Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?

I want the process to be very long and difficult to remove a book from a library.

And certainly not a few parents with an agenda to push.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?

PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.

P.S. Our school system also forces kids to read LGBTQ books and has removed opt-outs. As a liberal, I don't care if my kids read these books but, also as a liberal, I understand that many people are far more conservative than I am and I support their right to have the final say in what their kids may or may not learn. It is this lack of understanding that makes many (most?) progressives illiberal.

Our school forces kids to read books with hetero love stories. Oh no…
Most kids don’t give a crap. Are parents afraid their kids will turn gay? Why not expose kids to different lifestyles? Should they be in a cocoon forever?

+1

I was forced to read Romeo and Juliet which is about teen lovers! Who kill themselves!

And our school forces kids to read books involving people of different races and ethnicities and religions. Is PP saying parents should be able to say opt my kid out of reading anything about black people? Or Jewish people? Should a parent who is offended by a religion different than their own be able to opt kids out of reading a book that involves someone from that religion?

Or perhaps PP is saying we need to do away with a curriculum that has students all reading and discussing the same book. I think that must be it. Is that what you want, PP? Because you can’t just target one group and say any books with characters from this group cannot be a required part of the curriculum. If that’s what you want to do, you have to say no book can be required and then rethink your English curriculum all together And history as well. Parents should be able to opt kids out of reading history books that don’t conform to the parents world view, do you agree with that?

Come to think of it maybe parents should just take over their kids education all together and home school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?

PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.

I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.

Name the school.
This didn’t happen. You are lying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?

PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.

P.S. Our school system also forces kids to read LGBTQ books and has removed opt-outs. As a liberal, I don't care if my kids read these books but, also as a liberal, I understand that many people are far more conservative than I am and I support their right to have the final say in what their kids may or may not learn. It is this lack of understanding that makes many (most?) progressives illiberal.

Our school forces kids to read books with hetero love stories. Oh no…
Most kids don’t give a crap. Are parents afraid their kids will turn gay? Why not expose kids to different lifestyles? Should they be in a cocoon forever?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?

PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.

I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?

PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?

No censorship!!!!!!!! FiRST AMENDMENT!!!
That is what I demand. And that is what the Constitution demands as well.

The first amendment means the state cannot censor what a person says or prosecute them for their speech. It does not guarantee that a student can access porn in their school library.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?

No censorship!!!!!!!! FiRST AMENDMENT!!!
That is what I demand. And that is what the Constitution demands as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone trusted schools/librarians decisions until genderqueer and lawn boy came to light.

Then folks became a little wary because at a minimum, those books were controversial. Instead of saying, “yeah that may be a bit too far” or “we could probably do without the graphic novels about sex,” many became unwilling the common sense objections to these two and dug their heels in.

I think many left leaning folks like these mini culture wars because they can use this as an opportunity to call/label opposition as an *ist/*ism and shut down conversation about other items.

nope, Moms4liberty looked high and low for things to dig their heels into. GQ and LB were never in many elementary schools. They threw a fit because heaven forbid their kids learn anything "different." And if you know the definition of porn, GQ doesn't qualify.

Never called them porn. Just said they were controversial.

Many elementary schools? Jeez. I was hoping none, and was talking about middle schools and high schools.

Your response and PP response illustrate the issue perfectly though.

and what is that? The bible is controversial FFS

Does the Bible have pictures of strap-on blowjobs and lesbian 69ing?

It has rape, torture, murder and more. But we get it, you like rape, torture and murder.

Does the Bible have pictures of that?

Illustrated Bibles do.

But words can be just as powerful as pictures.

If those illustrated bibles contain porn they do not belong in schools either. And no, words and pictures are different. Just like silence is not violence.

Words and pictures are not different, sometimes words are more titillating.

-Woman who gets off more from reading erotica than watching porn.

This is progressivism in 2023.

The erotica/romance book industry sells more than any other type of book. Must be something about those words.

OK, thank you for admitting that words and pictures ARE, in fact, different. And written erotica has no place in schools either.

As a reader of erotica, none of the books attempting to be banned are erotica.

I doing like some who has seen an insane leftist masquerading as a librarian do a lot of damage to an entire school population.

You seem like someone who would have benefited from more books and more librarians in your life. Pity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Guaranteed that pp is unfamiliar with the concept of reading for fun. She has no problem with books being banned because she doesn’t read.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.

So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.

That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone trusted schools/librarians decisions until genderqueer and lawn boy came to light.

Then folks became a little wary because at a minimum, those books were controversial. Instead of saying, “yeah that may be a bit too far” or “we could probably do without the graphic novels about sex,” many became unwilling the common sense objections to these two and dug their heels in.

I think many left leaning folks like these mini culture wars because they can use this as an opportunity to call/label opposition as an *ist/*ism and shut down conversation about other items.

nope, Moms4liberty looked high and low for things to dig their heels into. GQ and LB were never in many elementary schools. They threw a fit because heaven forbid their kids learn anything "different." And if you know the definition of porn, GQ doesn't qualify.

Never called them porn. Just said they were controversial.

Many elementary schools? Jeez. I was hoping none, and was talking about middle schools and high schools.

Your response and PP response illustrate the issue perfectly though.

and what is that? The bible is controversial FFS

Does the Bible have pictures of strap-on blowjobs and lesbian 69ing?

It has rape, torture, murder and more. But we get it, you like rape, torture and murder.

Does the Bible have pictures of that?

Illustrated Bibles do.

But words can be just as powerful as pictures.

If those illustrated bibles contain porn they do not belong in schools either. And no, words and pictures are different. Just like silence is not violence.

Words and pictures are not different, sometimes words are more titillating.

-Woman who gets off more from reading erotica than watching porn.

This is progressivism in 2023.

The erotica/romance book industry sells more than any other type of book. Must be something about those words.

OK, thank you for admitting that words and pictures ARE, in fact, different. And written erotica has no place in schools either.

Careful there are a lot of literary gems that could be classified as erotica.

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Anonymous wrote:I think everyone trusted schools/librarians decisions until genderqueer and lawn boy came to light.

Then folks became a little wary because at a minimum, those books were controversial. Instead of saying, “yeah that may be a bit too far” or “we could probably do without the graphic novels about sex,” many became unwilling the common sense objections to these two and dug their heels in.

I think many left leaning folks like these mini culture wars because they can use this as an opportunity to call/label opposition as an *ist/*ism and shut down conversation about other items.

nope, Moms4liberty looked high and low for things to dig their heels into. GQ and LB were never in many elementary schools. They threw a fit because heaven forbid their kids learn anything "different." And if you know the definition of porn, GQ doesn't qualify.

Never called them porn. Just said they were controversial.

Many elementary schools? Jeez. I was hoping none, and was talking about middle schools and high schools.

Your response and PP response illustrate the issue perfectly though.

and what is that? The bible is controversial FFS

Does the Bible have pictures of strap-on blowjobs and lesbian 69ing?

It has rape, torture, murder and more. But we get it, you like rape, torture and murder.

Does the Bible have pictures of that?

Illustrated Bibles do.

But words can be just as powerful as pictures.

If those illustrated bibles contain porn they do not belong in schools either. And no, words and pictures are different. Just like silence is not violence.

Words and pictures are not different, sometimes words are more titillating.

-Woman who gets off more from reading erotica than watching porn.

This is progressivism in 2023.

The erotica/romance book industry sells more than any other type of book. Must be something about those words.

OK, thank you for admitting that words and pictures ARE, in fact, different. And written erotica has no place in schools either.