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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

She has far more access to Waystar than either of h.er brothers, and Tom is unlikely to completely shut her out. She's not in charge but she's the only family tie to Waystar/her father's legacy.

But since Tom will just be a figurehead, not really significant.

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Anonymous wrote:I actually think Shiv saved all of them. Staying with the company would have destroyed all of them, this leaves space for them to save themselves and chart a real life.

They won't, though.

Anonymous wrote:Pierces got greedy. They are hanging in the wind

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

She has far more access to Waystar than either of h.er brothers, and Tom is unlikely to completely shut her out. She's not in charge but she's the only family tie to Waystar/her father's legacy.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone is looking at it as Tom and Shiv getting a fairy tale ending. But I also think the idea that Shiv is "becoming her mother" or that she "gave" Tom CEO via the deal so she could be closer to power is off.

My read is that they are both deeply flawed and selfish/greedy people BUT unlike many others people on the show, have both self-awareness of this fact and also see each other with a lot of clarity. I think they could have a symbiotic relationship where they both use the marriage to get what they need and they are both realistic about the fact that they are, to some degree, being used by the other one. That's actually healthier than a lot of marriages.

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Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is a far more complex character than either Kendall or Roman.

On a personal front, I think she loves Tom in the only way she knows how. Same with her baby. I took the ending to signify that Shiv is at least going to attempt a happy family for her baby. Maybe that’s way too optimistic.

I think she was the most competent Roy child - and could’ve been CEO - but her dad and then brothers dismissed her because she lacked experience and because sexism. Nobody had her back - not even her husband! - but in an alternative reality she could’ve taken over for Logan.

I 100% agree with this. Although I did think Tom had a good bit of insight into Shiv's personality and emotions when he said she "never liked to fail a test." That put a spin on things I had not grasped before, but it makes perfect sense.

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is a far more complex character than either Kendall or Roman.

On a personal front, I think she loves Tom in the only way she knows how. Same with her baby. I took the ending to signify that Shiv is at least going to attempt a happy family for her baby. Maybe that’s way too optimistic.

I think she was the most competent Roy child - and could’ve been CEO - but her dad and then brothers dismissed her because she lacked experience and because sexism. Nobody had her back - not even her husband! - but in an alternative reality she could’ve taken over for Logan.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

It’s mere proximity to power either way, folks.

Shiv had no role in Waystar beyond board member (and she’s still a board member, though not sure how that works with the acquisition).

Roman and Kendall boxed her out at CEO. Matsson dangled it and pulled it away. Sell, don’t sell, either way Shiv has no real power and is simply being promised things by men who have no history of ever coming through for her (sound familiar?).

There is no “win” for Shiv. I think she voted for the deal because it offers some closure. It’s over. She can stop pretending she and her sibs are going to run things together (they weren’t, it would be all Kendall, and she was right he’d be awful). The sale means it’s done.

I don’t know what to make of the Tom of it all. I don’t think she’s choosing him at all, much less choosing him so she can stay in proximity to power (she knows he’s an empty suit). I think she’ll probably wind up living on her own and doing her own thing whether they stay married or not.

Worst case, she’s her mom (rich, idle, annoying, bad mom). Best case, she starts her own comms company (she’s actually good at it, and very well connected in that world), makes an effort to be a better mom than hers was, and actually builds a little something for herself outside the world of Waystar and her family.

You really don’t see Shiv as the writers did, she lacks the capacity for love.

PP here and I don't know if Shiv has a capacity for love. I think it could go either way -- anyone can choose at any time to be a better person. Becoming a parent can change you. She could also just be a cold and distant mom like her own mother.

But my bigger point is that she didn't give up anything real in voting for the deal. It's not like she was going to have ANY power with Kendall at the helm. What does she have from him? A promise of some kind of role. Kendall is a drug addict who has abandoned his own children, who walked away from a dead waiter because it was easier than dealing with the consequences, who regularly plots against his family to amass more power for himself. Would YOU trust him?

She wasn't going to get anything either way. I think she genuinely just realized that Kendall would be a mess as CEO and while she hates Tom and he and Matsson screwed her over, probably the company would be better served by their leadership. I think it was a rational choice.

Well, you aren’t watching the same show as the rest of us. Perhaps Ken would be a horrible CEO, but that wasn’t why Shiv wouldn’t vote for him. If she couldn’t have the position, she was going to make sure her sibling with whom she had competed her entire life wouldn’t have it either. Nothing more. The only meaningful relationship any of the three younger siblings had was with one another, and she destroyed that. It’s suppose to be a tragedy.

You can keep reposting, sorry most don't agree with you.

There are multiple people on this thread saying this.

Anonymous wrote:I actually think Shiv saved all of them. Staying with the company would have destroyed all of them, this leaves space for them to save themselves and chart a real life.

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Anonymous wrote:Greg is just Tom Jr. always angling for the best deal for him.

Yes, but stupider.