I see a lot of people speculating that teachers just don't care about x or parents just don't care about y. Who cares about what is not the issue. We all have boundaries in our lives, things we will not tolerate. It is pretty rare that conversation with other people changes those boundaries. Further, we cannot force other people to change to suit our own needs. I know life would be easier that way, but people can only control their own actions, not others.

So, given the above, a lot of teachers have boundaries for what it will take for them to feel safe. There are a lot of reasons why teachers have those boundaries, and it is really none of our business. They can absolutely care about the children, but feel the need to put themselves first. After all, no one on this planet is in charge of ensuring another neurotypical adult's well-being. The only person who can take care of you is you. In fact, teachers have been telling people for a long time pre-COVID that they care about their students, but they cannot solve the most pressing societal problems that interfere with student learning. No matter how much one loves teaching, at the end of the day it is a job and nothing more. Teachers can invest a lot in students, and it does not mean that administrators or the community will invest any more back in teachers.

I am not hearing teacher talk about whether they are willing to teach the kids of parents who have to work in person. I am hearing people say that they aren’t sending their kids back (which we know is not true. There are some.). Or that teachers have the right to decide.

I think they’re deliberately side-stepping this question because of what the answer implies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is that the teachers who are leaving the teaching profession are the ones who are best at it. Every veteran teacher I know is halfway out the door. A big part of it is that they don't trust the families in their schools to take COVID seriously.

I’m intrigued. Do the veteran teachers care about kids whose parents have to work in person? Do they argue that people who don’t quit their jobs if their jobs are in person aren’t taking COVID seriously? I know that sounds like a gotcha asshole question, but I have known people that suggest that parents should do that to help teachers.

Also....like really? It kind of sounds like teachers don’t want to be around the poors.

You're missing the point. You think they're making a choice about the children. They're making a choice about themselves. Teachers leaving their jobs have decided that their health is more important than your child's education. That's their right to make that choice. You can care about your child's education but you shouldn't expect someone else to care more about it than their own health and safety.

I would make the same choice as them and I am a parent. I am capable of understanding that my personal health is more important than some other person's child's education.

No, I 100% don't think teachers are talking about the children. I think they are making up some risk preferences that don't stand up to scrutiny. If they really are concerned about their risks of catching covid, then they won't want to teach at schools with kids whose parents who work in person. You don't hear them saying that, so I don't believe they are actually concerned about covid risk. Or they realize just how horrible it sounds to say "I don't want to teach the poors". If its not about actual risk, the motivation seems to be to judge parents against whatever their standards of virus morality are.

+1

^^^Edit: Their real or imagined *risks*, not *feelings*.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I do not trust the parents of my students. I have been diligently teaching every class period on my schedule virtually, so I have had a lot of interaction with my students. I have seen the foreign and domestic holidays and the large gatherings of multiple households of kids and parents. The parents don’t give a damn about my health, they just want their kids in school and will then continue to do whatever the hell they want, because they want to, whether or not it flies in the face of social distancing and safety protocol.

Before you say I am lazy, I am a teacher who has taught every one of my classes virtually for the full length of the clas periods and I have done hours of small group support and tutoring of students who need it throughout the pandemic. But this site and my experience in the pandemic have shown me that to parents I am a low value person whose health is a worthy sacrifice for your desire to have your kid back in person while you continue to flout distancing and travel guidelines.

Yes, I should get out of teaching if I feel this way, and I will do so as soon as I find an exit strategy and new career. The parents have soured me on my profession: I have read all the vitriol and hate here, and I Know very well what you think of me, a lowly teacher.

We have traveled locally, mostly remote cabins or AirBnBs. The couple of times we have had other people with us indoors was whenever one got tested and took all precautions to ensure safety. I'd be disappointed if our teachers judge us on it without giving any attention to our circumstances. The teachers are acting as if keeping the kids at home is completely safe. It's not, not after a year of being at home! The kids are suffering, and it's a shame you can't see that and blame the parents for doing what they have to. And our lifestyle is going to be different if the kids start going to school. Our pod has kids from different schools, of course, we'll limit that interaction as these kids start to interact and be in different circles. Why are you comparing the behavior when people are at home to what they'll start doing when the kids are in school? And remember you'll be vaccinated, those kids are not. So I don't know where you get the notion that all the risk is yours and none for the families involved? How much value are you placing on the families of your students?

Teachers are entitled to place a higher value on their health than their concern about your child's education. If you don't like it then you can do something else. But no teacher should prioritize your concerns over their own.

Of course. Teachers can look at what they perceive as risks and make choices accordingly. Soon, that choice will be to either get vaccinated and go in, or quit. Right now there are other options. I personally wouldn't blame them if they wanted to quit; I have no control over their real or imagined feelings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is that the teachers who are leaving the teaching profession are the ones who are best at it. Every veteran teacher I know is halfway out the door. A big part of it is that they don't trust the families in their schools to take COVID seriously.

I’m intrigued. Do the veteran teachers care about kids whose parents have to work in person? Do they argue that people who don’t quit their jobs if their jobs are in person aren’t taking COVID seriously? I know that sounds like a gotcha asshole question, but I have known people that suggest that parents should do that to help teachers.

Also....like really? It kind of sounds like teachers don’t want to be around the poors.

You're missing the point. You think they're making a choice about the children. They're making a choice about themselves. Teachers leaving their jobs have decided that their health is more important than your child's education. That's their right to make that choice. You can care about your child's education but you shouldn't expect someone else to care more about it than their own health and safety.

I would make the same choice as them and I am a parent. I am capable of understanding that my personal health is more important than some other person's child's education.

No, I 100% don't think teachers are talking about the children. I think they are making up some risk preferences that don't stand up to scrutiny. If they really are concerned about their risks of catching covid, then they won't want to teach at schools with kids whose parents who work in person. You don't hear them saying that, so I don't believe they are actually concerned about covid risk. Or they realize just how horrible it sounds to say "I don't want to teach the poors". If its not about actual risk, the motivation seems to be to judge parents against whatever their standards of virus morality are.

??? I don't think you understand... The children in POOR families are the ones who ARE NOT registering for hybrid or concurrent; the children in MIDDLE CLASS families are the ones who ARE registering for hybrid or concurrent.

If you're framing this as a battle of the poor versus the middle class then you're on the wrong team because the data from high FARMS schools validates that the low SES children want to stay DL. The middle class families are the ones advocating RTS. So teachers are making the same choices that the poor kids are. It is the mean mommies in the middle class families who are trying to force teachers to do things they think are unsafe.

Ooo it's SHOUTING TIME!

We are talking about teacher perceptions, which really have little to do with reality. It really doesn't matter to the point that poor parents are sending their kids back to IPL at lower rates than high-SES households. There are gonna be some poor kids with parents who work in person, and those kids are going to be in the classroom. However, you don't see teachers freaking about the risk that these kids carry. So it's not about risk being higher. It's about risk that they deem acceptable based on their judgments of the behavior of others.

(Sidenote: I don't think the WOTP people count as "middle class," and that's who you are referencing.)

The 20% of children who are currently back in person at DCPS are low-income and high needs. Are they real, or are they just cancelled out of the equation somehow because they are poor?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is that the teachers who are leaving the teaching profession are the ones who are best at it. Every veteran teacher I know is halfway out the door. A big part of it is that they don't trust the families in their schools to take COVID seriously.

It's a bunch of bs that they believe they get to decide what is safe or unsafe. Good riddance.

Wait...you mean you don't get to decide what is safe or unsafe for you? You're not allowed to make your own determination for your safety, EVER? Really??? Huh.

Well with regards to teachers you're going to be getting what you think you want. I hope it works out for you the way you've planned. I think you're in for a big surprise and it isn't going to be happy.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I do not trust the parents of my students. I have been diligently teaching every class period on my schedule virtually, so I have had a lot of interaction with my students. I have seen the foreign and domestic holidays and the large gatherings of multiple households of kids and parents. The parents don’t give a damn about my health, they just want their kids in school and will then continue to do whatever the hell they want, because they want to, whether or not it flies in the face of social distancing and safety protocol.

Before you say I am lazy, I am a teacher who has taught every one of my classes virtually for the full length of the clas periods and I have done hours of small group support and tutoring of students who need it throughout the pandemic. But this site and my experience in the pandemic have shown me that to parents I am a low value person whose health is a worthy sacrifice for your desire to have your kid back in person while you continue to flout distancing and travel guidelines.

Yes, I should get out of teaching if I feel this way, and I will do so as soon as I find an exit strategy and new career. The parents have soured me on my profession: I have read all the vitriol and hate here, and I Know very well what you think of me, a lowly teacher.

We have traveled locally, mostly remote cabins or AirBnBs. The couple of times we have had other people with us indoors was whenever one got tested and took all precautions to ensure safety. I'd be disappointed if our teachers judge us on it without giving any attention to our circumstances. The teachers are acting as if keeping the kids at home is completely safe. It's not, not after a year of being at home! The kids are suffering, and it's a shame you can't see that and blame the parents for doing what they have to. And our lifestyle is going to be different if the kids start going to school. Our pod has kids from different schools, of course, we'll limit that interaction as these kids start to interact and be in different circles. Why are you comparing the behavior when people are at home to what they'll start doing when the kids are in school? And remember you'll be vaccinated, those kids are not. So I don't know where you get the notion that all the risk is yours and none for the families involved? How much value are you placing on the families of your students?

Teachers are entitled to place a higher value on their health than their concern about your child's education. If you don't like it then you can do something else. But no teacher should prioritize your concerns over their own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is that the teachers who are leaving the teaching profession are the ones who are best at it. Every veteran teacher I know is halfway out the door. A big part of it is that they don't trust the families in their schools to take COVID seriously.

I’m intrigued. Do the veteran teachers care about kids whose parents have to work in person? Do they argue that people who don’t quit their jobs if their jobs are in person aren’t taking COVID seriously? I know that sounds like a gotcha asshole question, but I have known people that suggest that parents should do that to help teachers.

Also....like really? It kind of sounds like teachers don’t want to be around the poors.

You're missing the point. You think they're making a choice about the children. They're making a choice about themselves. Teachers leaving their jobs have decided that their health is more important than your child's education. That's their right to make that choice. You can care about your child's education but you shouldn't expect someone else to care more about it than their own health and safety.

I would make the same choice as them and I am a parent. I am capable of understanding that my personal health is more important than some other person's child's education.

No, I 100% don't think teachers are talking about the children. I think they are making up some risk preferences that don't stand up to scrutiny. If they really are concerned about their risks of catching covid, then they won't want to teach at schools with kids whose parents who work in person. You don't hear them saying that, so I don't believe they are actually concerned about covid risk. Or they realize just how horrible it sounds to say "I don't want to teach the poors". If its not about actual risk, the motivation seems to be to judge parents against whatever their standards of virus morality are.

??? I don't think you understand... The children in POOR families are the ones who ARE NOT registering for hybrid or concurrent; the children in MIDDLE CLASS families are the ones who ARE registering for hybrid or concurrent.

If you're framing this as a battle of the poor versus the middle class then you're on the wrong team because the data from high FARMS schools validates that the low SES children want to stay DL. The middle class families are the ones advocating RTS. So teachers are making the same choices that the poor kids are. It is the mean mommies in the middle class families who are trying to force teachers to do things they think are unsafe.

Anonymous wrote:No, I do not trust the parents of my students. I have been diligently teaching every class period on my schedule virtually, so I have had a lot of interaction with my students. I have seen the foreign and domestic holidays and the large gatherings of multiple households of kids and parents. The parents don’t give a damn about my health, they just want their kids in school and will then continue to do whatever the hell they want, because they want to, whether or not it flies in the face of social distancing and safety protocol.

Before you say I am lazy, I am a teacher who has taught every one of my classes virtually for the full length of the clas periods and I have done hours of small group support and tutoring of students who need it throughout the pandemic. But this site and my experience in the pandemic have shown me that to parents I am a low value person whose health is a worthy sacrifice for your desire to have your kid back in person while you continue to flout distancing and travel guidelines.

Yes, I should get out of teaching if I feel this way, and I will do so as soon as I find an exit strategy and new career. The parents have soured me on my profession: I have read all the vitriol and hate here, and I Know very well what you think of me, a lowly teacher.

We have traveled locally, mostly remote cabins or AirBnBs. The couple of times we have had other people with us indoors was whenever one got tested and took all precautions to ensure safety. I'd be disappointed if our teachers judge us on it without giving any attention to our circumstances. The teachers are acting as if keeping the kids at home is completely safe. It's not, not after a year of being at home! The kids are suffering, and it's a shame you can't see that and blame the parents for doing what they have to. And our lifestyle is going to be different if the kids start going to school. Our pod has kids from different schools, of course, we'll limit that interaction as these kids start to interact and be in different circles. Why are you comparing the behavior when people are at home to what they'll start doing when the kids are in school? And remember you'll be vaccinated, those kids are not. So I don't know where you get the notion that all the risk is yours and none for the families involved? How much value are you placing on the families of your students?

Anonymous wrote:See the thread “why did we ever send sick kids to school?” A parent literally just claimed that her child with a cough or a low grade fever is entitled to attend school. This is one of the major reasons I went remote this year after starting in person. I realized people wouldn’t alter their behavior even after hundreds of thousands of viral deaths.

I was that poster. I said that pre-pandemic a child with a low grade fever or a cough is entitled to attend school at every school that my children have ever attended. This is not the case during the pandemic.

Teachers have the vaccine now so this should really put a lot of these fears and judgments to rest.

See the thread “why did we ever send sick kids to school?” A parent literally just claimed that her child with a cough or a low grade fever is entitled to attend school. This is one of the major reasons I went remote this year after starting in person. I realized people wouldn’t alter their behavior even after hundreds of thousands of viral deaths.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is that the teachers who are leaving the teaching profession are the ones who are best at it. Every veteran teacher I know is halfway out the door. A big part of it is that they don't trust the families in their schools to take COVID seriously.

I’m intrigued. Do the veteran teachers care about kids whose parents have to work in person? Do they argue that people who don’t quit their jobs if their jobs are in person aren’t taking COVID seriously? I know that sounds like a gotcha asshole question, but I have known people that suggest that parents should do that to help teachers.

Also....like really? It kind of sounds like teachers don’t want to be around the poors.

You're missing the point. You think they're making a choice about the children. They're making a choice about themselves. Teachers leaving their jobs have decided that their health is more important than your child's education. That's their right to make that choice. You can care about your child's education but you shouldn't expect someone else to care more about it than their own health and safety.

I would make the same choice as them and I am a parent. I am capable of understanding that my personal health is more important than some other person's child's education.

If you are making this argument now, you're about 10 months too late. But if you were slow to understand the implications of accepting your contract of employment this year, by all means, decline the new one for the next school year if it is offered to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is that the teachers who are leaving the teaching profession are the ones who are best at it. Every veteran teacher I know is halfway out the door. A big part of it is that they don't trust the families in their schools to take COVID seriously.

I’m intrigued. Do the veteran teachers care about kids whose parents have to work in person? Do they argue that people who don’t quit their jobs if their jobs are in person aren’t taking COVID seriously? I know that sounds like a gotcha asshole question, but I have known people that suggest that parents should do that to help teachers.

Also....like really? It kind of sounds like teachers don’t want to be around the poors.

Yes, PP, that's exactly right. You hear this attitude in places where parents are more affluent- have access to work-from-home policies or where stay at home moms are the norm.