Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

last comment for a while

I'd take the top 100 at an AAP center over the top 1.5% at the lower performing middle schools. And if you are honest with yourself so would you.

I wouldn't! Typically the AAP kids are mostly just average kids with pushy parents but the top 1.5% at the less affluent schools are truly gifted.

Exactly! That"s been our experience too. AAP isn't a gifted program. It's the top 15% supposedly but not even that really. The top 1.5% of any school is just that. That's much better than any AAP.

Yes, AAP is mostly a sham and the top 1.5% at any school beats out easily beats out most of the AAP kids who are by definition just the top 15%.

Kids in the top 1.5% at a non AAP school are merely the top of the kids not deemed to be in the top 15%. AAP selection is imperfect, but if the top 15% leave for AAP, then the gen ed kid who is at the 84th percentile would become the top kid left behind. A kid who is at the top only because the overwhelming majority of the smart kids left the school is not in any way gifted or TJ worthy.

AAP selection is imperfect, but it's not so imperfect that nearly 1/3 of the TJ spots ought to be reserved exclusively for gen ed kids. For the most part, the issues with AAP selection are that they're over-including kids, such that the bottom half of AAP is indistinguishable from the top 10% in gen ed. They're not generally missing kids who are gifted.

Only the super high-maintenance Karnes fuss over AAP. Half the population doesn't even know what it is and doesn't bother to apply or push for their kids to get in. The top 1.5% is really the top 1.5%. AAP is just the top 15% or worse. Many wouldn't even make the top 15% if not for extreme prep or private diagnoses that has allowed them access.

Wrong. Even if in theory a child were gifted or quite advanced but had parents who didn't know about AAP, that child would still get into AAP. The CogAT and NNAT are nationally normed against an un-prepped population. A gifted child without any prep ought to be able to score a 132+, which would easily put them in the pool at the lower SES schools.

Even if a child is impressive but doesn't test well, teachers can refer kids for AAP. The AAP equity report showed that a significant number of 2nd graders are referred by their teachers for AAP (500+). This would largely be the kids that the school thinks ought to be in AAP, but who have the parents who are unlikely to apply. Teachers can continue referring kids through 7th grade, and it's likely that kids referred by teachers would have a very high GBRS and thus a very high chance of being admitted.

The AAP admissions process is set up to identify capable children who don't have involved parents. Stop acting as if FCPS is dropping the ball on this process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

last comment for a while

I'd take the top 100 at an AAP center over the top 1.5% at the lower performing middle schools. And if you are honest with yourself so would you.

I wouldn't! Typically the AAP kids are mostly just average kids with pushy parents but the top 1.5% at the less affluent schools are truly gifted.

Exactly! That"s been our experience too. AAP isn't a gifted program. It's the top 15% supposedly but not even that really. The top 1.5% of any school is just that. That's much better than any AAP.

Yes, AAP is mostly a sham and the top 1.5% at any school beats out easily beats out most of the AAP kids who are by definition just the top 15%.

Kids in the top 1.5% at a non AAP school are merely the top of the kids not deemed to be in the top 15%. AAP selection is imperfect, but if the top 15% leave for AAP, then the gen ed kid who is at the 84th percentile would become the top kid left behind. A kid who is at the top only because the overwhelming majority of the smart kids left the school is not in any way gifted or TJ worthy.

AAP selection is imperfect, but it's not so imperfect that nearly 1/3 of the TJ spots ought to be reserved exclusively for gen ed kids. For the most part, the issues with AAP selection are that they're over-including kids, such that the bottom half of AAP is indistinguishable from the top 10% in gen ed. They're not generally missing kids who are gifted.

Only the super high-maintenance Karnes fuss over AAP. Half the population doesn't even know what it is and doesn't bother to apply or push for their kids to get in. The top 1.5% is really the top 1.5%. AAP is just the top 15% or worse. Many wouldn't even make the top 15% if not for extreme prep or private diagnoses that has allowed them access.

*this*

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

last comment for a while

I'd take the top 100 at an AAP center over the top 1.5% at the lower performing middle schools. And if you are honest with yourself so would you.

I wouldn't! Typically the AAP kids are mostly just average kids with pushy parents but the top 1.5% at the less affluent schools are truly gifted.

Exactly! That"s been our experience too. AAP isn't a gifted program. It's the top 15% supposedly but not even that really. The top 1.5% of any school is just that. That's much better than any AAP.

Yes, AAP is mostly a sham and the top 1.5% at any school beats out easily beats out most of the AAP kids who are by definition just the top 15%.

True but the super pushy AAP parents want to pretend their top 15% kid is better than the very top 1.5%, but the top 10% in AAP is comparable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

last comment for a while

I'd take the top 100 at an AAP center over the top 1.5% at the lower performing middle schools. And if you are honest with yourself so would you.

I wouldn't! Typically the AAP kids are mostly just average kids with pushy parents but the top 1.5% at the less affluent schools are truly gifted.

Exactly! That"s been our experience too. AAP isn't a gifted program. It's the top 15% supposedly but not even that really. The top 1.5% of any school is just that. That's much better than any AAP.

Yes, AAP is mostly a sham and the top 1.5% at any school beats out easily beats out most of the AAP kids who are by definition just the top 15%.

Kids in the top 1.5% at a non AAP school are merely the top of the kids not deemed to be in the top 15%. AAP selection is imperfect, but if the top 15% leave for AAP, then the gen ed kid who is at the 84th percentile would become the top kid left behind. A kid who is at the top only because the overwhelming majority of the smart kids left the school is not in any way gifted or TJ worthy.

AAP selection is imperfect, but it's not so imperfect that nearly 1/3 of the TJ spots ought to be reserved exclusively for gen ed kids. For the most part, the issues with AAP selection are that they're over-including kids, such that the bottom half of AAP is indistinguishable from the top 10% in gen ed. They're not generally missing kids who are gifted.

Only the super high-maintenance Karnes fuss over AAP. Half the population doesn't even know what it is and doesn't bother to apply or push for their kids to get in. The top 1.5% is really the top 1.5%. AAP is just the top 15% or worse. Many wouldn't even make the top 15% if not for extreme prep or private diagnoses that has allowed them access.

Except that it isn't. They don't have a magic wand to identify the true top 1.5% anywhere. A kid at my school got on the of the 7 allocated spots when in reality he wouldn't even crack the top 100 students. He needed extensive tutoring to handle his courses, didn't get straight As despite the tutoring, didn't shine in any ECs and isn't even a strong writer. I can only guess that he was coached for the essays or had someone else write them for him, and he is almost certainly a Curie student. He also likely fraudulently got the FARMS experience factor points. If they still had any sort of comprehensive application or even just teacher recommendations, this kid would have been filtered out of the TJ pool. Instead, he's identified as the "top 1.5%."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

last comment for a while

I'd take the top 100 at an AAP center over the top 1.5% at the lower performing middle schools. And if you are honest with yourself so would you.

I wouldn't! Typically the AAP kids are mostly just average kids with pushy parents but the top 1.5% at the less affluent schools are truly gifted.

Exactly! That"s been our experience too. AAP isn't a gifted program. It's the top 15% supposedly but not even that really. The top 1.5% of any school is just that. That's much better than any AAP.

Yes, AAP is mostly a sham and the top 1.5% at any school beats out easily beats out most of the AAP kids who are by definition just the top 15%.

Kids in the top 1.5% at a non AAP school are merely the top of the kids not deemed to be in the top 15%. AAP selection is imperfect, but if the top 15% leave for AAP, then the gen ed kid who is at the 84th percentile would become the top kid left behind. A kid who is at the top only because the overwhelming majority of the smart kids left the school is not in any way gifted or TJ worthy.

AAP selection is imperfect, but it's not so imperfect that nearly 1/3 of the TJ spots ought to be reserved exclusively for gen ed kids. For the most part, the issues with AAP selection are that they're over-including kids, such that the bottom half of AAP is indistinguishable from the top 10% in gen ed. They're not generally missing kids who are gifted.

Only the super high-maintenance Karnes fuss over AAP. Half the population doesn't even know what it is and doesn't bother to apply or push for their kids to get in. The top 1.5% is really the top 1.5%. AAP is just the top 15% or worse. Many wouldn't even make the top 15% if not for extreme prep or private diagnoses that has allowed them access.

you have no idea what the f you are talking about

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

last comment for a while

I'd take the top 100 at an AAP center over the top 1.5% at the lower performing middle schools. And if you are honest with yourself so would you.

I wouldn't! Typically the AAP kids are mostly just average kids with pushy parents but the top 1.5% at the less affluent schools are truly gifted.

Exactly! That"s been our experience too. AAP isn't a gifted program. It's the top 15% supposedly but not even that really. The top 1.5% of any school is just that. That's much better than any AAP.

Yes, AAP is mostly a sham and the top 1.5% at any school beats out easily beats out most of the AAP kids who are by definition just the top 15%.

Kids in the top 1.5% at a non AAP school are merely the top of the kids not deemed to be in the top 15%. AAP selection is imperfect, but if the top 15% leave for AAP, then the gen ed kid who is at the 84th percentile would become the top kid left behind. A kid who is at the top only because the overwhelming majority of the smart kids left the school is not in any way gifted or TJ worthy.

AAP selection is imperfect, but it's not so imperfect that nearly 1/3 of the TJ spots ought to be reserved exclusively for gen ed kids. For the most part, the issues with AAP selection are that they're over-including kids, such that the bottom half of AAP is indistinguishable from the top 10% in gen ed. They're not generally missing kids who are gifted.

Only the super high-maintenance Karnes fuss over AAP. Half the population doesn't even know what it is and doesn't bother to apply or push for their kids to get in. The top 1.5% is really the top 1.5%. AAP is just the top 15% or worse. Many wouldn't even make the top 15% if not for extreme prep or private diagnoses that has allowed them access.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing is that the gen ed kids are now using prep and tutors to keep up with their schoolwork.

This is nothing new. There are kids who struggle in Gen Ed.

Gen ed kids at TJ are new.

Not true! There have always been a very, very small number of Gen Ed kids at TJ.

Honestly, those kids did belong at TJ. They competed in a rigorous application process against a bunch of AAP kids and still managed to shine. AAP selection is imperfect, and the door to TJ should always be left open for the kids who are somehow missed or who really blossom in middle school. There's no reason that talented gen ed kids couldn't compete for TJ spots in a pyramid wide top 1.5% pool rather than one exclusively for their gen ed MS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

last comment for a while

I'd take the top 100 at an AAP center over the top 1.5% at the lower performing middle schools. And if you are honest with yourself so would you.

I wouldn't! Typically the AAP kids are mostly just average kids with pushy parents but the top 1.5% at the less affluent schools are truly gifted.

Exactly! That"s been our experience too. AAP isn't a gifted program. It's the top 15% supposedly but not even that really. The top 1.5% of any school is just that. That's much better than any AAP.

Yes, AAP is mostly a sham and the top 1.5% at any school beats out easily beats out most of the AAP kids who are by definition just the top 15%.

Kids in the top 1.5% at a non AAP school are merely the top of the kids not deemed to be in the top 15%. AAP selection is imperfect, but if the top 15% leave for AAP, then the gen ed kid who is at the 84th percentile would become the top kid left behind. A kid who is at the top only because the overwhelming majority of the smart kids left the school is not in any way gifted or TJ worthy.

AAP selection is imperfect, but it's not so imperfect that nearly 1/3 of the TJ spots ought to be reserved exclusively for gen ed kids. For the most part, the issues with AAP selection are that they're over-including kids, such that the bottom half of AAP is indistinguishable from the top 10% in gen ed. They're not generally missing kids who are gifted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing is that the gen ed kids are now using prep and tutors to keep up with their schoolwork.

This is nothing new. There are kids who struggle in Gen Ed.

Gen ed kids at TJ are new.

Not true! There have always been a very, very small number of Gen Ed kids at TJ.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

last comment for a while

I'd take the top 100 at an AAP center over the top 1.5% at the lower performing middle schools. And if you are honest with yourself so would you.

I wouldn't! Typically the AAP kids are mostly just average kids with pushy parents but the top 1.5% at the less affluent schools are truly gifted.

Exactly! That"s been our experience too. AAP isn't a gifted program. It's the top 15% supposedly but not even that really. The top 1.5% of any school is just that. That's much better than any AAP.

Yes, AAP is mostly a sham and the top 1.5% at any school beats out easily beats out most of the AAP kids who are by definition just the top 15%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing is that the gen ed kids are now using prep and tutors to keep up with their schoolwork.

This is nothing new. There are kids who struggle in Gen Ed.

Gen ed kids at TJ are new.

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing is that the gen ed kids are now using prep and tutors to keep up with their schoolwork.

This is nothing new. There are kids who struggle in Gen Ed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

last comment for a while

I'd take the top 100 at an AAP center over the top 1.5% at the lower performing middle schools. And if you are honest with yourself so would you.

I wouldn't! Typically the AAP kids are mostly just average kids with pushy parents but the top 1.5% at the less affluent schools are truly gifted.

Exactly! That"s been our experience too. AAP isn't a gifted program. It's the top 15% supposedly but not even that really. The top 1.5% of any school is just that. That's much better than any AAP.

There is no "top 1.5%" of any school. There is only the top 1.5% based mostly on unproctored essays, unverified achievements listed in the essays, and unvetted experience factors. The kids who googled the answer to the problem solving essay, had a parent write or proofread their essays, or who got extensive coaching on how to write essays at their prep center are the ones who got in - not the actual top 1.5% of the kids at any given school.

It's mind boggling to me that any kids are being allowed into TJ who didn't at least take all Honors. If a kid is not capable of Honors English or Honors History, that kid will get destroyed by the TJ Language arts/Humanities classes. Also, it's mind boggling to me that GPA is so minimized. Middle School GPA is a much better predictor for how well kids will be able to do at TJ than essays are.

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing is that the gen ed kids are now using prep and tutors to keep up with their schoolwork.

Kids at TJ who were admitted under the old process have been doing this for years. If it’s happening now, it’s far from new.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is about TJ admissions

We actually agree, actual genius kids from generally high SES schools should be getting in regardless of if they are in AAP or not

"Top" students at lower SES schools are nowhere close to these folks and have no business taking TJ spots

That's actually not true. The differences at best aren't negligible. I get that some people want to believe differently because it's self-serving.

+1