Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like MU. I know it well because my child played for them. I wish everyone still at MU well. I think they do an excellent job of development. But whether we like it or not, or think it matters for development or not, they'll need to start winning some games for long-term viability of the club.

Yeah, it's ok to take losses, but to lose over and over across the board year after year on multiple teams does indicate something is wrong. Soccer is a competitive sport, and winning is a sign of competing well.

Players should also not be inoculated into believing losing is normal. A truly competitive player won't walk away ok with that. She has a fire inside that burns and makes her want to win. It's what gives her that edge in those 50/50 moments.

A) Winning is the only thing that matters
B) Winning doesn't matter at all

I think both A and B are too extreme, and the truth is somewhere in between. One of the big problems with MU for the first two years (as Spirit) was that they were operating under philosophy "B", and a lot of their decisions/communications reflected the lack of priority they placed on winning. That seemed to change once MU was announced, and I believe they are trying to move the club towards a more healthy understanding of the importance of winning; Not that it is the only thing, but that it should actually be the goal of each match they play.

Unfortunately I think it will take time to see a significant impact of this philosophy shift on overall W-L records. If a typical MU team has XX number of matches each season where they face an evenly matched opponent, historically they seem to win about 20% of those matches. A renewed emphasis on winning could push that win percentage up to a more reasonable 50% or more of their evenly-matched games, but that would still have them well below .500 overall because they are simply overmatched in some games.

The important metric will not be overall record (or individual scorelines against FCV...), instead it will be whether or not they can start winning their fair share of the evenly matched games instead of consistently settling for moral victories.

Good grief. Yes, they need to recruit better talent to fill out their teams. How many times does that need to be said? But at least those who have been there can admit that development/environment isn’t really the issue. The issue is scared parents chasing clubs who have winning records.

Anonymous wrote:I like MU. I know it well because my child played for them. I wish everyone still at MU well. I think they do an excellent job of development. But whether we like it or not, or think it matters for development or not, they'll need to start winning some games for long-term viability of the club.

Yeah, it's ok to take losses, but to lose over and over across the board year after year on multiple teams does indicate something is wrong. Soccer is a competitive sport, and winning is a sign of competing well.

Players should also not be inoculated into believing losing is normal. A truly competitive player won't walk away ok with that. She has a fire inside that burns and makes her want to win. It's what gives her that edge in those 50/50 moments.

I like MU. I know it well because my child played for them. I wish everyone still at MU well. I think they do an excellent job of development. But whether we like it or not, or think it matters for development or not, they'll need to start winning some games for long-term viability of the club.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Anyone can watch them play, watch the coaches coach, talk with other parents, etc.

Score line isn’t the only indicator.

Except if MU wins. Then it’s the ONLY indicator.

When FCV lets any win go un-Tweeted then the above statement holds water.

Anonymous wrote:NP. Anyone can watch them play, watch the coaches coach, talk with other parents, etc.

Score line isn’t the only indicator.

Except if MU wins. Then it’s the ONLY indicator.

NP. Anyone can watch them play, watch the coaches coach, talk with other parents, etc.

Score line isn’t the only indicator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you evaluate "doing a great job"?

Generally speaking, when your players want to stay and new players from the outside are fighting to make the team.

Specifically, lots of factors and my factors likely have differences from yours and those of other parents.

But if your team/club is facing mass exodus and no one is clamoring to join, maybe that bag of clues from Amazon would help.

As indicated, different people have different factors. Most in my experience value winning above all else. If you are the persistent troll here, as it seems based on the “mass exodus” comment, I suspect that includes you.

IMO, the win chasers need the bag of clues from Amazon.

Well we agree on something. I find the "win chasers", the GotSoccer ranking quoters, the scoreline reporters and the scrimmage analysts generally clueless. I also, however, find those that become cheerleaders for their club just as foolish. Spinning and rationalizing in a never-ending fashion.

And regarding the mass exodus comment, mass exodus is never good unless you think all the people leaving are not smart enough to know what is good for them. Unfortunately, your comments come off a bit like someone that thinks they know everything and who's job it is to make sure you let everyone else know what is good for them.

Not buying into that. Sorry.

And that's OK; you come off as someone who only looks at results to determine the worth of an environment. If you look at the whole of this thread, there is no spinner singing praises of MU. People acknowledge the challenges along with the positives.

Creating a perception that all MU players aren't worthwhile just because of the W-L records and scorelines is way off the mark. This shows in the recruiting patterns. People on this board (and I'm sure in their interpersonal lives) seem to be doing what they can to scare others away from MU. The Spirit and their handling/mismanagement of their DA program surely didn't help. But all of that says nothing about the environment and coaching the current players are receiving, nor their quality as players.

This seems to be the second time you have not read what I wrote before responding. I believe I clearly typed that I find the win-chasers clueless. You may have missed that portion but just to be clear, winning is not, itself, indicative of much to me.

MU could be a place I would take my DD to if they were doing enough things well. In my opinion, they are below a top-level environment in SEVERAL areas no matter how many times parents say "they are developing so well". It simply isn't enough for me to just SAY things are just as good there as other places. I don't make decisions like that.

This is not to say they won't become a top-level environment someday. And if that happens and if that happens before my DD graduates HS and there are deficiencies in the environment she is in then maybe she will see if it is a good fit for her. Just like she would at any other club. It really is that simple. No cheerleading for me.

Actually no, I haven't misread you. As you are not in the program, I don't believe you are qualified to make those judgments.

Please share why you feel as such "In my opinion, they are below a top-level environment" given you aren't in the program and, other than scorelines and records, have not seen the current programming first hand?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you evaluate "doing a great job"?

Generally speaking, when your players want to stay and new players from the outside are fighting to make the team.

Specifically, lots of factors and my factors likely have differences from yours and those of other parents.

But if your team/club is facing mass exodus and no one is clamoring to join, maybe that bag of clues from Amazon would help.

As indicated, different people have different factors. Most in my experience value winning above all else. If you are the persistent troll here, as it seems based on the “mass exodus” comment, I suspect that includes you.

IMO, the win chasers need the bag of clues from Amazon.

Well we agree on something. I find the "win chasers", the GotSoccer ranking quoters, the scoreline reporters and the scrimmage analysts generally clueless. I also, however, find those that become cheerleaders for their club just as foolish. Spinning and rationalizing in a never-ending fashion.

And regarding the mass exodus comment, mass exodus is never good unless you think all the people leaving are not smart enough to know what is good for them. Unfortunately, your comments come off a bit like someone that thinks they know everything and who's job it is to make sure you let everyone else know what is good for them.

Not buying into that. Sorry.

And that's OK; you come off as someone who only looks at results to determine the worth of an environment. If you look at the whole of this thread, there is no spinner singing praises of MU. People acknowledge the challenges along with the positives.

Creating a perception that all MU players aren't worthwhile just because of the W-L records and scorelines is way off the mark. This shows in the recruiting patterns. People on this board (and I'm sure in their interpersonal lives) seem to be doing what they can to scare others away from MU. The Spirit and their handling/mismanagement of their DA program surely didn't help. But all of that says nothing about the environment and coaching the current players are receiving, nor their quality as players.

This seems to be the second time you have not read what I wrote before responding. I believe I clearly typed that I find the win-chasers clueless. You may have missed that portion but just to be clear, winning is not, itself, indicative of much to me.

MU could be a place I would take my DD to if they were doing enough things well. In my opinion, they are below a top-level environment in SEVERAL areas no matter how many times parents say "they are developing so well". It simply isn't enough for me to just SAY things are just as good there as other places. I don't make decisions like that.

This is not to say they won't become a top-level environment someday. And if that happens and if that happens before my DD graduates HS and there are deficiencies in the environment she is in then maybe she will see if it is a good fit for her. Just like she would at any other club. It really is that simple. No cheerleading for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you evaluate "doing a great job"?

Generally speaking, when your players want to stay and new players from the outside are fighting to make the team.

Specifically, lots of factors and my factors likely have differences from yours and those of other parents.

But if your team/club is facing mass exodus and no one is clamoring to join, maybe that bag of clues from Amazon would help.

As indicated, different people have different factors. Most in my experience value winning above all else. If you are the persistent troll here, as it seems based on the “mass exodus” comment, I suspect that includes you.

IMO, the win chasers need the bag of clues from Amazon.

Well we agree on something. I find the "win chasers", the GotSoccer ranking quoters, the scoreline reporters and the scrimmage analysts generally clueless. I also, however, find those that become cheerleaders for their club just as foolish. Spinning and rationalizing in a never-ending fashion.

And regarding the mass exodus comment, mass exodus is never good unless you think all the people leaving are not smart enough to know what is good for them. Unfortunately, your comments come off a bit like someone that thinks they know everything and who's job it is to make sure you let everyone else know what is good for them.

Not buying into that. Sorry.

And that's OK; you come off as someone who only looks at results to determine the worth of an environment. If you look at the whole of this thread, there is no spinner singing praises of MU. People acknowledge the challenges along with the positives.

Creating a perception that all MU players aren't worthwhile just because of the W-L records and scorelines is way off the mark. This shows in the recruiting patterns. People on this board (and I'm sure in their interpersonal lives) seem to be doing what they can to scare others away from MU. The Spirit and their handling/mismanagement of their DA program surely didn't help. But all of that says nothing about the environment and coaching the current players are receiving, nor their quality as players.

And how much of their management is 'new' from the Spirit --> MU transition?

How many new people came on board to help lead MU?

The problem was never management but OWNERSHIP. Ownership had made mandates that made running a successful competitive DA program difficult because the greater concern with the bottom line.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you evaluate "doing a great job"?

Generally speaking, when your players want to stay and new players from the outside are fighting to make the team.

Specifically, lots of factors and my factors likely have differences from yours and those of other parents.

But if your team/club is facing mass exodus and no one is clamoring to join, maybe that bag of clues from Amazon would help.

As indicated, different people have different factors. Most in my experience value winning above all else. If you are the persistent troll here, as it seems based on the “mass exodus” comment, I suspect that includes you.

IMO, the win chasers need the bag of clues from Amazon.

Well we agree on something. I find the "win chasers", the GotSoccer ranking quoters, the scoreline reporters and the scrimmage analysts generally clueless. I also, however, find those that become cheerleaders for their club just as foolish. Spinning and rationalizing in a never-ending fashion.

And regarding the mass exodus comment, mass exodus is never good unless you think all the people leaving are not smart enough to know what is good for them. Unfortunately, your comments come off a bit like someone that thinks they know everything and who's job it is to make sure you let everyone else know what is good for them.

Not buying into that. Sorry.

And that's OK; you come off as someone who only looks at results to determine the worth of an environment. If you look at the whole of this thread, there is no spinner singing praises of MU. People acknowledge the challenges along with the positives.

Creating a perception that all MU players aren't worthwhile just because of the W-L records and scorelines is way off the mark. This shows in the recruiting patterns. People on this board (and I'm sure in their interpersonal lives) seem to be doing what they can to scare others away from MU. The Spirit and their handling/mismanagement of their DA program surely didn't help. But all of that says nothing about the environment and coaching the current players are receiving, nor their quality as players.

And how much of their management is 'new' from the Spirit --> MU transition?

How many new people came on board to help lead MU?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you evaluate "doing a great job"?

Generally speaking, when your players want to stay and new players from the outside are fighting to make the team.

Specifically, lots of factors and my factors likely have differences from yours and those of other parents.

But if your team/club is facing mass exodus and no one is clamoring to join, maybe that bag of clues from Amazon would help.

As indicated, different people have different factors. Most in my experience value winning above all else. If you are the persistent troll here, as it seems based on the “mass exodus” comment, I suspect that includes you.

IMO, the win chasers need the bag of clues from Amazon.

Well we agree on something. I find the "win chasers", the GotSoccer ranking quoters, the scoreline reporters and the scrimmage analysts generally clueless. I also, however, find those that become cheerleaders for their club just as foolish. Spinning and rationalizing in a never-ending fashion.

And regarding the mass exodus comment, mass exodus is never good unless you think all the people leaving are not smart enough to know what is good for them. Unfortunately, your comments come off a bit like someone that thinks they know everything and who's job it is to make sure you let everyone else know what is good for them.

Not buying into that. Sorry.

And that's OK; you come off as someone who only looks at results to determine the worth of an environment. If you look at the whole of this thread, there is no spinner singing praises of MU. People acknowledge the challenges along with the positives.

Creating a perception that all MU players aren't worthwhile just because of the W-L records and scorelines is way off the mark. This shows in the recruiting patterns. People on this board (and I'm sure in their interpersonal lives) seem to be doing what they can to scare others away from MU. The Spirit and their handling/mismanagement of their DA program surely didn't help. But all of that says nothing about the environment and coaching the current players are receiving, nor their quality as players.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you evaluate "doing a great job"?

Generally speaking, when your players want to stay and new players from the outside are fighting to make the team.

Specifically, lots of factors and my factors likely have differences from yours and those of other parents.

But if your team/club is facing mass exodus and no one is clamoring to join, maybe that bag of clues from Amazon would help.

As indicated, different people have different factors. Most in my experience value winning above all else. If you are the persistent troll here, as it seems based on the “mass exodus” comment, I suspect that includes you.

IMO, the win chasers need the bag of clues from Amazon.

Well we agree on something. I find the "win chasers", the GotSoccer ranking quoters, the scoreline reporters and the scrimmage analysts generally clueless. I also, however, find those that become cheerleaders for their club just as foolish. Spinning and rationalizing in a never-ending fashion.

And regarding the mass exodus comment, mass exodus is never good unless you think all the people leaving are not smart enough to know what is good for them. Unfortunately, your comments come off a bit like someone that thinks they know everything and who's job it is to make sure you let everyone else know what is good for them.

Not buying into that. Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you evaluate "doing a great job"?

Generally speaking, when your players want to stay and new players from the outside are fighting to make the team.

Specifically, lots of factors and my factors likely have differences from yours and those of other parents.

But if your team/club is facing mass exodus and no one is clamoring to join, maybe that bag of clues from Amazon would help.

As indicated, different people have different factors. Most in my experience value winning above all else. If you are the persistent troll here, as it seems based on the “mass exodus” comment, I suspect that includes you.

IMO, the win chasers need the bag of clues from Amazon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you evaluate "doing a great job"?

Generally speaking, when your players want to stay and new players from the outside are fighting to make the team.

Specifically, lots of factors and my factors likely have differences from yours and those of other parents.

But if your team/club is facing mass exodus and no one is clamoring to join, maybe that bag of clues from Amazon would help.

Based on that criteria, both MU and FCV are doing a terrible job.

If you say so. But I don't really care. I only care about the teams in my kids' age groups and, for the time-being, happy with those situations. If that changes, decisions will have to be made. Always good to be informed so sifting through the lunacy on these boards you can find some valuable information once in a while.