Anonymous wrote:The Trump admin now requires SNAP recipients to prove they are actively searching for a job to receive benefits. Better go job hunting DCUM!

Anonymous wrote:The Trump admin now requires SNAP recipients to prove they are actively searching for a job to receive benefits. Better go job hunting DCUM!

Anonymous wrote:The Trump admin now requires SNAP recipients to prove they are actively searching for a job to receive benefits. Better go job hunting DCUM!

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Anonymous wrote:Some people even got tattoos years ago and then fell on hard times and qualify for snap now. Weird that people are fixating on things that are not necessarily indicators of people's current level of need.

In a country like ours, nobody should go hungry. I can't imagine any person of genuine goodwill actually disagreeing with that statement. What is going on in this thread?

I think 95% agree with that statement. I certainly don’t want anyone to go hungry and support programs (public and private) to feed people.

However, I also believe that every individual is responsible for using their best efforts to feed themselves and their dependents before turning to government or others for assistance.

Obviously, many do and others cannot due to disability, age, etc. They should absolutely be supported.

But there’s also a portion of people (of all demographics) who don’t make that effort and/or persist in making awful life choices. The entire dispute comes down to how to deal with this group.

I get your sentiment but it's more work and cost to try to chase down and punish these people than to just provide a benefit trusting that it will be a safety net for the "right" people. If you are just interested in cost it's a no-brainer. But too many people are interested in ethics, "cheaters" and being hall monitors. I get it; it's human. But it's a scarcity view. We would do better to have a star trek plenty view.

I appreciate the point, but think we’re missing the forest for the trees. Big picture: entitlement programs (SS and Medicare in particular) are unsustainable and, if maintained at the current levels, will literally bankrupt the US.

SNAP is an inconsequential part of this, but the principle is the same: in order for society to function, everyone who is able to do so must take responsibility for themselves.

Of course we should have government support for those who can’t care for themselves, but we can and should enforce the principle to the extent possible. For the good of and indeed the survival of our society.

No. This country has enough wealth and resources to guarantee every single person a minimum floor of quality of life. Food, safe quality shelter, education, and healthcare. The money exists. What is unsustainable is average taxpayers subsidizing sub living wages, only for corporations to funnel money to the 1%, and for our government to funnel billions upon billions of dollars into the military industrial complex.

Every other western democracy has figured this out. It is not a matter of ability, it is a matter of will. We the people need to start demanding that our government start working for US again.

This is a dramatic oversimplification. First of all, those nations generally have lower growth and far higher unemployment than the US (see Spain to take just one example).

Second, they are able to do this only because of US military spending. We’re effectively subsidizing their defense. If we lowered our military spending, (a) it would make their models unsustainable, and (b) wouldn’t begin to pay for what you’re describing.

Is what you describe theoretically possible? Yes, in the short term, but the cost would be very high indeed and we as a whole would be far less wealthy.

And? Those same countries have higher quality of life. Being unemployed is not life-ruining in those countries. People and their lives can in fact matter more than dollars.

You are missing the fact that the reason they have this higher quality of life is because the U.S. pays for their defense. Billions and billions of dollars they should be paying for their military is being footed by the American taxpayer.

Maybe we could start by not making billions of dollars as a Trump handout to Argentina.

Anonymous wrote:Well this was our 4-Aces hand, but the traitors teamed up with Trump and caved to MAGA.

Now we will never know how effective it would have been to cut off the SNAP benefits; they literally snatched that lever right out of our hands, bastards!

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Anonymous wrote:Some people even got tattoos years ago and then fell on hard times and qualify for snap now. Weird that people are fixating on things that are not necessarily indicators of people's current level of need.

In a country like ours, nobody should go hungry. I can't imagine any person of genuine goodwill actually disagreeing with that statement. What is going on in this thread?

I think 95% agree with that statement. I certainly don’t want anyone to go hungry and support programs (public and private) to feed people.

However, I also believe that every individual is responsible for using their best efforts to feed themselves and their dependents before turning to government or others for assistance.

Obviously, many do and others cannot due to disability, age, etc. They should absolutely be supported.

But there’s also a portion of people (of all demographics) who don’t make that effort and/or persist in making awful life choices. The entire dispute comes down to how to deal with this group.

I get your sentiment but it's more work and cost to try to chase down and punish these people than to just provide a benefit trusting that it will be a safety net for the "right" people. If you are just interested in cost it's a no-brainer. But too many people are interested in ethics, "cheaters" and being hall monitors. I get it; it's human. But it's a scarcity view. We would do better to have a star trek plenty view.

I appreciate the point, but think we’re missing the forest for the trees. Big picture: entitlement programs (SS and Medicare in particular) are unsustainable and, if maintained at the current levels, will literally bankrupt the US.

SNAP is an inconsequential part of this, but the principle is the same: in order for society to function, everyone who is able to do so must take responsibility for themselves.

Of course we should have government support for those who can’t care for themselves, but we can and should enforce the principle to the extent possible. For the good of and indeed the survival of our society.

I think it’s the corporate and billionaire tax cuts that are unsustainable.

In principle, I have no problem whatsoever with taxing billionaires and corporations at much higher rates, and think there’s some room to do that.

However, in the modern global economy, there’s only so far you tax before they leave the US and/or are unable to compete. Too many easy, lower tax places with stable laws and systems offering opportunities to relocate.

And go where? Every other country they would want to go to will tax them more heavily than here. We can't keep allowing these people to hold society hostage.

Not entirely accurate, I’m afraid. Even with the OECD agreement on corporate tax rates, many nations deliberately keep corporate taxes low to attract foreign entities. How do you think Ireland attracted so many companies?

As for billionaires, they obviously have an embarrassment of choices.

Oh no! The people exploiting us, hoarding our resources, and buying our politicians might leave? How terrible!

Would I weep if Bezos and bimbo decamped? Not a single tear.

But that’s not the point: if you’re counting on revenue from taxing them, it’s not good for your bottom line.

And if you lose significant numbers of companies, then you’ve got even bigger problems.

We can build new companies. We don't need people here who want to exploit the population, not uplift it.

Yup, but if we overtax them, they won’t be built here and/or be able to sustain international competition.

I’m not trying to be snarky and again, I do generally favor higher taxes. But I also recognize that there are limits imposed by reality, and that this is not a panacea for magically changing QOL for most Americans.

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Anonymous wrote:We also need to stop incentivizing people to have additional children they can’t afford. Every human interest story I read that is designed to tug at my heart strings just exasperates me more. All these unemployed/underemployed parents with too many mouths to feed! “How on earth am I supposed to feed my 9 children on my PT McDonalds salary??” The fact that these people agree to be interviewed proves they accept zero responsibility for their current plight.

Oooh, I have some ideas...

Provide sex education in schools
Provide contraceptives
Make abortion save and legal.

Many generational welfare recipients actually want to have kids, we all know why.
Many poor people don’t have the executive function to use contraceptives unless they are like shipped to their home address and administered on the spot. If something requires the smallest effort it’s not done. I actually think this is key to poverty (besides social issues), poor executive function.
Lastly, many view abortion as a sin so it doesn’t help either

Yeah, we do “know why”: the need for childcare for working parents and elder care — neither of which is affordable on Walmart wages, unless they’re lucky enough to get subsidized services.

People on generational welfare don’t work at Walmart

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people even got tattoos years ago and then fell on hard times and qualify for snap now. Weird that people are fixating on things that are not necessarily indicators of people's current level of need.

In a country like ours, nobody should go hungry. I can't imagine any person of genuine goodwill actually disagreeing with that statement. What is going on in this thread?

I think 95% agree with that statement. I certainly don’t want anyone to go hungry and support programs (public and private) to feed people.

However, I also believe that every individual is responsible for using their best efforts to feed themselves and their dependents before turning to government or others for assistance.

Obviously, many do and others cannot due to disability, age, etc. They should absolutely be supported.

But there’s also a portion of people (of all demographics) who don’t make that effort and/or persist in making awful life choices. The entire dispute comes down to how to deal with this group.

I get your sentiment but it's more work and cost to try to chase down and punish these people than to just provide a benefit trusting that it will be a safety net for the "right" people. If you are just interested in cost it's a no-brainer. But too many people are interested in ethics, "cheaters" and being hall monitors. I get it; it's human. But it's a scarcity view. We would do better to have a star trek plenty view.

I appreciate the point, but think we’re missing the forest for the trees. Big picture: entitlement programs (SS and Medicare in particular) are unsustainable and, if maintained at the current levels, will literally bankrupt the US.

SNAP is an inconsequential part of this, but the principle is the same: in order for society to function, everyone who is able to do so must take responsibility for themselves.

Of course we should have government support for those who can’t care for themselves, but we can and should enforce the principle to the extent possible. For the good of and indeed the survival of our society.

No. This country has enough wealth and resources to guarantee every single person a minimum floor of quality of life. Food, safe quality shelter, education, and healthcare. The money exists. What is unsustainable is average taxpayers subsidizing sub living wages, only for corporations to funnel money to the 1%, and for our government to funnel billions upon billions of dollars into the military industrial complex.

Every other western democracy has figured this out. It is not a matter of ability, it is a matter of will. We the people need to start demanding that our government start working for US again.

This is a dramatic oversimplification. First of all, those nations generally have lower growth and far higher unemployment than the US (see Spain to take just one example).

Second, they are able to do this only because of US military spending. We’re effectively subsidizing their defense. If we lowered our military spending, (a) it would make their models unsustainable, and (b) wouldn’t begin to pay for what you’re describing.

Is what you describe theoretically possible? Yes, in the short term, but the cost would be very high indeed and we as a whole would be far less wealthy.

And? Those same countries have higher quality of life. Being unemployed is not life-ruining in those countries. People and their lives can in fact matter more than dollars.

You are missing the fact that the reason they have this higher quality of life is because the U.S. pays for their defense. Billions and billions of dollars they should be paying for their military is being footed by the American taxpayer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people even got tattoos years ago and then fell on hard times and qualify for snap now. Weird that people are fixating on things that are not necessarily indicators of people's current level of need.

In a country like ours, nobody should go hungry. I can't imagine any person of genuine goodwill actually disagreeing with that statement. What is going on in this thread?

I think 95% agree with that statement. I certainly don’t want anyone to go hungry and support programs (public and private) to feed people.

However, I also believe that every individual is responsible for using their best efforts to feed themselves and their dependents before turning to government or others for assistance.

Obviously, many do and others cannot due to disability, age, etc. They should absolutely be supported.

But there’s also a portion of people (of all demographics) who don’t make that effort and/or persist in making awful life choices. The entire dispute comes down to how to deal with this group.

I get your sentiment but it's more work and cost to try to chase down and punish these people than to just provide a benefit trusting that it will be a safety net for the "right" people. If you are just interested in cost it's a no-brainer. But too many people are interested in ethics, "cheaters" and being hall monitors. I get it; it's human. But it's a scarcity view. We would do better to have a star trek plenty view.

I appreciate the point, but think we’re missing the forest for the trees. Big picture: entitlement programs (SS and Medicare in particular) are unsustainable and, if maintained at the current levels, will literally bankrupt the US.

SNAP is an inconsequential part of this, but the principle is the same: in order for society to function, everyone who is able to do so must take responsibility for themselves.

Of course we should have government support for those who can’t care for themselves, but we can and should enforce the principle to the extent possible. For the good of and indeed the survival of our society.

Why can other countries take care of their citizens without collapsing, then? How do they do the impossible?

They make trade-offs: more social support, but higher unemployment and lower overall growth (meaning less overall wealth and prosperity). They’ve also been able to minimize defense spending bc of the security provided by the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We also need to stop incentivizing people to have additional children they can’t afford. Every human interest story I read that is designed to tug at my heart strings just exasperates me more. All these unemployed/underemployed parents with too many mouths to feed! “How on earth am I supposed to feed my 9 children on my PT McDonalds salary??” The fact that these people agree to be interviewed proves they accept zero responsibility for their current plight.

Oooh, I have some ideas...

Provide sex education in schools
Provide contraceptives
Make abortion save and legal.

Many generational welfare recipients actually want to have kids, we all know why.
Many poor people don’t have the executive function to use contraceptives unless they are like shipped to their home address and administered on the spot. If something requires the smallest effort it’s not done. I actually think this is key to poverty (besides social issues), poor executive function.
Lastly, many view abortion as a sin so it doesn’t help either

Yeah, we do “know why”: the need for childcare for working parents and elder care — neither of which is affordable on Walmart wages, unless they’re lucky enough to get subsidized services.