Anonymous
Post 06/05/2015 09:15     Subject: Re:Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:The first time I saw the Duggars, I was more interested in knowing how they managed to run the household with so many kids. That was the extent of my interest. I found the mom and dad very weird.

Having said that, I feel that the reports got released mainly because the family started to become associated with Republican campaigning.Once you dip your toes in the campaign of presidential candidates, this kind of shit will come out. Oprah was not able to dig this up when it was hinted to her.

Who would do such a thing? Some jealous member of their church, the democrats, the republicans...the list is endless.


Oprah's show is the reason the police report exists in the first place. They were set to appear on her show in 2006 but were tipped off by someone to the abuse, which prompted them not to air anything. The people involved then reported it to an abuse hotline which is how the police became involved. The report was legally requested and because Josh was 18 at the time the report was taken (re,member the abuse happened three years prior), it was not sealed and names of minors are redacted. It was released by the tabloid media because the Duggars make a living out of brandishing their brand of family values and demonizing gays/transgenders as child predators.

Anonymous wrote:What Josh did was not something unnatural. In a normal household, he would have been making out with classmates behind the lockers or bleachers. Also, while his behavior was inappropriate, it was in no way that of a rapist. He himself was a hormonal teen.


If Josh had groped your 5 year old daughter under her clothes you would be singing a different tune. A 15 year old teenager does not fondle 5 year olds, he also does not go to his sister's room and touch them while they sleep.

Anonymous wrote:
I feel no moral outrage for the groping.


I can't even...
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2015 08:12     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I read an article in which Jessa, one of his sisters who was a victim, basically defended Josh and told the media to leave him alone and she had forgiven him.

Now, I'm a conservative Christian and I understand forgiveness. (Not as conservative as the Duggar fam, but still on the conservative side.) However, I think the parents have a poor understanding of forgiveness in this situation. It's ok to still have your guard up after you've forgiven someone. You forgiving a person does not mean they won't hurt you again. This girl is brainwashed. If my son did that to his sister or any other child, I would separate them immediately and figure out something. I would NOT force them to be friends and pretend to be one big happy family.


I think it's paternalistic of you to decide how the girls should feel. If the incidents happened when they were young (5?) and were isolated incidents (there were a handful? It wasn't a routine thing.) it's entirely possible that they didn't really grasp what had happened. As such, it's not far fetched for the girls to forgive him. They might think he's a creepy weirdo, but that doesn't mean they *must* hate him. But you seem to think that you know better and feel compelled to dictate how the girls should feel. Newsflash: holding onto anger isn't healthy. Forgiveness is always the best approach. There was a video online last night of a man hugging and forgiving the young woman who killed his cyclist wife because she was texting while driving. I suppose you think that man was brainwashed too?

I think people see the grown ass man instead of the kid who committed these acts, and that's confusing their emotions and promoting additional outrage.



For one thing, these parents really are a pair of liars who have shared about seven different versions of this story and failed to adequately address child sex abuse and I don't buy that the abuse was as isolated or limited as they are claiming. For another thing, the girls are not stupid. You think when your brother comes into your room at night (or later, after his untreated behavior had escalated, and he went after his five year old sister while he was reading her a story) and touches your breasts and genitals - and that's the absolute best, least horrifying version of the story - you think after you've been told that all sexual touching outside of marriage is a sin, and you, as a female, are responsible for it, that they don't understand it? The contortions some of you are willing to bend yourselves through to minimize child sex assault doesn't speak well of you.

And an adult forgiving someone for a grave transgression, like the parent who lost their cyclist? That's an adult who wasn't blamed for his own victimization.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2015 06:33     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:I read an article in which Jessa, one of his sisters who was a victim, basically defended Josh and told the media to leave him alone and she had forgiven him.

Now, I'm a conservative Christian and I understand forgiveness. (Not as conservative as the Duggar fam, but still on the conservative side.) However, I think the parents have a poor understanding of forgiveness in this situation. It's ok to still have your guard up after you've forgiven someone. You forgiving a person does not mean they won't hurt you again. This girl is brainwashed. If my son did that to his sister or any other child, I would separate them immediately and figure out something. I would NOT force them to be friends and pretend to be one big happy family.


I think it's paternalistic of you to decide how the girls should feel. If the incidents happened when they were young (5?) and were isolated incidents (there were a handful? It wasn't a routine thing.) it's entirely possible that they didn't really grasp what had happened. As such, it's not far fetched for the girls to forgive him. They might think he's a creepy weirdo, but that doesn't mean they *must* hate him. But you seem to think that you know better and feel compelled to dictate how the girls should feel. Newsflash: holding onto anger isn't healthy. Forgiveness is always the best approach. There was a video online last night of a man hugging and forgiving the young woman who killed his cyclist wife because she was texting while driving. I suppose you think that man was brainwashed too?

I think people see the grown ass man instead of the kid who committed these acts, and that's confusing their emotions and promoting additional outrage.

Anonymous
Post 06/05/2015 03:15     Subject: Re:Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
The first time I saw the Duggars, I was more interested in knowing how they managed to run the household with so many kids. That was the extent of my interest. I found the mom and dad very weird.

Having said that, I feel that the reports got released mainly because the family started to become associated with Republican campaigning.Once you dip your toes in the campaign of presidential candidates, this kind of shit will come out. Oprah was not able to dig this up when it was hinted to her.

Who would do such a thing? Some jealous member of their church, the democrats, the republicans...the list is endless.

What Josh did was not something unnatural. In a normal household, he would have been making out with classmates behind the lockers or bleachers. Also, while his behavior was inappropriate, it was in no way that of a rapist. He himself was a hormonal teen.

I think the reaction of the public has happened because they took these people as some paragon of long forgotten purity and virtue. We feel stupid for not realizing that that this was just a way to make huge amounts of money for these people. They were living in a small house with two bathrooms. They did whatever was needed to bring their brood of kids who had no career prospects some measure of financial prosperity.

I feel no moral outrage for the groping. I only find this whole "Rise and Fall of Duggars" an interesting example of how reality TV works.
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 23:55     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
It's possible that the second incident report that In Touch requested was improperly sent to them. It's unclear whether that report should have been expunged.

http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/03/second-incident-report-released-regarding-josh-duggar-sexual-molestation-allegations/

There are questions about the propriety of the judge expunging the record, as long as we're discussing ambiguous areas of law.
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 23:48     Subject: Re:Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
“On 5/20/15, in full compliance with Arkansas Law, the Springdale Police Department responded to a records request under the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act. The requested record was not sealed or expunged, and at the time the report was filed, the person listed in the report was an adult. Any names of minors included in the report, as well as pronouns, were redacted from the report by the Springdale Police Department in compliance with Arkansas law prior to release.”

http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/04/city-of-springda...exual-molestation-accusations/


Not sealed? I think I better read the link.


From my post earlier today:

Ironically, if they had done everything the right way, that police report would have become part of a court case involving a juvenile and therefore sealed, just like the results of the CPS investigation were sealed. Police reports by themselves are eligible to be released with the proper redaction of the names of juveniles, as we done in this case.


Oops, that should be WAS done in this case.
And I'm not the PP who posted that link, but it's not working for me so try this one:
http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/04/city-of-springdale-responds-to-josh-duggar-sexual-molestation-accusations/
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 23:46     Subject: Re:Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:
“On 5/20/15, in full compliance with Arkansas Law, the Springdale Police Department responded to a records request under the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act. The requested record was not sealed or expunged, and at the time the report was filed, the person listed in the report was an adult. Any names of minors included in the report, as well as pronouns, were redacted from the report by the Springdale Police Department in compliance with Arkansas law prior to release.”

http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/04/city-of-springda...exual-molestation-accusations/


Not sealed? I think I better read the link.


From my post earlier today:

Ironically, if they had done everything the right way, that police report would have become part of a court case involving a juvenile and therefore sealed, just like the results of the CPS investigation were sealed. Police reports by themselves are eligible to be released with the proper redaction of the names of juveniles, as we done in this case.
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 23:42     Subject: Re:Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
“On 5/20/15, in full compliance with Arkansas Law, the Springdale Police Department responded to a records request under the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act. The requested record was not sealed or expunged, and at the time the report was filed, the person listed in the report was an adult. Any names of minors included in the report, as well as pronouns, were redacted from the report by the Springdale Police Department in compliance with Arkansas law prior to release.”

http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/04/city-of-springda...exual-molestation-accusations/



Not sealed? I think I better read the link.
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 23:35     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I haven't been following this and I'm not sure if I have all the facts straight, but here's my take:

No parent would call the police and pursue criminal charges against their tween...especially in a situation that involved groping and not rape. Anyone who says they would turn their kid in over this sort of thing is lying. If you were in their shoes, you would intervene, take precautions, and get everyone into therapy/treatment.

And I do feel bad for the girls. This info should not have been made public. Period. No victim should have their story made public without their consent. The media circus is shameful.

I can't stand the Duggars or what they stand for, but I don't think this information should have been made public. It simply isn't fair to those girls to publicize what was handled years ago. Regardless of how it might have been handled better or differently, it's not anyone else's call on sharing such private information about the victims. It's their story.


I agree with you wholehearted pp. I also don't like the Duggars and despise their way of thinking, lifestyle and religion. I will go one step further and say that I think his behavior, given his age at the time and their insulated/repressed life in cramped quarters (at the time), was pretty normal. I'm not saying it should be accepted and condoned, but it was still normal. The patents should have acted better to prevent this by keepings boys/girls separated, be more vigilant and after it happened, therapy for all involved. I would never had called the police for this on my teenager. But then, I also don't have 14 kids in a 3bdr house, homeschool them and keep them in a bubble....
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 23:27     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
I read an article in which Jessa, one of his sisters who was a victim, basically defended Josh and told the media to leave him alone and she had forgiven him.

Now, I'm a conservative Christian and I understand forgiveness. (Not as conservative as the Duggar fam, but still on the conservative side.) However, I think the parents have a poor understanding of forgiveness in this situation. It's ok to still have your guard up after you've forgiven someone. You forgiving a person does not mean they won't hurt you again. This girl is brainwashed. If my son did that to his sister or any other child, I would separate them immediately and figure out something. I would NOT force them to be friends and pretend to be one big happy family.
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 23:10     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:We have a juvenile justice system for a reason...primarily because science and medical research tell us that the adolescent brain isn't fully developed until early adulthood and impulse control is lacking. Google it. Most boys have access to the internet and porn at an early age...and that satisfies curiosity. The Duggar kid would not have groped his sisters had he owned an iPad and lived in a normal family. Had this case ever gone to court (which is a real stretch given the victims were family and the alleged acts primarily were limited to over clothing groping), even a newbie defense lawyer would have gotten him off given his age, the offenses and his circumstances.

I think if you actually knew some of the stupid shit your husband, brother or son did as a tween you'd be less shocked. Anyone know cousins who played doctor? Anyone play doctor themselves? Anyone recall playground bullying where a kids pants were pulled down or a bra was snapped?

Think about all the keg parties you went to in high school and crazy shit guys tried. Back in the day we referred to the guys at one local catholic school as date rapists because they were so crude and aggressive (no actual rapes that I know of, but I vividly remember being pinned against a wall --- and that guy is a decent adult...he just acted like a stupid shit one time).

If the Duggar kid is a serial predator, then the acts would have increased in intensity and would not have stopped. Big difference between a sexual predator and a stupid, impulsive kid.


He wasn't playing doctor or snapping bras. Fondling girls when they're asleep is creep behavior. When they're your sisters, it may be frustrated sexual urges. When they're your 5 year old sister, that's child molestation.
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 23:07     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jim Bob said there has been an unprecedented attack on his family -- um, what about his son preying on his sisters


Michelle says that her daughters are much more victimized by the media attention than by their brother.



And I agree with michelle. Her family is being attacked,nand not out of comcern and compassion, out of pure hatred. You all are so sick, and you don't even realize it.


NP here. I agree with you both.
I also cannot understand how people can be so outraged about this, yet no outrage that this police report was released (and I believe it was ILLEGALLY released) and there was little effort to keep the identities of the victims from being public.


Why do you think the report was illegally released?


Evidently, a judge today (Stacy Zimmerman) ruled with the Duggars about the release of the police report.


Link?


I think she ordered the records destroyed but what's the point now? It's been circulated and Josh admitted to it.
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 23:06     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jim Bob said there has been an unprecedented attack on his family -- um, what about his son preying on his sisters


Michelle says that her daughters are much more victimized by the media attention than by their brother.



And I agree with michelle. Her family is being attacked,nand not out of comcern and compassion, out of pure hatred. You all are so sick, and you don't even realize it.


NP here. I agree with you both.
I also cannot understand how people can be so outraged about this, yet no outrage that this police report was released (and I believe it was ILLEGALLY released) and there was little effort to keep the identities of the victims from being public.


Why do you think the report was illegally released?


Evidently, a judge today (Stacy Zimmerman) ruled with the Duggars about the release of the police report.


Link?


I wonder if PP is referring to Judge Stacy Zimmerman expunging the record. Today, Springdale responded:

“On 5/20/15, in full compliance with Arkansas Law, the Springdale Police Department responded to a records request under the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act. The requested record was not sealed or expunged, and at the time the report was filed, the person listed in the report was an adult. Any names of minors included in the report, as well as pronouns, were redacted from the report by the Springdale Police Department in compliance with Arkansas law prior to release.”

http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/04/city-of-springdale-responds-to-josh-duggar-sexual-molestation-accusations/
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 22:52     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jim Bob said there has been an unprecedented attack on his family -- um, what about his son preying on his sisters


Michelle says that her daughters are much more victimized by the media attention than by their brother.



And I agree with michelle. Her family is being attacked,nand not out of comcern and compassion, out of pure hatred. You all are so sick, and you don't even realize it.


NP here. I agree with you both.
I also cannot understand how people can be so outraged about this, yet no outrage that this police report was released (and I believe it was ILLEGALLY released) and there was little effort to keep the identities of the victims from being public.


Why do you think the report was illegally released?


Evidently, a judge today (Stacy Zimmerman) ruled with the Duggars about the release of the police report.


Link?
Anonymous
Post 06/04/2015 22:42     Subject: Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters
Anonymous wrote:I haven't been following this and I'm not sure if I have all the facts straight, but here's my take:

No parent would call the police and pursue criminal charges against their tween...especially in a situation that involved groping and not rape. Anyone who says they would turn their kid in over this sort of thing is lying. If you were in their shoes, you would intervene, take precautions, and get everyone into therapy/treatment.

And I do feel bad for the girls. This info should not have been made public. Period. No victim should have their story made public without their consent. The media circus is shameful.

I can't stand the Duggars or what they stand for, but I don't think this information should have been made public. It simply isn't fair to those girls to publicize what was handled years ago. Regardless of how it might have been handled better or differently, it's not anyone else's call on sharing such private information about the victims. It's their story.


While I agree it would be difficult (and likely not the very first step) for a parent to call the police I do think I would have sought a professional (therapist) and removed the child from my home - even if that meant DH taking him to a hotel until we figured something else. And I think when it happens five times and it is happening to a five year old there should have been more action. They had an obligation to protect their daughters and I think they tried to do that in some fashion I think they should have made different choices because they ultimately failed their daughters to protect their son. I wish they would have said in hindsight we wish we would have tried X or Z but i dont think they have any regrets in how they handled it.