Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ ...and blaming the drunk person only seems to happen in cases of sexual assault.

?

What? Not true.

First, it's not victim blaming to point out how reckless it is to black out anywhere. It's a teachable moment IMHO.

If a drunk passes out and gets robbed, people would have the same reaction: sucks that you were robbed---robbery is a crime---you might not have been robbed had you not been passed out/walking down the dark alley/walking across the campus alone at 2am. Rape, robbery, falling in a ditch, whatever. A person's actions usually play a role. Pointing that out isn't victim blaming though. It's just a fact.

Yes, you are victim blaming.

If I'm sh*t faced drunk at a bar and I tell a guy that he can have access to the money in my purse. I smile and open my purse and show him the money. And he happily takes my money and buys himself dinner, appetizers and drinks. I wake up in the morning to find my money all gone. I'm not sure what happened to my money. Since I don't remember what happened to my money that means that it must have been stolen. Right?

Wow.

Yes WOW. I use that analogy because I think that it demonstrates a gray area that is usually present in date rape scenarios. Rarely does date rape involve a 100% non-responsive unaware person. Drinking your self black out drunk is serious. You do things and agree to things that you may not otherwise agree to. You may pass out in the process. You can not assume that other people are going to look out for you and act in your best interests. That goes for men and women. You need to look out for you.

If I give you ten dollars, you don't have permission to take another one hundred out of my purse if I pass out.

Anonymous wrote:she vomited after passing out and could not clear the vomit from her mouth without assistance. she might have aspirated and died. would've had nothing to do with brock.

i have learned who the victim was and it explains the well-crafted, creative statement. i have no doubt she will reveal herself soon and use the attention to her advantage.

Anonymous wrote:she vomited after passing out and could not clear the vomit from her mouth without assistance. she might have aspirated and died. would've had nothing to do with brock.

i have learned who the victim was and it explains the well-crafted, creative statement. i have no doubt she will reveal herself soon and use the attention to her advantage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This story makes me so indignant. He clearly committed a crime and lied and his father's letter was an abomination, but there was a part of the victim's letter that rubbed me the wrong way.

She didn't know she was drinking too much? Poor girl had worked so hard that day. Someone who takes 4 SHOTS before going out and then continues to drink is usually not a first time drinker. It is a known fact by now it is NOT a good idea to be drunk a frat party. He too was highly intoxicated and he is not the first frat boy to attempt rape while drunk. He was an ass and an idiot and she was a fool. Sure she has a right to get drunk if she wants and no it doesn't excuse his behavior, but she exercised really poor judgment and this is from a person who has graduated from college. He deserves to serve time, but her letter implies she made one little oops she regrets and then a beast attacked her.

You know you are in asshole territory so don't make things easy for them. Unless someone slipped something into her drink she was clearly out to party hard. This is not a freshman in college and I doubt she is naïve. The whole situation makes me sad.

I agree on many parts- I struggle with questioning the victim's ability to judge. Her letter was extremely persuasive and eloquent- but she did black out. No- a woman should not have to worry about what ifs- but she did put herself in a bad situation. The swimmer is a rapist - no doubt. As a college graduate, she should have not gotten so wasted that she blacked out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This story makes me so indignant. He clearly committed a crime and lied and his father's letter was an abomination, but there was a part of the victim's letter that rubbed me the wrong way.

She didn't know she was drinking too much? Poor girl had worked so hard that day. Someone who takes 4 SHOTS before going out and then continues to drink is usually not a first time drinker. It is a known fact by now it is NOT a good idea to be drunk a frat party. He too was highly intoxicated and he is not the first frat boy to attempt rape while drunk. He was an ass and an idiot and she was a fool. Sure she has a right to get drunk if she wants and no it doesn't excuse his behavior, but she exercised really poor judgment and this is from a person who has graduated from college. He deserves to serve time, but her letter implies she made one little oops she regrets and then a beast attacked her.

You know you are in asshole territory so don't make things easy for them. Unless someone slipped something into her drink she was clearly out to party hard. This is not a freshman in college and I doubt she is naïve. The whole situation makes me sad.

I agree on many parts- I struggle with questioning the victim's ability to judge. Her letter was extremely persuasive and eloquent- but she did black out. No- a woman should not have to worry about what ifs- but she did put herself in a bad situation. The swimmer is a rapist - no doubt. As a college graduate, she should have not gotten so wasted that she blacked out.

I don't agree with this. She said that she had not done much drinking in the last year, since graduating from college, and got drunk faster than she thought she would. As a woman who abstained during pregnancy, I can relate. Once my tolerance went down, I did misjudge how much I could drink without feeling the effects.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This story makes me so indignant. He clearly committed a crime and lied and his father's letter was an abomination, but there was a part of the victim's letter that rubbed me the wrong way.

She didn't know she was drinking too much? Poor girl had worked so hard that day. Someone who takes 4 SHOTS before going out and then continues to drink is usually not a first time drinker. It is a known fact by now it is NOT a good idea to be drunk a frat party. He too was highly intoxicated and he is not the first frat boy to attempt rape while drunk. He was an ass and an idiot and she was a fool. Sure she has a right to get drunk if she wants and no it doesn't excuse his behavior, but she exercised really poor judgment and this is from a person who has graduated from college. He deserves to serve time, but her letter implies she made one little oops she regrets and then a beast attacked her.

You know you are in asshole territory so don't make things easy for them. Unless someone slipped something into her drink she was clearly out to party hard. This is not a freshman in college and I doubt she is naïve. The whole situation makes me sad.

I agree on many parts- I struggle with questioning the victim's ability to judge. Her letter was extremely persuasive and eloquent- but she did black out. No- a woman should not have to worry about what ifs- but she did put herself in a bad situation. The swimmer is a rapist - no doubt. As a college graduate, she should have not gotten so wasted that she blacked out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This story makes me so indignant. He clearly committed a crime and lied and his father's letter was an abomination, but there was a part of the victim's letter that rubbed me the wrong way.

She didn't know she was drinking too much? Poor girl had worked so hard that day. Someone who takes 4 SHOTS before going out and then continues to drink is usually not a first time drinker. It is a known fact by now it is NOT a good idea to be drunk a frat party. He too was highly intoxicated and he is not the first frat boy to attempt rape while drunk. He was an ass and an idiot and she was a fool. Sure she has a right to get drunk if she wants and no it doesn't excuse his behavior, but she exercised really poor judgment and this is from a person who has graduated from college. He deserves to serve time, but her letter implies she made one little oops she regrets and then a beast attacked her.

You know you are in asshole territory so don't make things easy for them. Unless someone slipped something into her drink she was clearly out to party hard. This is not a freshman in college and I doubt she is naïve. The whole situation makes me sad.

Do you think this victim would have fared better getting falling down drunk at a bar and passing out on a city street?

Emily's mom didn't drop her daughters off at a cake and ice cream party. This wasn't a play date. And Emily was already 4 shots to the wind. I have no idea what size of a person Emily is but that is A LOT of alcohol for a girl to drink pre party. She was heading down a dangerous road and in some ways she is lucky that this happened to her at a frat party with a bunch of college kids.
Things could have been WAY worse for this girl. As bad as Brock's behavior was that night and as humiliating as her hospital visit was - she is alive to tell about it.

Anonymous wrote:This story makes me so indignant. He clearly committed a crime and lied and his father's letter was an abomination, but there was a part of the victim's letter that rubbed me the wrong way.

She didn't know she was drinking too much? Poor girl had worked so hard that day. Someone who takes 4 SHOTS before going out and then continues to drink is usually not a first time drinker. It is a known fact by now it is NOT a good idea to be drunk a frat party. He too was highly intoxicated and he is not the first frat boy to attempt rape while drunk. He was an ass and an idiot and she was a fool. Sure she has a right to get drunk if she wants and no it doesn't excuse his behavior, but she exercised really poor judgment and this is from a person who has graduated from college. He deserves to serve time, but her letter implies she made one little oops she regrets and then a beast attacked her.

You know you are in asshole territory so don't make things easy for them. Unless someone slipped something into her drink she was clearly out to party hard. This is not a freshman in college and I doubt she is naïve. The whole situation makes me sad.

Anonymous wrote:This story makes me so indignant. He clearly committed a crime and lied and his father's letter was an abomination, but there was a part of the victim's letter that rubbed me the wrong way.

She didn't know she was drinking too much? Poor girl had worked so hard that day. Someone who takes 4 SHOTS before going out and then continues to drink is usually not a first time drinker. It is a known fact by now it is NOT a good idea to be drunk a frat party. He too was highly intoxicated and he is not the first frat boy to attempt rape while drunk. He was an ass and an idiot and she was a fool. Sure she has a right to get drunk if she wants and no it doesn't excuse his behavior, but she exercised really poor judgment and this is from a person who has graduated from college. He deserves to serve time, but her letter implies she made one little oops she regrets and then a beast attacked her.

You know you are in asshole territory so don't make things easy for them. Unless someone slipped something into her drink she was clearly out to party hard. This is not a freshman in college and I doubt she is naïve. The whole situation makes me sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what date rape looks like when men rape unconscious females at frat parties. This is the rape culture issue. Men raised to think it's OK to rape unconscious or severely impaired drunk females at parties, due to of a culture of shame and acceptance of this behavior. This is not regret sex, this is rape.

This isn't 20 minutes of action. This is violent criminal behavior more about power and aggression than sex. This isn't sex. It's rape.

Absolutely agree. It also isn't "hook-up" culture, it's rape culture. If the swedes hadn't shown up, this could have ended so much worse for Emily. Thank-god for those angels!

No one is saying that it is o.k. to touch or rape or photograph a passed out person - male or female. No one is saying that what Brock Turner did was o.k. The minute that girl ceased to be aware of her surroundings - that is when he should have stopped what he was doing. But do realize that the only reason that the swedes stopped to intervene is because Emily was passed out. If she had been the least bit participating the swedes would have rode on, others would have walked right on by and minded their own business and deemed it a drunken hook up. Typical frat party stuff.

Did Brock know that Emily was going to pass out when they walked behind those dumpsters together? I don't think that he had any way of knowing just how drunk she was. Emily herself says that she's surprised that she passed out like that. But she did pass out and Brock didn't have the decency to get off her. This all happened in the span of about 5 to 7 minutes...and would forever change the course of their lives.

Emily - that pretty, eloquent, sister/daughter/girlfriend, full time employee and college grad wound up passed out half naked by a dumpster with an underage drunk freshman dry humping her. And there are 42 crime scene photos to verify the state that she was found in. And invasive rape kit tests plus photos too. All evidence - seen by jurors, police, lawyers, judge and even her own parents. Sordid, sad, humiliating.

Brock - tall, lean, fit Olympic level swimmer. College athletic scholarship. Beloved son and friend to many. Got drunk, dry humped and touched a half naked passed out woman. Now he's a convicted sex offender who will be on the sex offender registry for the rest of his life. Disgraced, kicked out, jailed, convicted.

I'll bet if these two could press an "erase" button and never meet they would do it in a heartbeat. Unlike Emily I do not think that it was inevitable that Brock was going to do this to some girl. If not her than another girl. I think that if she had stayed semi sober that night things would have turned out differently for her. And for Brock. And if they had both stayed sober they likely never would have met in the first place. I think that Brock gets that. I don't know that Emily does. I hope that they can both help other young people by sharing their stories.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ ...and blaming the drunk person only seems to happen in cases of sexual assault.

?

What? Not true.

First, it's not victim blaming to point out how reckless it is to black out anywhere. It's a teachable moment IMHO.

If a drunk passes out and gets robbed, people would have the same reaction: sucks that you were robbed---robbery is a crime---you might not have been robbed had you not been passed out/walking down the dark alley/walking across the campus alone at 2am. Rape, robbery, falling in a ditch, whatever. A person's actions usually play a role. Pointing that out isn't victim blaming though. It's just a fact.

Yes, you are victim blaming.

If I'm sh*t faced drunk at a bar and I tell a guy that he can have access to the money in my purse. I smile and open my purse and show him the money. And he happily takes my money and buys himself dinner, appetizers and drinks. I wake up in the morning to find my money all gone. I'm not sure what happened to my money. Since I don't remember what happened to my money that means that it must have been stolen. Right?

Wow.

Yes WOW. I use that analogy because I think that it demonstrates a gray area that is usually present in date rape scenarios. Rarely does date rape involve a 100% non-responsive unaware person. Drinking your self black out drunk is serious. You do things and agree to things that you may not otherwise agree to. You may pass out in the process. You can not assume that other people are going to look out for you and act in your best interests. That goes for men and women. You need to look out for you.

Thanks for helping me completely lose faith in humanity. So men should "look out for themselves" and "take" women who are not physically strong enough or are too intoxicated to fight them off? You're a disgusting pig. In fact, date rape is most often black and white. She wants to stop and he doesn't, and she "looks out for himself" and overpowers her (often). Or HE KNOWS she is to out of it to make him stop or say yes or no, and "looks out for himself" and takes what he wants.

And if Brock Turner ends up with a cell mate ("acquaintance") who "looks out for himself"? I guess that's not a shade of grey, because women want to be sexually assaulted or have it coming and men don't. I mean-- Brock should know when he goes to jail that he could be raped, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No frat boy was soooo drunk he accidentally raped another bro when he fell off the balcony and his dick slipped into his bro's ass. It's predatory and a culture of violence against women.

This. Odd that the drunk frat brat can't control the way he treats women, but can control the way he treats men, isn't it?

If my 14 year old DS knows one thing it's that you treat people with respect-- and you sure as heck act respectfully women-- starting with mom. ("Excuse me, but your behavior/ attitude is unacceptable. I am an adult, a woman, your mother, and most importantly a human being. Please adjust your attitude and try again.")

And if there is one thing I hate having to teach 12 year old DD, it's that she can't trust that a man will treat her with respect. Because tomorrow's men are being raised by the men who come on DCUM today and talk about looking out for #1 and how women who drank (wore a short skirt, wore a sexy outfit, went out in a date with them, was alone with them in a secluded place, etc., etc.) was asking for it.