH

Again OP get a lawyer.

PP, you missed the paragraph before it said it was "unacceptable". Cultural considerations will be honored. Basically, this may mean counseling to the family that it's unacceptable in America. No one needs a lawyer. If worried, maybe a family lawyer pro bono.

A culturally sensitive CPS assessment recognizes that caregiver practices and family structures vary as the
result of ethnic, community, and familial differences. This range can result in different but safe and
adequate care for children within the parameters of the law. The CPS assessment process must
acknowledge, respect, and honor the diversity of families. Simultaneously, CPS is obliged to protect
children from cultural practices that fall under the definitions of abuse and neglect.

We need to be more aware of cultural differences. I go to acupuncture every week and my neurologist referred me to it. They do cupping. It helps. Without a reference on the age that it suddenly becomes culturally acceptable, the judgements get into a gray area.

The daycare did the right thing. Here's hoping CPS does too. They have their hands full with actual abuse in DC. The family will need to stop their practice of cupping/coining/whatever while the kids are little. If this is how you were taught to help your children feel better and you have it done to yourself too, where is the empathy here?

And how many of your children are boys and circumcised? Let's put this into perspective. Some things are culturally acceptable here which are brutal. Because you have never heard of cupping or value it, doesn't mean that it's not widely acceptable and not done in an abusive manner.

As a reference, they will decide this on a case-by-case basis and cultural meaning will be considered:
https://champprogram.com/question/22a.shtml

Two things cause this painlessly and are common in other cultures:
Gua sha is the practice of using a tool to apply pressure and scrape the skin to relieve pain and tension. This action causes light bruising, which often appears as purple or red spots known as petechiae or sha. The name gua sha — pronounced gwahshah — comes from the Chinese word for scraping

and:
Cupping


You are fine, OP. CPS will do some research and let your daycare know. Daycare did the right thing too. Bruises are bruises and they are mandatory reporters.

To all who are judging about taking a kid in who has been fighting sniffles for weeks and/or cupping in general -- omg -- for real? Is amoxicillin or chiropractic care any less odd when you try to explain it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How inexperienced are they that they have never heard on mongolian spots!!

A cultural thing that good for health seems to imply it's something that was done to the child, not Mongolian spots that appear on an infant. Is cupping a cultural thing? This is very odd.

It seems like childcare did a good job in reporting.

Cupping is a cultural thing. So is coining. It's not abuse, and no they did not do a good job reporting if it is in fact that. TF.

Wrong.

Regardless of anyone's opinion, cupping, coining, and FGM are specifically identified as "unacceptable" cultural practices in the CFSA handbook. (Thanks PP for finding that.) Take it up with CFSA, but don't take it up with the mandated reporter who was fulfilling their obligation.

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. I have never got reported elsewhere, and this is my first time ever. I am not from here (excuse my writing), and I have 3 beautiful children, and my oldest is 10, and this is my youngest. The treatment is similar to cupping (but not exactly like that), and it is used in my home county and some foreigners pay for this here. They are bruise like, but they will be gone in days and painless. My child has been feeling a bit under weather for weeks, but he is not really sick. So, I decided to do that on him to make him feel better.

DH tells me that I will be fine because CPS can google up the treatment (I did not pay for treatment and I did that myself ) if they want. I have done that to my family members (DH and my parents) and my other children before for years, so I know what I am doing and I am not hurting my child.

What is under the weather but not sick? I know this is off topic, but please don't send your "under the weather" kid to daycare.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I was investigated for “slapping”. It was a very light slap on the back of the head.
My kid made drama out of it and it was reported. He behaved like a brat which warranted the slap. I should have been more patient but he is bratty, very bratty. So it’s hard.
They investigated and said inconclusive.
Most likely they will say the same about you. They will want to talk to the child alone.
I think some reporters report every little thing and that’s unfortunate

No it didn't. No amount of brattiness "warrants" a slap. At age 46 I still need follow up treatment (dental) from a slap I "deserved" at age 13.

I didn’t read the entire thread but did OP mention how old the child is and if they are verbal? Maybe the child said something to the daycare staff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is op. I did not know what that calls in English, and I google up, and yes, I did "coining". I was worried and left a message for the regular pediatrician to tell her what has happened and what I did. My kid does not take any herbal medicine and broths that I boiled for hours. I have not got any call from CPS, and I have learned my lesson. But you know what, coining does help to improve better health.

OP your pediatrician is a mandated reporter too. If the pediatrician disagrees with your cultural practices you will now have multiple people reporting you. You really need a lawyer. You can lose your kids this way.

OP is almost certainly not going to lose her kids over this one incident. CPS is loathe to remove kids from custody, well beyond the point when they should.

That said, OP, please don’t do this again. You can’t deliberately and repeatedly bruise your kids in this country, regardless of your personal cultural beliefs.

Absolutely she can. CPS can determine that because she insists on performing this abusive act and doesn't see it as abusive, they can make the determination to remove the children. The OP is now calling more mandated reporters to likely get her reported again. CPS has a ton of power. Anyone that deals with CPS knows that you take them 100% seriously.

Having been a CPS worker, I had one family who engaged in coining but those kids were not in care because of the coining but because of mental health and substance abuse as well as severe neglect. The mom wasn't able to care for the kids. These kind of things get called in regularly. They are no abusive in and of itself. Stop being dramatic. It was appropriate for the day care to call but more than likely, worst case CPS will come in, talk to her, do a safety plan and help her understand why not to do it (but she can tell the worker she didn't know and has since spoken to others who explained its not an ok practice here) and then do a follow up visit or two. It would be very unlikely that CPS would provide ongoing services and even less likely to remove a child over this.

OP made a mistake. It is a well known cultural practice in some parts of Asia. Stop scaring them when its probably just ruled out. If CPS was going to remove or really concerned they would have come same day/next day. We live in a very diverse area.

At no time has the OP stated that it was a mistake. The OP is insisting that it is a part of her culture. If she continues down this path how would you handle it in CPS? Allow the child to continue to be bruised?

It is part of her culture.

Female genital cutting is also a part of some cultures. I guess CPS should allow that as well?

Stick to the topic. Its not done here and that would be CPS involvement.

Coining or cupping or whatever is not a mainstream American practice either.

Cupping very much is as is acupuncture. I’ve had cupping done many times years ago.