Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s not just the flaws in our healthcare system that are being laid bare. FFS, the only reason we aren’t all already in quarantine is because our entire economy is built upon people being out there, spending more money that they take in. So few people have saving to get them through a financial/health crisis. So many food insecure families that schools don’t want to close because so many kids will go hungry. Low wage workers, especially the service industry, have no paid time off or sick leave. They’re going to lose their jobs anyway, as the economy crashed and burns as those with money and the privilege of telework start isolating and stop going to restaurants and using Uber, etc. It’s all a house of cards. The already poor and the already sick are completely f***ed.

By contrast, in China people have huge amounts of money saved up because they cannot spend it. They can afford to be quarantined but other than that, they are not better off. A nation of savers is not better than a nation of spenders.

Flaws in healthcare system, maybe. Flaws in our fundamental economy, not exactly. We should save more, yes, but not a lot more. We should have more capacity in our health care system, but not a lot more.

BS. There’s nothing else to call it when the vast majority of Americans can’t afford to miss one single paycheck. When do many can’t afford to buy groceries, or medicine, don’t have healthcare or paid leave., could lose their housing if one paycheck is delayed. This system is only working for a small subset of Americans. Luckily, I’m one of them. But I’m not so deluded to think it’s not sheer luck that this is the case. And that this isn’t the main reason we aren’t taking the measures that would keep us safe.

As unpopular as this will sound, those that are better off during a pandemic or other emergency will do better. It just is what it is. There is no way we can do everything for everyone.

Cuomo's idea of staggering work hours so that there are not as many people in the office at a time is one good idea that will keep those in need working, but will also help to slow the pandemic.

As for losing their housing during a pandemic or directly after? The key to that is social shame of those that are so hard-hearted that they would do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s not just the flaws in our healthcare system that are being laid bare. FFS, the only reason we aren’t all already in quarantine is because our entire economy is built upon people being out there, spending more money that they take in. So few people have saving to get them through a financial/health crisis. So many food insecure families that schools don’t want to close because so many kids will go hungry. Low wage workers, especially the service industry, have no paid time off or sick leave. They’re going to lose their jobs anyway, as the economy crashed and burns as those with money and the privilege of telework start isolating and stop going to restaurants and using Uber, etc. It’s all a house of cards. The already poor and the already sick are completely f***ed.

By contrast, in China people have huge amounts of money saved up because they cannot spend it. They can afford to be quarantined but other than that, they are not better off. A nation of savers is not better than a nation of spenders.

Flaws in healthcare system, maybe. Flaws in our fundamental economy, not exactly. We should save more, yes, but not a lot more. We should have more capacity in our health care system, but not a lot more.

BS. There’s nothing else to call it when the vast majority of Americans can’t afford to miss one single paycheck. When do many can’t afford to buy groceries, or medicine, don’t have healthcare or paid leave., could lose their housing if one paycheck is delayed. This system is only working for a small subset of Americans. Luckily, I’m one of them. But I’m not so deluded to think it’s not sheer luck that this is the case. And that this isn’t the main reason we aren’t taking the measures that would keep us safe.

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. I am one of those people who is really getting annoyed with the Coronavirus media hype. Parents in my neighborhood actually think their healthy kids are at risk of dying with the Coronavirus! There is a much greater change that your child will get sick or die with Influenza than Coronavirus COVID-19.

https://www.wbtv.com/2020/03/06/flu-kills-k-americans-children-hardest-hit/
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/#S3

Please don't just rely on misguided edited statistics being published by the media. You also need to review other sources including cdc.gov and who.int. You should also review the history of other flu and zoonotic outbreaks for comparison, then maybe you can put your mind at ease that your kiddos are not at high risk!

In my opinion, the 2009 H1N1 swine flu was much more serious than COVID-19, and the US never made significant attempts to contain the outbreak before it spread globally.
2009 H1N1:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

"WHO estimates that seasonal influenza may result in 290,000-650,000 deaths each year due to respiratory diseases alone.”
https://www.who.int/influenza/surveillance_monitoring/bod/en/

Influenza (US stats): https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

Coronavirus COVID-19: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Also, keep in mind that the mortality statistics calculated against reported illnesses could be skewed since many sick people ride it out and don’t go to the doctor or they are simply harboring the virus with no symptoms. I would prefer my kids build antibodies to this COVID-19 strain so their immune system will be prepared for potential future subtypes. That is why older people were not impacted by the 2009 H1N1 outbreak!

How fortunate! They probably will!

Ugh. I am one of those people who is really getting annoyed with the Coronavirus media hype. Parents in my neighborhood actually think their healthy kids are at risk of dying with the Coronavirus! There is a much greater change that your child will get sick or die with Influenza than Coronavirus COVID-19.

https://www.wbtv.com/2020/03/06/flu-kills-k-americans-children-hardest-hit/
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/#S3

Please don't just rely on misguided edited statistics being published by the media. You also need to review other sources including cdc.gov and who.int. You should also review the history of other flu and zoonotic outbreaks for comparison, then maybe you can put your mind at ease that your kiddos are not at high risk!

In my opinion, the 2009 H1N1 swine flu was much more serious than COVID-19, and the US never made significant attempts to contain the outbreak before it spread globally.
2009 H1N1:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

"WHO estimates that seasonal influenza may result in 290,000-650,000 deaths each year due to respiratory diseases alone.”
https://www.who.int/influenza/surveillance_monitoring/bod/en/

Influenza (US stats): https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

Coronavirus COVID-19: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Also, keep in mind that the mortality statistics calculated against reported illnesses could be skewed since many sick people ride it out and don’t go to the doctor or they are simply harboring the virus with no symptoms. I would prefer my kids build antibodies to this COVID-19 strain so their immune system will be prepared for potential future subtypes. That is why older people were not impacted by the 2009 H1N1 outbreak!

Anonymous wrote:
It’s not just the flaws in our healthcare system that are being laid bare. FFS, the only reason we aren’t all already in quarantine is because our entire economy is built upon people being out there, spending more money that they take in. So few people have saving to get them through a financial/health crisis. So many food insecure families that schools don’t want to close because so many kids will go hungry. Low wage workers, especially the service industry, have no paid time off or sick leave. They’re going to lose their jobs anyway, as the economy crashed and burns as those with money and the privilege of telework start isolating and stop going to restaurants and using Uber, etc. It’s all a house of cards. The already poor and the already sick are completely f***ed.

By contrast, in China people have huge amounts of money saved up because they cannot spend it. They can afford to be quarantined but other than that, they are not better off. A nation of savers is not better than a nation of spenders.

Flaws in healthcare system, maybe. Flaws in our fundamental economy, not exactly. We should save more, yes, but not a lot more. We should have more capacity in our health care system, but not a lot more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

3)Tons of patients with moderate resp failure, that overtime deteriorate to saturate ICUs first, then NIVs, then CPAP hoods, then even O2.

I don't understand that above. What are NIVs? What does it mean to saturate ICUs? Does it mean to run out of?

I think the problem is a numbers problem? Too many cases all at once that are severe?

Non Invasive Ventilation.

He is basically saying that they are running out of ICU space (saturated) and running out of backup options like cpap and oxygen.

Yes, it’s a numbers issue. Too many sick at the same time.

It does beg the question: What is up with Italy that didn't happen in Korea?

Part of the issue with this is that the pneumonia lasts a very long time. It isn't a quick couple days in the ICU and then to the intermediate unit.

System overwhelmed in Italy. Treatments are unavailable due to lack of facilities, equipment or personnel.

Korean hospitals are also close to being overwhelmed. There was a story days ago about someone who went to the hospital with a non-covid emergency, was turned away, went home and died.

How sad. Last year I went to an ER on a particularly busy night (a good hospital in a suburban area). For some reason all the ERs in the area were particularly busy that evening. I had to wait 12 hours before a bed opened up and I could get seen. ERs are generally busy already.

My husband waited three days last year for a cardiac ICU bed to open at Washington Hospital Center. Someone had to die for him to get it. By the time it opened, they need to take him there in a helicopter to save his life. Once there, he had the best care. But the wait nearly killed him, and that was just a normal time for hospitals. I can only imagine what would happen in this area if there was a rush on ICU beds. We drive by all these sophisticated and modern hospital complexes, but in our experience, there just isn't a lot of ICU space - from little hospitals like Sibley and Suburban, to mega hospital centers like Washington Hospital Center.

Another thing I remember. There are nurses on duty, day and night in shifts. They are assigned several ICU patients, and I could not believe the amount of information they had to absorb every eight hours. They are heroes, and overworked already. I have to say that sometimes to overworked. Some of them got really important things wrong, and we needed to be there as advocates to fill them in at the beginning of each shift.

I would be terrified to be at a hospital without at least one family member allowed in to advocate for me. How would that work with CV?

This crisis is really exposing a lot of flaws in our health system. Hospitals in this country operate very close to the margins and avoid excess capacity, is just-in-time supply chains, and there’s no excess capacity in the system for an event like this one.

It’s not just the flaws in our healthcare system that are being laid bare. FFS, the only reason we aren’t all already in quarantine is because our entire economy is built upon people being out there, spending more money that they take in. So few people have saving to get them through a financial/health crisis. So many food insecure families that schools don’t want to close because so many kids will go hungry. Low wage workers, especially the service industry, have no paid time off or sick leave. They’re going to lose their jobs anyway, as the economy crashed and burns as those with money and the privilege of telework start isolating and stop going to restaurants and using Uber, etc. It’s all a house of cards. The already poor and the already sick are completely f***ed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine where we would be if people said "Wow, there's a nasty deadly virus overtaking China and starting to spread. I think taking my cruise is not wise" Add to that the number of schools that took their kids to Italy DESPITE the outbreak. They brought it back as well.

My husband went straight to the top to push for work at home. Said to me "I might get fired for insubordination" I said "so be it, I'm behind you". Well, turns out the top is on the same page and they are expecting an announcement, possibly today.

Be my husband. Be bold and decisive. Take matters into your own hands. Do what's right.

Yep. I asked for five days of telework today (approved) and told them they should do the same for all staff. They are considering this today. Also keeping my kids out of school, but they are old enough to take care of themselves.

I did the same, was met with support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Daily podcast has a very good episode today about how and why the US is woefully behind on taking care of our population during this Pandemic. Have a listen to gain some facts.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?i=1000468085929

Can you summarize any points for those of us that can’t listen at work?

Sure...

In 2018 during the 100th anniversary of the Spanish Flu, gatherings were held of high levels in Atlanta to discuss what has been learned about pandemics since. One of the officials at this group warns of the #1 health security concern in our world today: the threat of pandemic flu. She fears that our country is nowhere near prepared to deal with it should it arise. Days later a top Trump official shut down the global health security unit that this woman at the Atlanta conference worked for.

Jan 3, 2020, the head of Health and Human Services gets word that the novel Coronavirus has been found and it spreading in China. He takes is very serious and says this is bad. Trump agrees to stop flights from China to buy us some time to prep our nation, but many flights are still coming in from other countries where Coronavirus has also been detected.

Our government wasn’t prepared to use that time because of testing. Chinese made sequence of virus available and WHO developed a test. CDC didn’t want to use theirs and wanted to create their own. Didn’t do that until beginning of Feb. and sent them to public health labs around country. Labs had to check test first and immediately realized the tests were not accurate and didn’t work. CDC tells all labs around country to send a tests to Atlanta, taking more time.

Meanwhile, nobody is getting tested and weeks are going by with people spreading it in the community. Airports aren’t screening US entry except for Chinese citizens, but it’s spreading heavily in other countries.

A doctor, Dr Chu, and researcher in Washington see a solution come out of her own research and create an effective Coronavirus test very quickly that is able to test thousands immediately. They can’t use it without FDA and CDC approval. They ask for approval during the first week of Feb. Bureaucratic red tape gets in way. Weeks go by and the CDC and FDA don’t reply. It’s now the last week of Feb. They’re sitting on many positive Coronavirus tests and begin to question their ethical responsibility. They go against the rules and inform their local public health dept. in Washington. Public Health goes out and notifies the positive cases, but Dr Chu realizes that these cases were from many many weeks ago...a lot of spreading.

Anonymous wrote:Imagine where we would be if people said "Wow, there's a nasty deadly virus overtaking China and starting to spread. I think taking my cruise is not wise" Add to that the number of schools that took their kids to Italy DESPITE the outbreak. They brought it back as well.

My husband went straight to the top to push for work at home. Said to me "I might get fired for insubordination" I said "so be it, I'm behind you". Well, turns out the top is on the same page and they are expecting an announcement, possibly today.

Be my husband. Be bold and decisive. Take matters into your own hands. Do what's right.

Yep. I asked for five days of telework today (approved) and told them they should do the same for all staff. They are considering this today. Also keeping my kids out of school, but they are old enough to take care of themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are now seeing why it's bad to let a repressive communist country hold the keys to our health, i.e. medicines, etc. We are also seeing the risks of Chinese way of life. Before we didn't care because the nasty diseases only affected them - easy to go on with our lives and pretend it does not exist. Scream racism when anyone says "hmmmm, that's not good practice...".

For those who love a global economy, understand that gives rogue nations like China (and yes, they are rogue) the ability to grab us by the gonads and twist in situations like this.

Just like the repressive US administration refused to allow early testing and take steps to save American lives.

China did the right thing and slowed the spread of this virus, buying the world some time. Too bad the US wasted it.

Yes. two sides of the same bad coin.

Coronavirus: why we must act now

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

Question for the crowd: We have friends (1 adult, one teen) who are supposed to be coming from California to stay with us while they participate in a national-level sports tournament in the area this weekend. Should we be telling them to stay in a hotel? Or is that just overkill?

Anonymous wrote:DD wore a mask to school and they made her take it off.

They didn't want it to "scare" any of the other kids. Ask them how they plan to protect her, since they overruled her parents.

Facemasks.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/05/811387424/face-masks-not-enough-are-made-in-america-to-deal-with-coronavirus

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm getting mixed messages about regular facemasks. The govt has been saying regular masks won't help the general public but now they say it's ok for healthcare workers to treat covid19 patients with regular masks

The messaging on face masks has been rather poorly delivered.

Basically:

1) If you are dealing with a positive or suspected coronavirus patient in a close setting (i.e. within 6 feet) you should wear a mask. This is primarily for medical professionals and caregivers.
2) If you are sick, you should wear a mask to prevent infecting others.
3) If you are healthy and just walking down the street or to the store or the school, you do not need a mask.

The problem is compounded by the fact we have a significant mask shortage worldwide.

In Asia, everyone wears a mask but it is a cultural norm. Sick people wear masks all the time and seeing someone in a mask is an everyday event. Masks are a bit more plentiful than they are in the USA as there is a regular supply chain for production and distribution. In an outbreak, people wear masks to prevent themselves from spreading the disease and it also builds "community unity" that helps remind people to keep distance, wash hands, practice good hygiene, etc.

More on Asian countries mask culture here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/13/opinion/coronavirus-face-mask-effective.html

Wearing a mask helps if you are sick. People can be sick and contagious for a week or two prior to feeling ill. This, everyone wearing masks is beneficial. This wouldn’t be the case if people were only contagious when they felt ill.

Also, IF South Korea's handling of the crisis turns out to be better than Western countries' handling (hard to say until the list settles, but it is possible), remember they are mask wearers.