Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WTF are you talking about PP? I am a lefty and do not want "porn" in my kid's school library. I believe that your definition of porn and mine are radically different.

Also, why are you prattling on about CRT? CRT isn't taught anywhere at the elementary, middle or high school level. Stop getting your talking points from OAN.

As a liberal I do believe that books that have gay characters or that discuss sexuality in an age appropriate way are acceptable for upper elementary kids, depending on how it is presented. Many of the 9-10 year olds may be starting puberty.(mostly the girls, but still)

Actually, I see lots of crap in the school library that I wish weren't there but I don't think it should be banned. The content isn't controversial just not particularly educational.

Personally, I trust the librarians to do a good job of curating the books in my kid's school library. I'll disclose my bias here. my mom was an elementary school teacher and a principal so I can see education from both sides.

As you said your definition of porn and mine are different. I consider images of strap-on blowjobs, lesbian 69ing, and teens having sex to be porn. And I'm not a prude. I'm liberal myself, just not a leftist. There's a good chance you're not actually liberal anymore but I'm not sure. Most leftists aren't. For example "CRT isn't taught anywhere at the elementary, middle or high school level" is not a liberal statement because if you think about it critically, you cannot possibly know that. All I have to do is show one teacher in one school teaching it and it disproves your statement. Most liberals are smarter than that. If you'd like to define CRT, I'll show how it's being taught in K-13 schools after removing "is only taught in college and law school" from your definition. And, as a liberal, watch OAN except for a good laugh on occasion. Speaking of TV, I suggest you stop watching Maddow and Morning Joe as consuming too much of their leftist drivel tends to make one illiberal. As a leftist, I'm sure you do support most librarians. To be fair, I do as well. But many of them are leftist as was our kids middle school librarian who was responsible for bringing lessons on CRT into the school during Covid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone trusted schools/librarians decisions until genderqueer and lawn boy came to light.

Then folks became a little wary because at a minimum, those books were controversial. Instead of saying, “yeah that may be a bit too far” or “we could probably do without the graphic novels about sex,” many became unwilling the common sense objections to these two and dug their heels in.

I think many left leaning folks like these mini culture wars because they can use this as an opportunity to call/label opposition as an *ist/*ism and shut down conversation about other items.

nope, Moms4liberty looked high and low for things to dig their heels into. GQ and LB were never in many elementary schools. They threw a fit because heaven forbid their kids learn anything "different." And if you know the definition of porn, GQ doesn't qualify.

Never called them porn. Just said they were controversial.

Many elementary schools? Jeez. I was hoping none, and was talking about middle schools and high schools.

Your response and PP response illustrate the issue perfectly though.

and what is that? The bible is controversial FFS

Does the Bible have pictures of strap-on blowjobs and lesbian 69ing?

It has rape, torture, murder and more. But we get it, you like rape, torture and murder.

Does the Bible have pictures of that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

So what do you think the process should be?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone trusted schools/librarians decisions until genderqueer and lawn boy came to light.

Then folks became a little wary because at a minimum, those books were controversial. Instead of saying, “yeah that may be a bit too far” or “we could probably do without the graphic novels about sex,” many became unwilling the common sense objections to these two and dug their heels in.

I think many left leaning folks like these mini culture wars because they can use this as an opportunity to call/label opposition as an *ist/*ism and shut down conversation about other items.

Anonymous wrote:WTF are you talking about PP? I am a lefty and do not want "porn" in my kid's school library. I believe that your definition of porn and mine are radically different.

Also, why are you prattling on about CRT? CRT isn't taught anywhere at the elementary, middle or high school level. Stop getting your talking points from OAN.

As a liberal I do believe that books that have gay characters or that discuss sexuality in an age appropriate way are acceptable for upper elementary kids, depending on how it is presented. Many of the 9-10 year olds may be starting puberty.(mostly the girls, but still)

Actually, I see lots of crap in the school library that I wish weren't there but I don't think it should be banned. The content isn't controversial just not particularly educational.

Personally, I trust the librarians to do a good job of curating the books in my kid's school library. I'll disclose my bias here. my mom was an elementary school teacher and a principal so I can see education from both sides.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?

It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.

Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s good to see Republicans getting proved wrong and them just ignoring the evidence. It’s not a gish gallop, but I can’t remember what it is they’re doing.

I don’t know what they’re doing to themselves, but they’re certainly trying to gaslight us.

They sure are! I think they think that if they can just befuddle us, like nimble carnies at a carnival, we won’t notice that they’re a party of wretched christofascists bent on making the world White, straight, “Christian” and male oriented again.

They’ve banned books about Muslim kids.

They’ve banned books about Jewish culture.

They’ve banned books about women’s history.

They’ve banned books that say you’re okay if you don’t perfectly fit in.

They’ve banned books about Harriet Tubman, who is, as far as I’m concerned, one of the true American heroes.

Representation makes people see themselves as important. They want girls, Black kids, immigrants, non-Christians and people who don’t fit in not to see themselves. They want those kids to feel invisible, to act small enough that they don’t shine. I have four White Christian boys and it is absolutely intolerable to me that some sector of religious extremists - who can’t even behave themselves according to their own creed - wants to make the world as it was in the 1950s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s good to see Republicans getting proved wrong and them just ignoring the evidence. It’s not a gish gallop, but I can’t remember what it is they’re doing.

I don’t know what they’re doing to themselves, but they’re certainly trying to gaslight us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone trusted schools/librarians decisions until genderqueer and lawn boy came to light.

Then folks became a little wary because at a minimum, those books were controversial. Instead of saying, “yeah that may be a bit too far” or “we could probably do without the graphic novels about sex,” many became unwilling the common sense objections to these two and dug their heels in.

I think many left leaning folks like these mini culture wars because they can use this as an opportunity to call/label opposition as an *ist/*ism and shut down conversation about other items.

nope, Moms4liberty looked high and low for things to dig their heels into. GQ and LB were never in many elementary schools. They threw a fit because heaven forbid their kids learn anything "different." And if you know the definition of porn, GQ doesn't qualify.

Never called them porn. Just said they were controversial.

Many elementary schools? Jeez. I was hoping none, and was talking about middle schools and high schools.

Your response and PP response illustrate the issue perfectly though.

Anonymous wrote:It’s good to see Republicans getting proved wrong and them just ignoring the evidence. It’s not a gish gallop, but I can’t remember what it is they’re doing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I just became in favor of book banning

Wow, that’s a terribly bad faith presentation. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/possible-teach-in-at-oakland-schools-would-present-palestinian-perspective-to-students/

Here’s the lesson plan linked via the above article. It appears to teach what Senator Wiener claims about as much as the Florida book bans are about porn. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yHuTs87SSfWaM6qeM6y3RXgEOzjiKF_c75fLMN-2fZk/mobilebasic#h.pg1gql1c1zfc

I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.

You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"

Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.

Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.

Many more examples linked in here:
Hundreds of books are usually banned by just ONE person in a community
https://action.everylibrary.org/books_are_often_banned_by_just_one_person_in_a_community

I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?

Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.

That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?